Does It Really Make A Difference? - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 06-22-2010, 01:25 AM
 
Cait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
So i read on a post that becoming veg saves 100 animals a year or something like that. I wanted to know if there was some truth to that. When i tell people I am veg to save lives they always say it doesnt make a difference. I really hope it does..
Cait is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 06-22-2010, 05:15 AM
 
Joan Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,601
I can't find the citation, but I did read recently that an omnivore will typically eat one tenth of a cow, one third of a pig, 27 chickens and 2 turkeys during the course of a year. It didn't mention fish, but if you used to eat a lot of shrimp, the number of animals could easily pass 100.
Joan Kennedy is online now  
#3 Old 06-22-2010, 05:34 AM
 
angie54321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,487
It's easy to think that by yourself, you won't make a difference: so it's not worth doing anything.



But imagine if we all thought like that? Then nothing would change.



Every time you choose to put something other than an animal or animal product in your mouth, it makes a difference. Maybe a small one, but every time you do it, your actions add up.



On top of that, you are setting a good example to others. Proving that living without animal produce is possible: that there is another way.



Never doubt it: your actions, although small, will make a massive difference, in time.

www.VeggieVie.co.uk  Vegetarian and vegan recipes from around the world.
angie54321 is offline  
#4 Old 06-22-2010, 05:42 AM
 
amhappy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,257
http://www.starrbrite.com/starfish.html



This has been used here before, but it sums it up nicely.
amhappy1 is offline  
#5 Old 06-22-2010, 05:44 AM
 
delicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,882
Animals are raised to meet demand. A single vegetarian probably does not lower demand enough to change the number of animals raised for slaughter, but I believe 100 vegetarians do! There's a tipping point, somewhere.



And personally, you make a difference because you influence others. Who knows how many vegetarians you will help convert in your lifetime, and how many they will help convert.

You might personally prevent a million animals going through the horrific meat machine.
delicious is offline  
#6 Old 06-22-2010, 06:17 AM
 
angie54321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by delicious' date='22 June 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1277207069' post='2662767 View Post


Animals are raised to meet demand. A single vegetarian probably does not lower demand enough to change the number of animals raised for slaughter, but I believe 100 vegetarians do! There's a tipping point, somewhere.



And personally, you make a difference because you influence others. Who knows how many vegetarians you will help convert in your lifetime, and how many they will help convert.

You might personally prevent a million animals going through the horrific meat machine.

Very true.

My brother took the first step and became a vegetarian: I followed a few months after.

Then my parents did.

A few years later I met my partner, and he became vegetarian.

We have raised 3 vegetarian children.

So, my brother has been responsible for making 7 other people vegetarian.



Now that's making a difference!

www.VeggieVie.co.uk  Vegetarian and vegan recipes from around the world.
angie54321 is offline  
#7 Old 06-22-2010, 09:17 AM
 
shortstack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 747
You are making a differance like the others said, but i would also like to point out the differance you are making in your own body, spirit and mind (whether or not you follow any sort of religious path or not).



you are making a differance- you alone are stopping at least some animals from being killed

You are impowered - making your own decisions

practicing strength in conviction- sticking to your guns, not caving and not feeling like you "have" to cave or give anything up

Leading by example breaking the mold - you don't eat meat just cause "everybody does" or "its natural".

being health concious - you are choosing what foods eneter your body and in what manner. YOU are taking a stand against the common ailments and issues associated with the poor diet that normally abounds with meat eaters

joy/happiness - you can feel lighter and guilt free as you are eating guilt free..



you should never (tho i know most of us are guilty) feel that you need to justify your eating habits to others. you ARE saving lives, quote a number if you want...

Here's one way to look at it

really easy to assume this; One dinner two adults usually at least 2 chicken breasts, or 2-4 thighs - that is one dead chicken. IMHO its not the fact if you are eating a whole chicken (or lack there of) It's that fact that by not eating any part of the chicken you give NO REASON to the slaughter industry to kill that animal. It doesn't matter if you're not eating a whole one, a breast or a thigh, at least one animal is killed to give you any of those! regardless of what is done with the rest of the carcass.

http://haylieskitchen.blogspot.com/ (married to an omni so cooking from both spectrums)
shortstack is offline  
#8 Old 06-22-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Raven815's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 668
Yes, I truly believe what we do has a trickle effect. All I did was tell my older sister what I am doing and now she is slowly going veg*n. For some reason, she is holding on to still eating chicken, but I know it's only a matter of time. I just keep talking to her and advising her and I notice she is slowly changing over. She is older than me (she's in her early 50's) and I am convincing her that veg*n is the fountain of youth. Plus, people in my life are genuinely interested in what I am doing and are always asking me about it. So, you never know how you are influencing people, besides the animals you are saving. I believe example is a powerful force.



