Vegetarian Borscht for 4 people - VeggieBoards

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#1 Old 12-08-2016, 05:26 AM
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Vegetarian Borscht for 4 people



200 g of peeled tomatoes
300 g of beetroot
300 g of potatoes
150 g of onions
350 g of white cabbage
1 clove of garlic
20 g of butter*
1 vegetable stock cube
2 TBSP of vinegar
100 g of cream*
1 TSP of red paprika powder
1 TSP of chopped dill
1 TSP of caraway powder
Salt and pepper
1 liter [litre] of water

First of all, dissolve the stock cube in the water, rinse the white cabbage and cut it into slices as long as a thumb. Chop the onions and the garlic. Melt the butter in a large pot, then add the cabbage, the onions as well as the garlic and fry them for 5 minutes at medium temperature.

Pour in the vegetable stock, the peeled tomatoes, the caraway and the red paprika powder. Stir the mixture, then cover it and let it simmer for 20 minutes at medium temperature.

In the meantime peel the potatoes and dice them into bits as large as a finger, then proceed in the same way with the beetroot. After the 20 minutes indicated above, add both potatoes and beetroot to the pot and let them simmer for another 30 minutes at medium temperature.

Finally, add a pinch of salt and pepper, the cream, the vinegar and the dill, taste it and if necessary, season it with some more salt and/or pepper.


As always, I am open to suggestions
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#2 Old 12-08-2016, 09:46 AM
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Looks good. I like borscht. However, where is the protein? Potatoes and tomatoes have a bit, but there is not much, really. If I ate that for dinner, I would remain hungry and would have to eat something else that had significant protein, thus consuming too many calories for the day. So, what can be added? Chickpeas? Some type of faux meat?

Also, I am a vegetarian but eat vegan almost all of the time, so I'd replace the butter with a vegan substitute, like Earth Balance, and the cream with coconut cream.
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#3 Old 12-09-2016, 12:36 AM
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Sou you think I should maybe increase the potato content to maybe 400 g?
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#4 Old 12-09-2016, 07:11 PM
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Sou you think I should maybe increase the potato content to maybe 400 g?

No, that wouldn't boost the protein very much. I think it needs something that's higher protein. Chickpeas would be my first thought. I'd also potentially look at some type of faux meat, possibly Field Roast Italian Sausage.
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#5 Old 12-22-2016, 01:42 AM
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I can make this vegan. Love borscht - my ancestry Scots-Irish, native American and eastern European! I will share my recipe soon.

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#6 Old 12-22-2016, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
Looks good. I like borscht. However, where is the protein? Potatoes and tomatoes have a bit, but there is not much, really. If I ate that for dinner, I would remain hungry and would have to eat something else that had significant protein, thus consuming too many calories for the day. So, what can be added? Chickpeas? Some type of faux meat?

Also, I am a vegetarian but eat vegan almost all of the time, so I'd replace the butter with a vegan substitute, like Earth Balance, and the cream with coconut cream.
I honestly feel your obsession with protein is unfounded. You could add more potatoes (skin on) and use Tofutti sour cream (tofu base) instead of dairy or coconut cream, with the fresh dill topping. I've made borscht for multiple people. It's a specialty of mine, and as long as you include enough potatoes and sour cream you should be fine on protein. If you must add something, I would suggest browned seitan, rather than tofu or faux meats, because borscht is such a natural healthy dish and seitan such a complimentary protein (though Tofutti sour cream should be fine either way).

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#7 Old 12-22-2016, 07:34 AM
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I honestly feel your obsession with protein is unfounded. You could add more potatoes (skin on) and use Tofutti sour cream (tofu base) instead of dairy or coconut cream, with the fresh dill topping. I've made borscht for multiple people. It's a specialty of mine, and as long as you include enough potatoes and sour cream you should be fine on protein. If you must add something, I would suggest browned seitan, rather than tofu or faux meats, because borscht is such a natural healthy dish and seitan such a complimentary protein (though Tofutti sour cream should be fine either way).

So you claim that I have an "obsession" with protein because I say the dish doesn't have enough protein for me, and solicit ideas for how to boost it. Just wow. You know what: if you don't want any more protein in your borscht, feel free not to add it. I, however, do. That's the good thing about food choices. We all have the ability to eat what we want and in the way we want, and when we eat vegan, doing so doesn't harm animals.

