Aquaponics: Vegan or Not? - VeggieBoards
View Poll Results: Would you eat food grown through Aquaponics?
I AM vegan and WOULD eat these plants. 7 50.00%
I am NOT vegan. 3 21.43%
I AM vegan and WOULD NOT eat these plants. 3 21.43%
I just have no clue. 1 7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 06-08-2011, 10:45 AM
Beginner
 
IslasLorax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Aquaponics & Hydroponics utilizes "fish water" and the "re-use" of water to create more nutrient rich water to grow vegetables/fruit. Do you think this is vegan?

Many local vegan shops in my area are buying from a non-profit organization that raises fish and vegetables, uses the "fish water" and filters it through the plants (the plants become more nutrient dense). They then sell the fish for consumption (which is clearly not vegan). But the only way that this food is grown is through the use of fish... tough one!
IslasLorax is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 06-08-2011, 11:12 AM
Where's my camera?
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1,565
Not sure I understand. Fish swim in the water, then the water is used to grow vegetables? I haven't heard of that. I know that fish emulsion is a common fertilizer. That's where the bodies of fish are ground up and then used as a solid or liquid fertilizer.

Vegan Cookbooks Illustrated

http://vegan-cookbooks-illustrated.blogspot.com/

http://pinterest.com/VeganCookbooks/

Mojo is online now  
#3 Old 06-08-2011, 11:17 AM
Beginner
 
Joan Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,547
Vegetables you buy in the stores, and organic vegetables from farmers markets, are usually fertilized with animal products. What makes this one a tough call? Is it knowing for sure, instead of being able to say that you don't know for a fact that your green peppers, tomatos and cucumbers were fertilized with blood meal, bone meal or cow manure?

Is there something about fish water that makes it worse than conventional slaughterhouse byproducts as a nutrient source for vegetables?
Joan Kennedy is online now  
#4 Old 06-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 212
So they use the water the fish have been in to water the veg? Is that what this is?
Tofulicious is offline  
#5 Old 06-08-2011, 11:25 AM
Beginner
 
IslasLorax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Mojo: The use of the water that fish swim in (and poop in) makes for more nutrient dense food apparently.

Joan: I do the best I can as a vegan and I consume as few animal products as I can, I shop at local organic markets in which I can talk to the farmer (which not only supports my community but also ensures that I can know what was used to produce my food). I like to think about what I eat (and therefore "not knowing" is not an option), but what I can't do is refuse to eat anything. Would you rather eat a vegetable that stated "GROWN WITH BLOOD" or "GROWN WITH FISH THAT ARE BEING SLAUGHTERED" - neither seems satisfactory.
IslasLorax is offline  
#6 Old 06-08-2011, 11:43 AM
Beginner
 
Joan Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,547
There's not a lot of veganic produce, which sounds like what you hold out for, grown near where I live. None of the growers who sell at my farmers market grow their vegetables this way. And composted vegetation from worm bins isn't considered vegan by some vegans because of hazard to and exploitation of the worms. I have read that some veganic farmers use human waste from composted toilets as fertilizer, and for safety reasons I would not consume produce fertilized this way.
Joan Kennedy is online now  
#7 Old 06-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Beginner
 
IslasLorax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Really there is no perfect way to be vegan, but if I can minimize the consumption of food that is grown using animals then I will. Knowing that this food is produced with water from animals that are there to produce "better" produce but then are being slaughtered afterwards doesn't seem like something I want to support, but you have a point that food grown isn't always vegan - so is it better to buy from a local non-profit that is definitely not vegan, but doesn't exploit workers and is as humane as they can OR buying from a market that the origin is unknown?
IslasLorax is offline  
#8 Old 06-08-2011, 11:51 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,587


This is an example for those that don't know how this works.

This is a pretty efficient way to grow plants, the nutrients work well from certain fish for certain plants.
luvourmother is offline  
#9 Old 06-08-2011, 12:09 PM
Beginner
 
imdead-goaway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan Kennedy View Post

There's not a lot of veganic produce, which sounds like what you hold out for, grown near where I live. None of the growers who sell at my farmers market grow their vegetables this way. And composted vegetation from worm bins isn't considered vegan by some vegans because of hazard to and exploitation of the worms. I have read that some veganic farmers use human waste from composted toilets as fertilizer, and for safety reasons I would not consume produce fertilized this way.

I think it is beyond stupid to consider vermiculture not okay for being vegan. Worms literally don't have brains, and I'm pretty sure they don't care whether or not they're living in the ground, or whether they're in a box where they're getting fed - and, mind you, away from predators. I don't kill bugs, and hell, I've even saved a few worms from drowning in gutters, but I wouldn't consider vermiculture to be exploitation.
imdead-goaway is offline  
#10 Old 06-08-2011, 12:11 PM
Beginner
 
imdead-goaway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post



This is an example for those that don't know how this works.

This is a pretty efficient way to grow plants, the nutrients work well from certain fish for certain plants.

Well, if you had the money and space, you could probably do this in your own home, and let the fish run their natural course. Seems like an interesting approach to gardening...
imdead-goaway is offline  
#11 Old 06-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Beginner
 
IslasLorax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by imdead-goaway View Post

I think it is beyond stupid to consider vermiculture not okay for being vegan. Worms literally don't have brains, and I'm pretty sure they don't care whether or not they're living in the ground, or whether they're in a box where they're getting fed - and, mind you, away from predators. I don't kill bugs, and hell, I've even saved a few worms from drowning in gutters, but I wouldn't consider vermiculture to be exploitation.