Laura
Raven815 is offline  
#9 Old 06-22-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Parsnip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,672
I've had this debate with my spouse. Yes, it is highly unlikely that McDonalds is going to send the meat factory an order for "one less cow" this time because I stopped eating there.



However, it does add up if enough people stop eating meat and one indication of that is how many restaurants - including fast food ones - are now offering veg*n options. That wasn't true 25 years ago during my first attempt to go vegetarian. At most restaurants I was limited to a side salad and a vast number of packaged products contained lard and other animal products that are now rarely used. (well, the packaged products were mostly due to cost and convenience, but restaurants are definitely noticing that there is a substantial veg*n market)
Parsnip is offline  
#10 Old 06-22-2010, 11:37 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie54321' date='22 June 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1277209035' post='2662775 View Post


My brother took the first step and became a vegetarian: I followed a few months after.

Then my parents did.

A few years later I met my partner, and he became vegetarian.

We have raised 3 vegetarian children.

So, my brother has been responsible for making 7 other people vegetarian.



Now that's making a difference!

That's what it's all about in my opinion
Clueless Git is offline  
#11 Old 06-22-2010, 02:45 PM
 
AeryFairy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,293
It's better to do a little of something than a great deal of nothing.
AeryFairy is offline  
#12 Old 06-23-2010, 01:51 AM
 
Teresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,222
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead.



And I do believe I am making a difference.
Teresa is offline  
#13 Old 06-23-2010, 03:13 AM
 
Nessus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 426
Aside from the modest impact of reducing the demand for animal products, keep in mind that there are other types of impact that you have as a veg*n. When you purchase a veggie meal at a store or restaurant, you're also showing that company that there is a market for those products. The more profit companies see in veg*n products, the more they'll make and the easier it is for other people to become veg*n. In the case of some smaller local or internet based vegan companies, a few customers more or less might even mean the difference between surviving and going out of business.



Also, in some areas most people don't know many (or any) veg*ns, so your mere presence can have a significant effect on public perception. You may inspire someone else to try going veg -- or you may at least leave people with a good enough impression that when one of their kids wants to go veg*n they don't think it's the end of the world.



Even if your actions didn't affect anyone else, they still make a difference to you. You might try not to think about it but doing something that, deep down, you believe is wrong can't help but have a corrosive effect. Conversely, doing what you believe is right (especially in the face of social pressure) can change how you see yourself and how you relate to the rest of the world (in a good way).

Catch a shape in the circles of my mind.
Nessus is offline  
#14 Old 06-23-2010, 05:41 AM
 
Irizary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,749
Even if it didn't, would you really want to stuff some tortured piece of animal into your mouth? Would you want to participate in that? Even if there were no difference in the amount of flesh and animal products produced, and "my portion" were just thrown away, I'm not putting that suffering into my body. It doesn't do any honor to the animal, it shows the rest of the world that the animal is just a piece of meat (or dairy or egg producer), not a worthwhile individual who should be allowed to live their own life separate from what they can provide for us.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Irizary is offline  
#15 Old 06-23-2010, 11:53 AM
 
Cait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
Thank you everyone for your thoughts! I really do wish that it did make a difference in the demand, but I totally agree with the fact that over my life time I may inspire others to be veg. Also, it is true that I do not want it in my body. Ellen degeneres said in an interview that she believes in energy and that she could not put something in her body that was full of fear and anxiety. I was very inspired by her words and it really gave me a new look on it.
Cait is offline  
#16 Old 06-23-2010, 01:18 PM
 
paisleyjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,209
YES you are making a difference!!!

You are raising awareness and affecting people with the ripple effect.

Change starts at the grassroots level.



I LOVE the starfish story posted above.
paisleyjane is offline  
#17 Old 06-23-2010, 03:24 PM
 
VegRN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Even if I knew somehow that I was not directly saving a life, and if I knew somehow that I would never influence someone else's eating habits, I would still be veg*n because it is the only way I can look at myself in the mirror and look my animals in the eye without guilt. I was omni most of my life and lived in denial, I literally had to force myself not to think about what meat is in order to be able to stomach it. Once I took the blinders off, there is now no way I could go back to being a full fledged omni.
VegRN is offline  
#18 Old 06-23-2010, 04:29 PM
 
silva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 4,720
Want to know what has the biggest impact?

