Palm Oil - VeggieBoards

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#1 Old 01-24-2017, 12:06 AM
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Palm Oil

Is the debate about palm oil based on opinion or fact? Many sources say palm oil is vegan, and it's used in vegan products. Others argue palm oil can't be vegan, since it harms animals...but does it always? Isn't Earth Balance palm oil sustainable?

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#2 Old 01-27-2017, 02:17 PM
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Not many things these days can be considered truly vegan.

I know I've used this example in the past without much success, but not many people know that ridiculous numbers of fish and other organisms are killed through power generation. So, turning on your lights/computer/having that refrigerator run all day long--not that vegan. If you only look at the electricity inside your house, it's probably vegan. If you look at it from cradle-to-grave, not so much.

What I'm trying to get to is this: I would guess that it depends on how it's being harvested, how you define vegan, and how the company defines vegan.

Someone just recently posted asking about the glue and ink on shipping envelopes. Should you also be concerned about the animals that are hit and killed from these courier drivers? What about the trees that are harvested for the paper in the envelope--undoubtedly they housed birds and other small animals? Or the fuel that's extracted for the vehicles to run--that creates pollution?

It all depends on the scope of your problem.
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#3 Old 02-01-2017, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailFin View Post
Not many things these days can be considered truly vegan.

I know I've used this example in the past without much success, but not many people know that ridiculous numbers of fish and other organisms are killed through power generation. So, turning on your lights/computer/having that refrigerator run all day long--not that vegan. If you only look at the electricity inside your house, it's probably vegan. If you look at it from cradle-to-grave, not so much.

What I'm trying to get to is this: I would guess that it depends on how it's being harvested, how you define vegan, and how the company defines vegan.

Someone just recently posted asking about the glue and ink on shipping envelopes. Should you also be concerned about the animals that are hit and killed from these courier drivers? What about the trees that are harvested for the paper in the envelope--undoubtedly they housed birds and other small animals? Or the fuel that's extracted for the vehicles to run--that creates pollution?

It all depends on the scope of your problem.
Yeah I agree with you mostly, but I live in a house with solar panels and try to charge my phone at the building that has solar panels at school and this is an option for people, especially the middle middle class and higher income brackets (the more people do it, the more affordable solar will become) ...on the other hand I know windmills sometimes kill birds, but in the big picture kill less animals than fossil fuel harvesting and pollution.

I know there are so many trade offs, trade offs which are sometimes out of reach for working or lower middle class people, and I try to be as mindful as I possibly can, so I wanted other people's input on palm oil, because environmental organizations seem to think boycotting is extremist, and not especially helpful, but there could always be some compelling argument I'm missing (and no, Earth Balance coming in a plastic tub isn't one, since I can opt for the buttery sticks in cardboard, and aluminum wrappers).

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#4 Old 02-01-2017, 09:35 PM
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Vegans don't eat wear or otherwise use animal/fish products. Palm oil is not made in this way, but over production is devastating environments on which many endangered species rely. Our presence on the planet of course is doing that, so when you get to these secondary effects it is a question of minimising your toxic foot print. Do you need to use palm oil in or for anything. NO. People like earth balance because it works like a butter substitute, a guilt free (!) way of pretending to yourself you are eating an animal product. That does not feel honest or ethical to me. PS- the other reason palm oil is favoured is for its preservative value, but if you eat fresh/dried produce you don't need that. If you live off vegan junk food however......
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#5 Old 02-17-2017, 10:17 AM
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I would suggest you examine the reasons you are vegan and then decide. I personally consider palm oil to be unethical and, therefore, I do not use products that contain it.
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#6 Old 02-17-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sophe View Post
. People like earth balance because it works like a butter substitute, a guilt free (!) way of pretending to yourself you are eating an animal product. That does not feel honest or ethical to me.
I've never been able to understand the logic of this. Does Earth Balance come from animals or harm animals? No. Why do I as a vegan need to feel guilty? When I use stuff like it, thinking of an animal never enters my head. When I pour Rice Dream on my cereals, the last thing on my mind is the image of a cow. Maybe I should eat dry bread/dry cereals, to prove what? - I don't know. I don't feel guilty either when I eat a chocolate Easter "egg", or a gingerbread "man" if both are suitable for vegans.
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Last edited by leedsveg; 02-17-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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#7 Old 02-17-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by leedsveg View Post
I've never been able to understand the logic of this. Does Earth Balance come from animals or harm animals? No. Why do I as a vegan need to feel guilty? When I use stuff like it, thinking of an animal never enters my head. When I pour Rice Dream on my cereals, the last thing on my mind is the image of a cow. Maybe I should eat dry bread/dry cereals, to prove what? - I don't know. I don't feel guilty either when I eat a chocolate Easter "egg", or a gingerbread "man" if both are suitable for vegans.
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Oh come now, they laid out the reasons pretty well, in what you didn't use in the quote--
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophe View Post
Vegans don't eat wear or otherwise use animal/fish products. Palm oil is not made in this way, but over production is devastating environments on which many endangered species rely. Our presence on the planet of course is doing that, so when you get to these secondary effects it is a question of minimising your toxic foot print. Do you need to use palm oil in or for anything. NO. People like earth balance because it works like a butter substitute, a guilt free (!) way of pretending to yourself you are eating an animal product. That does not feel honest or ethical to me. PS- the other reason palm oil is favoured is for its preservative value, but if you eat fresh/dried produce you don't need that. If you live off vegan junk food however......
I can't say I completely avoid palm oil, but it is important to keep sustainable agriculture in mind. I make an effort to buy fair trade/rainforest alliance chocolate and coffee. Those choices force me to limit how much I consume, and I'm not 100% in buying those ethical products, or avoiding palm oil, but it's important to at least be aware of their impact

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#8 Old 02-17-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by silva View Post
Oh come now, they laid out the reasons pretty well, in what you didn't use in the quote--
Ooops mea culpa! Yes I neglected to consider the palm oil in Earth Balance which is exactly what kjel was talking about. My apologies to kjel for totally ignoring the valid point they were making.

I must try to read posts more carefully in future.

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#9 Old 02-17-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by leedsveg View Post
Ooops mea culpa! Yes I neglected to consider the palm oil in Earth Balance which is exactly what kjel was talking about. My apologies to kjel for totally ignoring the valid point they were making.

I must try to read posts more carefully in future.

Leedsveg
It didn't sound like your usual response!

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#10 Old 02-17-2017, 08:19 PM
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I wouldn't use palm oil even if I wasn't a veggie. I LOVE orangutans and their habitat is being destroyed by the plantations, also the smoke from burning the forests is polluting the whole area. It is making people sick.

It is GREED, just human greed with out conscience or caring for people or for a myriad of animals..

It my or may not be vegan but it sure as hell is WRONG.

If it was being grown like shade grown coffee in the forest it would not even be an issue.

Got to go now - can't see properly, can't type properly or I would have more to say (have had to fix dozens of mistakes in just these few lines)

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." - Leonardo Da Vinci, Italian Painter, Sculptor, Architect, Musician, Engineer, and Scientist
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