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I'm working on being more accepting of meat eaters, but part of me feels it is ethica

2K views 12 replies 12 participants last post by  vegan2005 
#1 ·
It seems as though the general consensus on this forum is to have an accepting attitude toward those who consume animal products. I know I for one feel sick when I see my family members (who I love) eating meat. I am working on having a more accepting attitude.

I have read that as vegans we shouldn't try to convince others to change. I agree that people won't make the change unless they want to.

But the thing I don't get is why shouldn't we try to convince people more... or at least inform them on the facts? The meat and dairy industry do such a good job covering up animal cruelty. I for one was ignorant to all of it until my vegan friend told me about it 3 months ago. I became vegan after that. I knew other vegans and vegetarians previously, but none of them had told me about animal cruelty or their reasons for being vegetarian...all because I didn't ask. I wish I could've been informed earlier.

I feel so strongly about it that I feel bad being around people eating meat and not saying anything. But then again I feel like I need to just be accepting and non judgemental towards them and not spew out a bunch of facts at them.

From an ethical stand point, isn't it wrong NOT to say anything? If vegans stand for better treatment of animals, isn't it wrong to watch ignorant people continue to eat animal products without saying anything?

What do you guys think?
 
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#2 ·
Sometimes it can be hard to not say anything, but the problem is most people will see it as you preaching no matter how nicely you say it to them. Perhaps, your friend telling you about veganism worked because you were already open to the idea. If you weren't, you'd most likely see it as preaching. So, it might be better to lead by example when it comes to most people - show them that you feel healthy and have energy without eating meat and dairy, and show them that vegan meals can be tasty. Maybe invite your omnivore friends to your house sometimes and serve a vegan meal?
I think it's good to tell them about what goes in the meat and dairy industry, but perhaps choose people that are already open to the idea of veganism (or even at least vegetarianism), or if they like to read recommend a book about it.
I personally think that the most effective way to turn someone vegan is to show them videos of factory farming, but most people would refuse to watch them.
Also, even if they do watch them, unfortunately we have to accept that not everyone has compassion towards animals. I know people who would slit the throat of an animal themselves.
 
#3 ·
123, it is really hard to see people I love stuffing themselves with dead animals. When they ask me about my veganism, I talk about it, but I don't usually bring it up myself.

My one rule is I won't talk about it during a meal because it's apparently considered obnoxious to bring up slaughterhouses, or how many chickens died so they could have a bucket of wings. It's okay to gnaw on bones, but not to talk about the creature the bones are a part of.

I will discuss veganism happily at other times though, and I try to tailor the information to the person, like use environmental reasons for some, health or animal cruelty for others. And I keep it short, sweet, and intense.

So. Sigh. I've been vegan a decade, and have no real answer at all. I do cook for everyone, and have a fully vegan kitchen, so hopefully that sets an example. I wish that more people were vegetarian, and that people would stop thinking it is hilarious to poke fun at vegans.
 
#4 ·
From an ethical stand point, isn't it wrong NOT to say anything? If vegans stand for better treatment of animals, isn't it wrong to watch ignorant people continue to eat animal products without saying anything?

What do you guys think?
I don't think people should saying 'nothing'. At the same time, I think it's important to work out the best times to say something and the best things to say in those situations.

Personally, I think commenting on someone's food choice AS they eat whatever or whoever they're eating is unhelpful. People tend to be pretty defensive about the whole thing in general and even more so when they're eating an animal. They feel judged (which is what's happening so you can't really fault them on that) and they get angry, then any meaningful discussions go out the window.

It is wrong to not speak up. But I think, for the animal's sake, we have to choose those battles wisely because we want people to be open to the idea, not so opposed to it that they don't listen to what we have to say.

The thing is, meal times are a small fraction of the day. We have heaps of time, in other interactions, to really get the message across.

Of course, if you're at a meal and someone says "Do you mind if I eat this animal in front of you?" you're allowed to say "Yes, I do mind. It makes me uncomfortable".
 
#7 ·
I think this is pretty much how I feel also. I know from experience that people will not listen when they are just not ready.

I find the approach of asking if they know where their food comes from rather than saying that they shouldn't have animal products, works better for me.
Once I get them thinking about free range as against factory farmed, they are usually more open to talking about it.
This is because I'm not telling them that they are bad people for eating animal.......and, believe me, that's what they think when a vegan "preaches".
 
#5 ·
It seems as though the general consensus on this forum is to have an accepting attitude toward those who consume animal products. I know I for one feel sick when I see my family members (who I love) eating meat. I am working on having a more accepting attitude.

I have read that as vegans we shouldn't try to convince others to change. I agree that people won't make the change unless they want to.