Apathy.
silva is online now  
#19 Old 06-23-2010, 11:28 PM
 
Josh James xVx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cait' date='22 June 2010 - 02:25 AM' timestamp='1277191503' post='2662719 View Post


So i read on a post that becoming veg saves 100 animals a year or something like that. I wanted to know if there was some truth to that. When i tell people I am veg to save lives they always say it doesnt make a difference. I really hope it does..





I'll refer you to a wonderful article:



Does being a vegetarian save animals?



Quote:
For example, take the case of The 200 Million Consumers. There are 200 million consumers, each of whom eats 50 farmed animals each year. In this market, there are only ten possible annual outputs of animals for farmers: one billion animals, two billion, and so on, up to ten billion. The difference between each of these annual outputs -- one billion -- is the smallest unit of demand perceivable to the farmer and is thus the threshold unit. Since there are 20 million customers per threshold unit, and only one of these customers will actually complete the unit of which his other purchase is a part, the probability of my completing a unit is one in 20 million. That means by buying meat for the year, an individual has a one-in-20 million chance of affecting the production and slaughter of one billion animals. The expected consequence is then one-20-millionth times one billion, which equals 50 — that is, raising and slaughtering 50 animals per year. Given the horrors of today's animal agriculture, that is a substantial consequence. These hypothetical numbers are close to the actual numbers for meat production and consumption in the United States.


Tam! RUGH!
Josh James xVx is offline  
#20 Old 06-24-2010, 07:51 AM
 
gmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsnip' date='22 June 2010 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1277226346' post='2662884 View Post


I've had this debate with my spouse. Yes, it is highly unlikely that McDonalds is going to send the meat factory an order for "one less cow" this time because I stopped eating there.



However, it does add up if enough people stop eating meat and one indication of that is how many restaurants - including fast food ones - are now offering veg*n options. That wasn't true 25 years ago during my first attempt to go vegetarian. At most restaurants I was limited to a side salad and a vast number of packaged products contained lard and other animal products that are now rarely used. (well, the packaged products were mostly due to cost and convenience, but restaurants are definitely noticing that there is a substantial veg*n market)



I am still new to all of this but have to admit I even noticed a change in stores and a few restaurants. Kroger and even at the commissary they are now offering vegan and vegetarian products. That tells me that the demand is increasing or they would not do it.

I liked reading all the other posts on here. Let's me know I am on the right path although so many non-vegans/vegetarians are constantly telling me otherwise.
gmiller is offline  
#21 Old 06-24-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Josh James xVx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiller' date='24 June 2010 - 08:51 AM' timestamp='1277387499' post='2663951 View Post


I am still new to all of this but have to admit I even noticed a change in stores and a few restaurants. Kroger and even at the commissary they are now offering vegan and vegetarian products. That tells me that the demand is increasing or they would not do it.

I liked reading all the other posts on here. Let's me know I am on the right path although so many non-vegans/vegetarians are constantly telling me otherwise.





It took roughly 20 years, between 1986 and 2006, for the population of real vegetarians in the U.S. (read - polled as "never eating meat, including fish and poultry") to raise from 1% to 2%.



That percentage raised from 2% to 5% from 2006 to 2009.



Why?



There are several theories...I prefer to think that with faster internet connections and more effective advocacy for the animals, more and more ethical consumers are realizing the reasons they should reduce or cut out their consumption of meat.



I believe that within the next 25 to 50 years, the amount of people in the developed world who are vegetarian will actually reach a majority of 50% or more..and at that point many billions of animals will have been spared a lifetime of torture and pain.

Tam! RUGH!
Josh James xVx is offline  
#22 Old 06-24-2010, 08:21 AM
 
angie54321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,487
I went vegetarian nearly 30 years ago. At that time vegetarian food was still seen as specialist, and supermarkets didn't stock it. There were no vegetarian fast foods - the only thing I remember being able to buy like that was sosmix and burgamix (to make your own), and TVP chunks, TVP mince and some awful big lumps of TVP, supposed to be a substitute for steak. (It was so thick it never cooked through properly and took ages to chew - Sunday dinner used to take HOURS!)



Restaurants never had vegetarian options - you had to ask, and were offered a salad, or an omelette. That was about it.

20 years ago, things were a bit better - although all restaurants now offered a vegetarian choice - 99% of the time vegetable lasagne! And veggie sausages and burgers began appearing in supermarkets.



And now look! There is loads of choice in supermarkets, restaurants, takeaways.



Things can and do change, if the demand is there.

www.VeggieVie.co.uk  Vegetarian and vegan recipes from around the world.
angie54321 is offline  
#23 Old 06-25-2010, 02:02 PM
 
Saxasylum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Think about it this way.



