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#1 Old 03-21-2016, 02:05 AM
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Are you moving to Vegan or Vegetarian diet?

Are you moving to Vegan or Vegetarian diet?
Here are just some of the things you should avoid when starting your diet
.

1) Depending only on highly processed fake meats and soy for proteins.

2) Taking too long to/not supplement on vitamin B12.

3) The superman attitude.

4) "I can get all nutrients from food" attitude.

5) Nutritional Information ignorance : Assuming that USDA databases or other nutrition facts give the content of what's actually in the food, fresh or packaged.

6) "Because plants are plants, and that is the best thing that exists in the world." Okay, let's stop at that.

Happy to talk more on the subject!
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#2 Old 03-21-2016, 02:50 AM
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Hi devonfoodie and welcome

So how long have you been vegetarian?
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#3 Old 03-21-2016, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by devonfoodie View Post
Are you moving to Vegan or Vegetarian diet?
Here are just some of the things you should avoid when starting your diet
.

1) Depending only on highly processed fake meats and soy for proteins.
While it's best for everyone to minimize processed foods, they're often prevalent on omnis diet and no worse, actually better, as vegan foods. Being vegan does no exclude processed foods
2) Taking too long to/not supplement on vitamin B12.
Agreed
3) The superman attitude.
I don't even understand this one

4) "I can get all nutrients from food" attitude.
Other than B12 from whole foods, yes, yes you can
5) Nutritional Information ignorance : Assuming that USDA databases or other nutrition facts give the content of what's actually in the food, fresh or packaged.
the usda is the standard for labeling. I don't know of any better research. Sources?
6) "Because plants are plants, and that is the best thing that exists in the world." Okay, let's stop at that.

??? What do you mean by that?
Happy to talk more on the subject!
Want to point out this is the vegan forum
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#4 Old 03-21-2016, 01:47 PM
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Over dependence on "subs" as in Boca or other meat-like products

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonfoodie View Post
Are you moving to Vegan or Vegetarian diet?
Here are just some of the things you should avoid when starting your diet
.

1) Depending only on highly processed fake meats and soy for proteins.

2) Taking too long to/not supplement on vitamin B12.

3) The superman attitude.

4) "I can get all nutrients from food" attitude.

5) Nutritional Information ignorance : Assuming that USDA databases or other nutrition facts give the content of what's actually in the food, fresh or packaged.

6) "Because plants are plants, and that is the best thing that exists in the world." Okay, let's stop at that.

Happy to talk more on the subject!
The big ones I see are an over dependence on "subs" as in Boca or other meat-like products. Simply put these products are ****, they are junk food. Like all junk food its fine to have them now and then...but if you are doing it multiple times a week you are doing something wrong.
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#5 Old 03-22-2016, 01:10 AM
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6) "Because plants are plants, and that is the best thing that exists in the world." Okay, let's stop at that.
Uhh ... What? I'm not sure what you're driving at with that one.

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#6 Old 03-22-2016, 02:12 AM
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Uhh ... What? I'm not sure what you're driving at with that one.
The benefit is HUGE already by eating the plants we get from the supermarket, there are still things we can improve, tomatoes are grown above-ground, they're sour and tasteless, so are more and more plants, that's a distaster for health and taste, plants grow on soil that is properly managed meaning minimally distured. We're not quite doing that and benefits on health have been observed when food, even vegan plant foods, are grown better than carelessly and in mass like they are now.


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#7 Old 03-22-2016, 01:15 PM
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The benefit is HUGE already by eating the plants we get from the supermarket, there are still things we can improve,
Ah, now I understand what you meant. And I largely agree, but there is a HUGE potential pitfall in implementation. Very often in the West (and thus in countries that aspire to Western consumerist prosperity) you end up with two distinct markets - one for high end 'gourmet' healthier products with higher production costs and less suitable for mass marketing, and one for perhaps less nutritive products friendlier to producer's bottom lines and more suitable for mass marketing. (This is all made more complicated by issues like food deserts and the influence of advertising ... Things get really complicated REALLY quickly)

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#8 Old 03-22-2016, 08:49 PM
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The big ones I see are an over dependence on "subs" as in Boca or other meat-like products. Simply put these products are ****, they are junk food. Like all junk food its fine to have them now and then...but if you are doing it multiple times a week you are doing something wrong.
For transitioning to veg*nism especially, these foods can be a real help. For example, I don't see anything wrong with throwing some gardein chikken teryaki in a vegetable stirfry served over brown rice.


