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Is it really vegan?

1K views 10 replies 6 participants last post by  veggiepeace 
#1 ·
So my two best friends, due to my years of influence of being vegan, have in the past few months gone vegan, or at least I think that have except for one small issue that keeps bugging me that I have on a couple of occasions talked to them about.

They certainly don't buy non vegan food or other items for themselves or consume them, but one of my best friends has an issue with buying his brother food that isn't vegan. Usually what will happen is that he will be going to the grocery store and his older brother will give him money and request that he buy him something such as ice cream, Doritos's chips, etc. My friend, though he considers himself a vegan will buy these things for his brother if he asks.

He's not consuming them or buying them for himself, but he still is buying them and in a sense making sure that money goes to the very industries he's supposed to be against.

I've talked to him a couple of times about it, and for a while I thought I got through to him and recently I found him doing the same thing, and I don't think he really even thinks about it or realizes the conflict here.

Do you all think that it's unacceptable for a vegan to be buying obviously non vegan things for others, such as those in your family? It's bothers me a lot, especially since he wants to get involved in Vegan activism. I know his intentions are good and that he means well, but I feel that this might be an issue if he wants to be a true vegan. I think that he feels pressured to buy things for his brother because it might cause conflict within his family if he refuses to do so.

I have also thought that it may create a big issue for him if he gets involved in activism and then gets caught buying something non vegan. I've explained things a couple of times to him but apparently he's just not getting it, any suggestions?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Honestly, I think it's time for you to let this go. You've talked to him about it, he's presumably thought about it, and he's chosen to continue doing what he's doing.

He's still vegan, and he's not using his own money to buy his brother these items. I don't think it's up to you or anyone else to "catch" him buying something not-vegan. It's not our job to police other people's ways of living compassionately. By going vegan and wanting to get into activism, he's made a huge life change, and remember that it may not be one his family members completely support. If this minor action keeps the peace and he doesn't feel it violates his ethics, he's free to continue. He's already doing so much more for the animals and the planet than 95% of the people out there.

I think it's much better for you to decide to make peace with this, rather than continue making it an issue between the two of you and possibly harm your friendship, or diminish his enthusiasm for compassionate living.

But I'm a fairly recent vegan myself, so I'll be interested to see what others have to say.
 
#3 ·
I've been a mostly whole food plant-based vegan for almost 3 years now, who also helps care for my elderly mom, who still chooses the standard American diet fare more often than not.

I sometimes have to purchase items I normally wouldn't buy and go into places I refuse to patronize in my day to day life. It simply is what it is for each individual.

Your applying pressure in that manner isn't going to change their life circumstances. Tread kindly when sharing information and continue to be a good example through your own actions. That's the most effective means of inspiring change, it seems.
 
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#4 ·
Quite frankly, if I were your friend I would probably continue on my vegan journey without you!
Vegans are somewhere around 1% of the general populace, more or less dependant on area, and trying to be that strict about what it means is not going to entice anyone to listen.
When they're shopping for someone it gives them some opportunity to add in things that happen to be vegan and point it out to then. I don't know that I'm responsible for anyone completely converting, but I do know i'm responsible for many reading labels and thinking about what they purchase, and making more veg meals.

Think more about what message is really helping to promote animal awareness and not just adherence to rules

One example I like to use is how many strict vegans have avoided and criticised Silk as being an unethical company with links to animal products. Silk has been like the biggest reason for ordinary people ditching dairy!
 
#5 ·
Do you all think that it's unacceptable for a vegan to be buying obviously non vegan things for others, such as those in your family?
Yes, it is unacceptable to purchase non-vegan items for others and then call yourself a vegan.

If you buy a non-vegan item, even for someone else, you are facilitating the funding of animal abuse. Therefore, a true vegan would not make non-vegan purchases for anyone.
 
#6 · (Edited)
People become vegan because they are inwardly inspired to do so. If new vegans stop supporting their omni families, this is a pushing-away, not an inspiration. It can take months, or years, for people to commit to veganism - it's not cool to expect others to convert according to our time schedule.

Necter, I'd like to see you offer more education and encouragement, instead of always telling people that they're not "real vegans". Here is an analogy. I was never inspired by the Christians that yelled at people and called them sinners. I've only been inspired by Christians (and Buddhists, and other spiritual people) who were interested in inspiring the compassion, peace, and social progress of humanity.
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#7 ·
Thanks everyone for the replies. I'll try and address the points made in this one post. First, let me say that I'm really quite puzzled as to why most of these replies are attacking me and acting like I'm harassing my friend and trying to "catch" him doing something. Nothing I said eluded to such an idea. First, common sense: If I was like this, do you think that my friends would have become vegans just from being around me? Secondly, When I've discussed this with him in the past, I've done so in a very kind and non aggressive way and just tried to explain why it might not be the best thing to do.