If all of the vegetarians/vegans in the world started eating meat again, just imagine how many more animals would need to be bred to supply the demand.
Saxasylum is offline  
#24 Old 06-25-2010, 10:48 PM
Where's my camera?
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1,572
I don't have the exact number for the US, but you can google around for the USDA's estimates on the number of land animals killed each year for food. I believe it consistently holds at around 10 billion animals a year for the US population of around 300 million, which averages out to about 33 animals killed for food per person. That's just land animals, that doesn't include sea creatures. And that also includes animals that are raised for food but aren't consumed.... meat that spoils, animals that die of disease, male chicks that are killed after they hatch, etc. So the average person may not necessarily eat an average of 33 land animals a year, but that's the average that were raised and were killed/died.

Vegan Cookbooks Illustrated

http://vegan-cookbooks-illustrated.blogspot.com/

http://pinterest.com/VeganCookbooks/

Mojo is offline  
#25 Old 06-26-2010, 01:01 AM
 
bellbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 218
the amount of meat that would normaly be eaten by you is subtracted from the market, bringing the demand down, its a small amount of demand but with the added people, it brings more demand, decreasing the animals murdered for food by that much more, so yes it does matter, every person adds up
bellbell is offline  
#26 Old 06-26-2010, 01:09 AM
 
bellbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 218
just to clarify, it is no where near 100 animals for just yourself, perhaps .5-2(for just meat purposes) depending on how much you would eat if you wern't a veg. again though, you are helping, it takes hundreds of singular poeople to form a chain of demand for veg*n products and to decrease demand on the meat industry. the less they have of demand, the less they'll kill lest they waste money. (blood for cash, sickening but its how it works for now till people see the horror of their actions)
bellbell is offline  
#27 Old 06-26-2010, 04:17 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh James xVx' date='24 June 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1277387970' post='2663956 View Post

I believe that within the next 25 to 50 years, the amount of people in the developed world who are vegetarian will actually reach a majority of 50% or more..

I hope so ...



There appears to be a 'critical mass' of objection to wrong doings (or at least acceptance that a doing is wrong) at which point the ball really gets rolling?



S'only a wild guestimate but I reckon the death bells will sound for the meat industry when we hit maybe as low as 20% of the population being veg*an or being highly acceptive of the arguments in favour of.
Clueless Git is offline  
#28 Old 06-26-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Josh James xVx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git' date='26 June 2010 - 05:17 AM' timestamp='1277547479' post='2664828 View Post


I hope so ...



There appears to be a 'critical mass' of objection to wrong doings (or at least acceptance that a doing is wrong) at which point the ball really gets rolling?



S'only a wild guestimate but I reckon the death bells will sound for the meat industry when we hit maybe as low as 20% of the population being veg*an or being highly acceptive of the arguments in favour of.





20% would definitely be a tipping point of sorts, but I dunno if it's THE tipping point...



It will be about like gay rights was ten years ago. At that point everyone will definitely know a vegan or vegetarian, and there will possibly be at least one in each family.



Don't underestimate the resources of the status quo though. They do their very best to spread dirty lies and use false wording to trick compassionate consumers into buying factory farmed products.



I'd say it's gonna be an uphill battle against an increasingly desperate and amoral industry until we reach at least 40%, which according to a variety of mathematical calculations should occur sometime between the years 2025 and 2045. There are variables of course. These figures assume the conversion rates hold steady, but the 2045 figure assumes the worst case scenario of a "war against vegetarians", which may seem like laughable alarmist fiction until one examines the methods of categorizing vegans as terrorists that the government is using already.



The future is uncertain but I personally believe the abolition of factory farming and a vegetarian majority population are both inevitable elements of the continued moral and intellectual progress of our species.

Tam! RUGH!
Josh James xVx is offline  
#29 Old 06-27-2010, 12:59 PM
 
FatFreddysCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie54321' date='24 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277389310' post='2663969 View Post


I went vegetarian nearly 30 years ago. At that time vegetarian food was still seen as specialist, and supermarkets didn't stock it. There were no vegetarian fast foods - the only thing I remember being able to buy like that was sosmix and burgamix (to make your own), and TVP chunks, TVP mince and some awful big lumps of TVP, supposed to be a substitute for steak. (It was so thick it never cooked through properly and took ages to chew - Sunday dinner used to take HOURS!)



Restaurants never had vegetarian options - you had to ask, and were offered a salad, or an omelette. That was about it.

20 years ago, things were a bit better - although all restaurants now offered a vegetarian choice - 99% of the time vegetable lasagne! And veggie sausages and burgers began appearing in supermarkets.



And now look! There is loads of choice in supermarkets, restaurants, takeaways.



Things can and do change, if the demand is there.



+1 to all the above. 25 years veggie.
FatFreddysCat is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off