Ingredients:
gardein™: water, soy protein isolate*, vital wheat gluten*, expeller pressed canola oil*, methylcellulose, organic ancient grain flour (KAMUT® khorasan wheat, amaranth, millet, quinoa), yeast extract, natural flavors (from plant sources), sea salt, potato starch, organic cane sugar, white distilled vinegar, organic soy sauce, color added, gum arabic, onion powder, garlic powder, pea protein, carrot fiber, beetroot fiber, paprika and turmeric extract. sauce: organic cane sugar, less sodium soy sauce (water, wheat, soybeans, salt, alcohol**, vinegar), salted sake (water, rice, salt), water, ginger puree, white distilled vinegar, dehydrated garlic, dehydrated onion, garlic powder, spices, xanthan gum, salt. *Non genetically engineered soybeans, wheat and canola. **Product contains less than 0.5% alcohol.
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#9 Old 03-23-2016, 02:57 AM
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Though I eat mostly whole foods, occasionally I will buy Field Roast vegan apple sausage and slice it and add it to sauteed savoy cabbage, fresh sliced apples, sauerkraut, cider vinegar, and caraway seed for a hot dish. My omni husband loves this vegan version of a classic I used to make with animal based sausage.

Or I will saute some Beyond Meat chik*n strips with fresh bell pepper, onion, tomato, zucchini, spices over brown rice or millet.

Another one for a picnic is vegan bocca burgers on a whole wheat bun (I like Rudi's organic bread or I make homemade yeast buns) with sliced tomato and onion and romaine, and on the side I make a homemade coleslaw (apple, raisin, white cabbage, onion, carrot, maple syrup/mustard/cider vinegar mixed together and poured into it; and ground black pepper). Maybe some homemade sweet potato fries.

Or when I am doing a 14 mile canoe day trip with some portage trails in there and carrying heavy packs and paddling all day, I rely on cliff bars for a source of calcium, iron, protein that is condensed and easy to eat on the go while paddling compared to say a raw salad), peanut butter, bananas, nuts, dried fruit, whole wheat tortilla with peanut butter, etc. I've even brought along some commercial vegan cookies like Lucy's or Pamela's for a snack/treat on the trail, and a boost of energy.

These are examples of how processed vegan foods can be incorporated from time to time into healthy whole foods and enjoyed without total reliance on it. And I am supporting vegan companies and/or products and encouraging alternatives to the cruelties of animal convenience products. Veganism is not about self deprivation and strict healthy eating only. Moderation is key, but shaming people for eating processed foods does not help our cause. They have their place.

Also, we have had many a debate on VB about what constitutes "junk food". Some processed foods can be beneficial (such as plant yogurts and milks, trail mix etc). Plant "meats" can provide a ready source of protein and satiety to someone who leads a busy lifestyle and maybe can't always cook or prepare beans and grains etc every night. Vegan commercial mayonnaise like Just Mayo, Vegannaise etc can really liven up a sandwich or potato salad or sauce that would otherwise be bland, and these products can help omnis see that a plant based diet is totally doable and beyond eating sprouts and raw fruit and leafy greens all the time.
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#10 Old 03-26-2016, 04:41 AM
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Another misconception, And this is applied to every diet is the concept of "cheating" If you're going vegetarian or Vegan and you "cheat" from time to time with Butter/Cheese/Meat then just don't do it. Diets shouldn't be something you have to cheat to. Remember, Diets are like relationships. You can't cheat and expect it to work.
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#11 Old 03-26-2016, 06:25 AM
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Another misconception, And this is applied to every diet is the concept of "cheating" If you're going vegetarian or Vegan and you "cheat" from time to time with Butter/Cheese/Meat then just don't do it. Diets shouldn't be something you have to cheat to. Remember, Diets are like relationships. You can't cheat and expect it to work.
I don't agree with "then just don't do it." I think every little bit helps. A person who eats plant based 50% of the time is doing something good for their health, and for reducing animal cruelty. Yes, 100% would be ideal, but not everybody is up for that. I say do the best you can and focus on progress rather than perfection.
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#12 Old 03-30-2016, 12:36 PM
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I don't agree with "then just don't do it." I think every little bit helps. A person who eats plant based 50% of the time is doing something good for their health, and for reducing animal cruelty. Yes, 100% would be ideal, but not everybody is up for that. I say do the best you can and focus on progress rather than perfection.


Your point is also right but many times that leads to people jumping the gun and gorging their cheat meal all day.
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#13 Old 03-31-2016, 11:14 AM
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The concept of 'cheating' is really kind of interesting, especially the stories people tell about it and the broader effects of these stories, especially perhaps unintended effects. The attitude towards 'cheating' is one of the real substantive differences between people more motivated by dietary/nutritional issues and people more motivated by political concerns. My wording there might look a little strange. We often talk in binaries like dietary/ethical, but that way of thinking is false in at least two ways - dietary motivation is better modeled as a continuous line, and dietary arguments are often grounded in morality.

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#14 Old 03-31-2016, 01:24 PM
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Newly Vegan

4 days in. My blood sugar has decreased three mornings in a row! What I'm having a hard time with is knowing whether a packaged product is vegan or not. Some packaged products say (vegan) in parenthesis right on the ingredient list, while others do not, even though the ingredients contain no animal products. It's hard to understand why a manufacturer wouldn't label vegan if it's vegan. I can't see how that could hurt sales. Any advice would be appreciated.
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#15 Old 03-31-2016, 02:39 PM
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4 days in. My blood sugar has decreased three mornings in a row! What I'm having a hard time with is knowing whether a packaged product is vegan or not. Some packaged products say (vegan) in parenthesis right on the ingredient list, while others do not, even though the ingredients contain no animal products. It's hard to understand why a manufacturer wouldn't label vegan if it's vegan. I can't see how that could hurt sales. Any advice would be appreciated.
A lot of people assume that if something is vegan, it can't taste good, so it could actually hurt sales. You'll also find products that just say vegetarian, but are actually vegan.
Not sure what you need advice on? If it doesn't contain animal products, it's vegan.