But the thing I don't get is why shouldn't we try to convince people more... or at least inform them on the facts? The meat and dairy industry do such a good job covering up animal cruelty. I for one was ignorant to all of it until my vegan friend told me about it 3 months ago. I became vegan after that. I knew other vegans and vegetarians previously, but none of them had told me about animal cruelty or their reasons for being vegetarian...all because I didn't ask. I wish I could've been informed earlier.

I feel so strongly about it that I feel bad being around people eating meat and not saying anything. But then again I feel like I need to just be accepting and non judgemental towards them and not spew out a bunch of facts at them.

From an ethical stand point, isn't it wrong NOT to say anything? If vegans stand for better treatment of animals, isn't it wrong to watch ignorant people continue to eat animal products without saying anything?

What do you guys think?
That might be the general consensus, but that doesn't mean everybody feels that way.

Do what you feel is right, personally I don't "act" nice to people who eat meat. But I don't go out of my way to criticize them either.
 
#6 ·
I feel lucky that I found my way toward veganism. If my life had gone a somewhat different way, I might still be polluting myself with negative food, blissfully unaware of the pain I would still be inflicting.

There is no blanket rule about how to relate to others. You know your friends and family far better than "we" do. It's a tricky business balancing conviction and relationships. I wish I had some real advice to offer, but I don't, except to use your own good judgement in talking with others, and remember, their habits are not just cruel to animals, but are cruel to themselves as well, at least in my opinion. If they're anything at all like I was, they're victims of a huge system, into which they were thrust, without any choice.

I think the best we can do for others is, not to tell them what to think, but to help them learn how to think for themselves, independently of a massive tradition that has no basis in good sense.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Reverse the roles for a minute- if someone is (unsolicited) preaching on and on at you about why you should eat animals and why they were put on this earth for us to eat ext... how likely are you to start viewing animals as commodities and eating meat again? To a meat-eater who has no intention of going veg, you sound the exact same to them and all you do "encouraging" them is get their back up about it. After 15 years as a vegetarian, I have found more often than not, the most vocal people are so vocal about their personal decisions NOT because they want to convince others, rather they are trying to convince themselves. I do not personally feel a need to justify my POV to anyone else, and doing so unsolicited is just going to create tension and drama. Thats why (IMO) some vegetarians are so tolerant towards meat eaters. They know being excessively vocal isn't going to change others minds (if anything it will just irritate them) and they are already resolute about their personal choices in their own mind.


I prefer to quietly lead by example and not to judge others, as I don't want to be judged. In fact, so quiet am I, many new people I meet don't notice I'm a vegetarian for a very long time and when they finally do, they are shocked at how many years I've been one, the fact I've never brought it up and actually WANT to know more because of it. They actually ask me questions, and not from a place of being argumentative or rude. It's rare to meet a non-voacl vegetarian and many people find themselves full of questions when they don't feel pressured. Sometimes, they'll even do their own research and make some positive steps froward. My hubby had never met a vegetarian before he met me and ate meat pretty much 3 meals a day. I never nagged him, I waited patiently (very patiently) for him to ask me questions about why I was a vegetarian, and let him draw his own conclusions. And over a period of 8 or so years, he's made small, but positive steps forward. Now he eats meat maybe a few times a month and buys it organic from local farms. He's never going to go veg, and I'm ok with that, but I'm very proud he's informed himself and actually used that information to make decisions on what HE feels is acceptable. And then there are those people who will never agree. My dad and most of his side of the family mock me, make fun of me, call me names and even try to "sneak" me meat. They have been doing so for years and when they start at it, I just take a deep breath and direct the conversation in another direction besides dietary choices. Theres no point in discussing the matter with them when they want to behave in such a immature, spiteful manner. At least I can look in the mirror and know I don't set out to pick fights and don't take the bait from those who do. Sometimes, thats the best you're going to get when you've chosen an unconventional lifestyle.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Reverse the roles for a minute- if someone is (unsolicited) preaching on and on at you about why you should eat animals and why they were put on this earth for us to eat ext... how likely are you to start viewing animals as commodities and eating meat again?

...I prefer to quietly lead by example and not to judge others, as I don't want to be judged. In fact, so quiet am I, many new people I meet don't notice I'm a vegetarian for a very long time and when they finally do, they are shocked at how many years I've been one, the fact I've never brought it up and actually WANT to know more because of it. They actually ask me questions, and not from a place of being argumentative or rude. It's rare to meet a non-voacl vegetarian and many people find themselves full of questions when they don't feel pressured.
My experience has been very similar to yours, Kiwi. I have (unintentionally) had some positive influence on a few people just by being a good example, and managed to make some meat-eaters fall in love with the local veg restaurant as well! People will rarely go to you for info if they feel pressured or under attack. And when someone feels under attack, regardless off whether they truly were attacked, they almost always go on the defense and fight back.