I am on the fence with this one too. Only because I think the mass production of vermicompost would exploit workers more than worms, however the non-profit organization about 20-minutes away from my home uses vermicompost as one of the staples to support it's mission to educate people from third world countries (really, they bring them here - teach them to farm, pay them and have people in their country to work with them and help their family start a sustainable farm). Also, I bring ALL of my kitchen scraps there to be vermicomposted so they can support their mission, then I reduce trash and in return I get amazing produce that is grown organically and with the kitchen scraps I gave them. I suppose on this one there is a line between being environmentally irresponsible and vegan or environmentally savvy and maybe a little less vegan.
IslasLorax is offline  
#12 Old 06-08-2011, 12:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 212
If the tank was extremely large and the stocking density of the fish was low, and they were rescues, I'd support it.
Tofulicious is offline  
#13 Old 06-08-2011, 12:18 PM
Beginner
 
Joan Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by imdead-goaway View Post

I think it is beyond stupid to consider vermiculture not okay for being vegan. Worms literally don't have brains, and I'm pretty sure they don't care whether or not they're living in the ground, or whether they're in a box where they're getting fed - and, mind you, away from predators. I don't kill bugs, and hell, I've even saved a few worms from drowning in gutters, but I wouldn't consider vermiculture to be exploitation.

I wouldn't either, for pretty much the reasons you give. But in the debate I read on VB on this issue, the participants on both sides seemed intelligent and conscientious to me. http://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/sh...orm-bins-vegan
Joan Kennedy is online now  
#14 Old 06-08-2011, 12:31 PM
Beginner
 
imdead-goaway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
I think composting in any way is great - I'm lucky enough to have a large backyard, so I started a compost pile a few months ago, and I am actively making sure that buckets of food waste (literally, all the compostables go in a bucket) are kept from the landfill every week. When I move out to an apartment, I'm definitely going to keep a worm bin in the kitchen.
Regardless of whether or not it's "cruel to the worms", I think the fact that we're NOT feeding the landfills, which destroy habitats of more animals, is a better end of the deal for everyone.
imdead-goaway is offline  
#15 Old 06-08-2011, 05:10 PM
Beginner
 
MistressD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post



This is a pretty efficient way to grow plants.

sucks to be the fish tho...
MistressD is offline  
#16 Old 06-11-2011, 12:48 AM
Beginner
 
JoBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
I think, if the tank was large enough to be comparable to a natural body of water that a particular species of fish would be in, I'd be okay with it.

There isn't enough love in the Universe....
JoBravo is offline  
#17 Old 06-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Beginner
 
SomebodyElse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a California Ghost Town
Posts: 7,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressD View Post

sucks to be the fish tho...

Yes, no different from birds in cages, or calves in veal crates.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
SomebodyElse is offline  
#18 Old 03-26-2012, 09:11 PM
Beginner
 
OutofLimits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 68
You know it's not necessary to consume the fish produced by an aquaponic system :P, it's still an extremely efficient way of producing plants. Logically it would seem a much friendlier alternative for agricultural fertilization than fertilization which is necessary with the current system if the fish are not killed to be consumed.
OutofLimits is offline  
#19 Old 03-27-2012, 02:12 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,865
I don't worry about stuff like this.

As less fish and flesh are consumed the by products will become too scarce/expensive for widespread use.

Eliminate fish and flesh consumption completely and there would be no by products at all.

No by products = no by product problems.

Working at reducing fish and flesh consumption is clearly where all the effort should go.

Life, I think, is a bit like a swimming pool. Untill we stop people pissing in it altogether then everyone is at risk of taking a little sip.
Clueless Git is offline  
#20 Old 03-27-2012, 02:28 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

I think, if the tank was large enough to be comparable to a natural body of water that a particular species of fish would be in, I'd be okay with it.

I wonder about stuff like that Jo.

I used to fish. That the fish would only go out to look for as much food as they needed before returning to hide in the small places was pretty clear. Even the predatory species, like Pike, did the same.

Was watching wild rabbits too. They do much the same thing too.

Seems that for some species the wide open spaces are not some delightfull freedom but a risk that they have to endure.

For other species not the case though. Hippy and I were nearly reduced to tears watching a giant sea turtle that looked that it had gone quite mad by having its migratory instinct frustrated by being kept inside of a tank.
Clueless Git is offline  
#21 Old 07-11-2013, 08:38 PM
Beginner
 
Kazoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2

Hmmmmm...Would using "ornamental" fish like koi or gold fish be a solution as long as density rates

were monitored?  If so, then perhaps vegan fish tank designers could come up with configurations that

would support the natural instincts of these fish.

Kazoo is offline  
#22 Old 07-11-2013, 08:40 PM
Beginner
 
Kazoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2

Hmmmmm...Would using "ornamental" fish like koi or gold fish be a solution as long as density rates

were monitored?  If so, then perhaps vegan fish tank designers could come up with configurations that

would support the natural instincts of these fish.

Kazoo is offline  
#23 Old 04-29-2014, 10:19 PM
Beginner
 
GetNativ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5

Wow old thread.  I was just working on my aquaponics system today and wanted to see if anyone was using this system here.  

 

I've had my system for about a year and a half.  Its in my greenhouse with my other veggies and it is solar powered.  Ive struggled with setting the Ph levels of my water, and also dealing with mold and aphids, but its all been a great learning experience.  I just put some new cucumber plants in there today.

GetNativ is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off