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#16 Old 03-31-2016, 03:05 PM
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A lot of people assume that if something is vegan, it can't taste good, so it could actually hurt sales. You'll also find products that just say vegetarian, but are actually vegan.
Not sure what you need advice on? If it doesn't contain animal products, it's vegan.
Got it. I just have to learn if all the ingredients are vegetarian or not. I see a lot of ingredients I don't know (Xanthan Gum, for example. It doesn't sound like an animal product). I see a bunch of those frozen desserts and they don't say if they are vegan or not, so I have to go down each ingredient and figure it out. Not a complaint, just seems like it would be easier for the vegan consumer if the product was labeled "vegan" or not. Would Oreo sales fall if there was somewhere on the label that listed it as vegan? I guess that is my question.
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#17 Old 04-01-2016, 09:12 PM
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Xanthan Gum, for example. It doesn't sound like an animal product)
It's produced by bacteria and used as a thickening agent.
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#18 Old 04-02-2016, 03:54 AM
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Got it. I just have to learn if all the ingredients are vegetarian or not. I see a lot of ingredients I don't know (Xanthan Gum, for example. It doesn't sound like an animal product). I see a bunch of those frozen desserts and they don't say if they are vegan or not, so I have to go down each ingredient and figure it out. Not a complaint, just seems like it would be easier for the vegan consumer if the product was labeled "vegan" or not. Would Oreo sales fall if there was somewhere on the label that listed it as vegan? I guess that is my question.
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Got it. I just have to learn if all the ingredients are vegetarian or not. I see a lot of ingredients I don't know (Xanthan Gum, for example. It doesn't sound like an animal product). I see a bunch of those frozen desserts and they don't say if they are vegan or not, so I have to go down each ingredient and figure it out. Not a complaint, just seems like it would be easier for the vegan consumer if the product was labeled "vegan" or not. Would Oreo sales fall if there was somewhere on the label that listed it as vegan? I guess that is my question.
My theory is that some products that would otherwise be totally vegan maybe have cane sugar in them that is processed through bone char. In the U.S., most cane sugar is processed this way, though there are cane sugars produced using sugar beets that do not use bone char. And some organic cane sugars do not use bone char. Sometimes it's something subtle that is slipped in there like vitamin D3 (which is usually derived from either lanolin or fish oil unless the label clearly states vegan D3 from mushrooms/lichens). Sometimes it is just the interpretation of the food maker as to what is considered vegan or vegetarian. Just do the best you can and it will get easier!
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#19 Old 04-03-2016, 03:23 PM
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there are cane sugars produced using sugar beets that do not use bone char
Beet sugar and cane sugar are both readily available in most groceries, in the US at least. Remember, C&H = cane, Crystal = beet. The two are virtually identical performance-wise. The only difference a home cook is likely to notice is brulees. Some professional bakers insist that there is a slight difference in baked goods, but blind testing doesn't back that up. Any slight difference there is between the two is likely due to small variations in moisture content. Otherwise ... sucrose is sucrose, and AFAIK both are pure sucrose.

I've always kind of wondered about drinks with cane sugar. Bone char is used in the bleaching process (beet sugar doesn't use this same process). Since the product is bleached for appearance, I see no reason for it to be bleached before using it in products where the consumer doesn't see it. There may be something I'm not taking in to account, but I've never seen anything one way or the other about this application.

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#20 Old 04-04-2016, 05:13 AM
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Your point is also right but many times that leads to people jumping the gun and gorging their cheat meal all day.
I agree with you but you are what you do consistently. So if you are a part of a diet regimen that is directed toward what you're aspiring towards, then a cheat day is no threat to your overall goal. Indulge every once in awhile; treat yourself as a reward for your hard work.


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#21 Old 04-04-2016, 07:58 AM
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I can't stand the texture of fake meats...too much like "real" for me, so never eat it or I should say rarely.

Became a vegan on September 2014, best decision ever!
I know humans consider it a grave insult to be called an animal. Well, I would never give a human the fine distinction of being called an animal, because an animal may kill to live but an animal never lives to kill. Humans have to earn the right to be called animals again.”
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#22 Old 04-04-2016, 07:14 PM
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So if you are a part of a diet regimen that is directed toward what you're aspiring towards, then a cheat day is no threat to your overall goal.
Unless your goal is political. It's hard to justify participation if nonparticipation in and active undermining of carnism or our messed up global food system or whatever IS your overall goal. Non-free trade cocoa beans are still likely harvested with slave labor on 'cheat days'.
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