But the thing I don't get is why shouldn't we try to convince people more... or at least inform them on the facts?
Chilling, you could definitely give it a try... I certainly will not tell you not to try it. Nearly everyone I have ever known who has either tried to "force" the conversation (even in a respectful way), even just in the format of giving the facts, has had bad luck with it, has NOT succeeded in convincing anyone, and/or has been labeled "pushy" and even lost friends. I've heard of a few who seemed to convince one or two people of the facts, but those people continued to consume meat and dairy at the same rate. Maybe your experience would be different, and if so, I'd love to hear about it. But I think the reason you hear people talking about "not trying to convince people" on this board is because most of us have "been there, done that" or we know too many who have.
 
#10 ·
It's a tricky balance.

I'm not 'quiet' about my vegetarianism. Everyone who knows me, knows I'm a vegetarian and they usually know it within a few hours of meeting me. Not because I'm like "HEY, I'M A VEGETARIAN, BOW TO MY WISHES OF FOOD!" but because food is a thing that is discussed all the time and I don't shy away from saying who I don't eat.

But from there, I leave it. As much as I'd like to tell them WHY I don't, I know that question comes eventually. Just by being a veg*n, you already have some people wondering about their own choices and they will ask you questions and that's when you can tell them. Though, I try to keep it as succinct as possible because I find it tends to have a great impact on people.

Though, in the online world I'm much more up front about my vegetarianism and I don't wait for 'questions' as to why I don't eat animals. If someone has the misfortune of being my friend on Facebook, then my views on animals are quite clear. (Though it's a balancing act).
 
#11 ·
here is what I think. these meat eaters (which many of us were formerly) are not asking to be accepted by you. What I think works is to accept people as they are where they are and see if there is some small window of influence I might have. If I have, great, if not, move on.

How would you feel if you heard that someone you knew was having trouble accepting you as a vegan because (insert any reason here, it hurts the economy, it is bad for health, whatever) How open would you feel to someone like that.

I accept that people are where they are for a reason and society moves at its own pace. BUT we can move that along by living by example, by speaking up at the right moments, by raising awareness.

People are who they are. Your not accepting them won't help that.
 
#12 ·
I don't judge meat eaters, since I used to be one.

What torques me off, is when you tell someone you're a vegetarian, or vegan. All of a sudden, they're an expert in nutrition....with a Harvard degree. They judge my eating habits in a negative way, when I say nothing about the way they eat. I'm eating a piece of fruit from a tree, for God's sake....how can they feel threatened?

Maybe I should just state upfront that I have an allergic reaction to meat, dairy products, and cretins. That should stop the conversation dead in it's tracks.

I don't ask you about your Double Whopper....don't ask me about my kale salad.

Forehead Watch Beard Happy Font
 
#13 · (Edited)
I know I for one feel sick when I see my family members (who I love) eating meat. I am working on having a more accepting attitude. I have read that as vegans we shouldn't try to convince others to change. I agree that people won't make the change unless they want to.
From an ethical stand point, isn't it wrong NOT to say anything? If vegans stand for better treatment of animals, isn't it wrong to watch ignorant people continue to eat animal products without saying anything?
Can you persuade ISIS people not to be cruel to "unfaithful"?
It's not a good time to attack; it's the time to defense. What can you say against thousands of nutritionists and practitioners who everyday persuade that people cannot be healthy without eating animal protein? Can you fight against this huge army of meat lovers?
"People aren't going to stop eating meat," said Harold A. Mooney, professor of biology and a senior fellow at the Woods Institute for the Environment at Stanford. "The industry is massive, it's growing and it has huge environmental and social impacts".
The only defense weapon to me is the language of facts.
That's seems funny to many, when you speak about animals rights and cruelty to animals, but try to remind people that every our step has consequences. Reveal meat-eaters consequences of their doings. The facts tell that " a cow consumes about 75 kg to 300 kg of dry matter - grass or grain - to produce a kg of protein." This leads to massive deforestation and reduction of oxygen in the atmosphere and increase of CO2. The livestock ranches also produce remarkable amount of methane. Luckily there is no need to explain green-house gases influences nowadays.
One can find more facts of the same kind here.
The other powerful defence weapon is health issues. Nature stands for vegans. The health consequences of meat consumption are very well described in the movie "Forks over Knives". Going vegan can heal many pandemic diseases. I described my personal experience here. I think these might be more or less persuasive facts for someone whose mind is not sealed.
So, it's not only tolerance to different minds, it's about an ability to survive and live healthy.
Good luck
 
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