Why everyone all of a sudden starting acting like I was some horrible person is completely beyond me, one person even saying that if they were in my friends position, they would go on with their vegan journey without me.......... really??

I understand that some people are in a unique situation due to their family influence, and thus why I asked for others opinions here. Necter responded and said something along the lines of my own thoughts, which is simply that my friend is "making sure" or facilitating the fact that these industries get paid money.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm the only one who would find it odd to go to an activism event and then on the way home buy their brother ice cream just because they don't want to to it themselves. This certainly doesn't seem to align with veganism to me. It's not about "following rules" as one person eluded to, it's the fact that our purchases and actions have direct impacts on animals. So whether or not we are buying something for ourselves or for someone else, they slaughter or exploit the animal just the same.

I certainly don't claim to be the all knowing authority of veganism, but isn't not buying animal products like the number 1 rule of veganism and the entire point of it? Honestly, buying these things is way worse than eating them. Eating them within itself doesn't really do anything, it's the economic support that keeps it going.

Perhaps the best thing for me to do, is to be thankful that my friend has at least stopped buying animal products for himself and hopefully over time he can not purchase them for others due to peer pressure.

Any thoughts that are not merely a knee jerk emotional reaction towards me, are more than welcome.
 
#8 ·
I did not mean to personally attack you, I was generalizing how I would feel towards a situation like you describe.
To me, the greatest achievement of any vegan is to further the goal of reducing animal suffering. A vegan who shops for omnis has far more impact on spreading a positive, practical view on being vegan. It isn't as if those products wouldn't be purchased anyway, but by being the one involved they have the ability to purchase like items that happen to be vegan. So, yeah, they can have even more impact in reducing the number of animal products. Of course there's also the thing about not being seen as a nut job, but instead someone people want to engage with, want their recipes and every day suggestions.

I don't even know that you're the reason these people went vegan or not. I'm simply responding to the general idea of telling someone they're not vegan if purchase non vegan items. Like, you know, cars, and homes, computers, non organic cotton clothing.....
 
#11 ·
Thank you for your reply. My friend doesn't buy any vegan items for his brother, at least nothing intentionally. He just picks up non vegan food items that his brother doesn't want to go get himself. I never stated that I was going to or did tell my friend that he wasn't vegan. My biggest concern is that I think my friend is genuine and wants to get involved in vegan activism, and he might get into some uncomfortable situations if he's buying obviously non vegan food items. I know I'm not the only vegan who would see an issue with this or at least be concerned.

When I said that I was the reason they went vegan, let me clarify. The truth itself is what caused them to go vegan, however it was I through positive influence over a couple of years that caused them to be exposed to this truth and to dispel ideas they had before. Otherwise there would be no other influence that would cause this. This is basically activism at a grass roots level, influencing family and friends to go vegan.

I do think that there are some grey areas in veganism that are worth discussing or perhaps don't make too much of a difference for the animals at the end of the day. However, there must be a limit or a line in the sand somewhere or else veganism isn't a practical philosophy that we can actually follow simply because no one could even define what it is. I think that buying meat, dairy, and eggs has to be in the discussion of where that line is.

I understand that perhaps these food items may be bought anyway, but that doesn't justify us buying them. No more than you would buy drugs for someone because they would go and do it anyway. If we're vegans, I would think that we should oppose the support of these industries and not help facilitate their profit.

I found this to be an interesting subject and perhaps one of those grey areas of veganism worth talking aobut. Thank you for the discussion
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hi veggiepeace,

Your reasoning is good! However, it's important to avoid alienating new vegans who are doing their best to minimize animal suffering. If a new vegan feels obligated to continue buying animal products for their omnivorous family members, it might not be a good idea to berate them over this.

If a new vegan is doing their best, and you criticize them, then that person's resulting shame/anger might cause them to leave veganism. Even worse, this ex-vegan might become a resentful and vocal critic of the vegan community. There are a number of these angry ex-vegans on YouTube.

On the other hand, if a new vegan is telling other people inaccurate information about veganism, that is a good time to intervene. Even a well-meaning vegan can cause harm, if they are giving out misinformed vegan nutrition information.

You're doing the right thing, veggiepeace! Maybe just add a little more patience towards the new vegans around you.

Thank you for joining us here.
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#10 ·
I hope you didn't take my post as attacking you. I didn't mean to at all, and I admire your level of commitment to not consuming or facilitating others' consumption of animal products.

I just know that it took me a long time to become fully committed to veganism, and I would have been very discouraged if another vegan person I knew (I think your friend is very privileged to have you!) was insistent that I was doing it wrong after I made the commitment.

So not an attack at all, just another perspective. I hope this is clearer than my original post.
 
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