In any event, I would prefer more protein in borscht, and that's non-negotiable. A bowl of the borscht in the originally described recipe probably has no more than around 5-10 grams of protein (just an educated guess, from looking at the ingredients). I'd actually guess the low end of this range, so closer to 5. Not sure how that would be a satisfying dinner for anyone, even if two or three bowls were consumed. I usually like to get 50 grams protein at dinner, minimum. I'm very tall, and I usually get around 20 grams protein at breakfast, 25 grams protein at lunch, and 50 grams protein at dinner, for a total of 95 grams per day. That's around 15-20% above the bare minimum RDA for protein for someone of my height (again, tall) and my weight. And anyway, I'm the type of person who feels satisfied only if a meal has a substantial amount of protein. If you're not, so be it, but I am.

As for the type of protein, I guess seitan would be an option, but I'd generally lean more toward chickpeas or tofu, because they're a better grade of protein and, in the case of chickpeas, have fiber. However, seitan is an option I hadn't considered, so maybe I should give it a try. As for faux meats, I'd have no problem using them here, except I'm not sure that any of the faux meats that I'm aware of would be a great compliment to borscht. Field Roast Italian sausage is the best idea I'm can think of when it comes to faux meats, but even it I'm not sure about.

Last edited by Dilettante; 12-22-2016 at 08:13 AM.
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#8 Old 12-22-2016, 10:16 AM
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I looked it up and find it can be served hot or cold. I've never had it, but it sounds like something I might like hot-I don't like cold 'soups'. I was served gazpacho once and it was just a chunky drink

Do you guys have it hot or cold?

And seriously @Dilettante , you made a big deal of "where's the protein?", I think it was pretty reasonable for someone to reply that it wasn't a big deal. The RDA guidelines for protein are .8 grams per 2 lbs of body weight.
I recently started tracking my nutrients and diet and was surprised to see I'm normally getting between 60 and 75 without any thought. Everything has protein so don't dismiss potatoes or other veggies
I will say I see no reason not to include some kind of bean or dal here if it's a hot soup
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#9 Old 12-22-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
I honestly feel your obsession with protein is unfounded. You could add more potatoes (skin on) and use Tofutti sour cream (tofu base) instead of dairy or coconut cream, with the fresh dill topping. I've made borscht for multiple people. It's a specialty of mine, and as long as you include enough potatoes and sour cream you should be fine on protein. If you must add something, I would suggest browned seitan, rather than tofu or faux meats, because borscht is such a natural healthy dish and seitan such a complimentary protein (though Tofutti sour cream should be fine either way).

So you claim that I have an "obsession" with protein because I say the dish doesn't have enough protein for me, and solicit ideas for how to boost it. Just wow. You know what: if you don't want any more protein in your borscht, feel free not to add it. I, however, do. That's the good thing about food choices. We all have the ability to eat what we want and in the way we want, and when we eat vegan, doing so doesn't harm animals.

In any event, I would prefer more protein in borscht, and that's non-negotiable. A bowl of the borscht in the originally described recipe probably has no more than around 5-10 grams of protein (just an educated guess, from looking at the ingredients). I'd actually guess the low end of this range, so closer to 5. Not sure how that would be a satisfying dinner for anyone, even if two or three bowls were consumed. I usually like to get 50 grams protein at dinner, minimum. I'm very tall, and I usually get around 20 grams protein at breakfast, 25 grams protein at lunch, and 50 grams protein at dinner, for a total of 95 grams per day. That's around 15-20% above the bare minimum RDA for protein for someone of my height (again, tall) and my weight. And anyway, I'm the type of person who feels satisfied only if a meal has a substantial amount of protein. If you're not, so be it, but I am.

As for the type of protein, I guess seitan would be an option, but I'd generally lean more toward chickpeas or tofu, because they're a better grade of protein and, in the case of chickpeas, have fiber. However, seitan is an option I hadn't considered, so maybe I should give it a try. As for faux meats, I'd have no problem using them here, except I'm not sure that any of the faux meats that I'm aware of would be a great compliment to borscht. Field Roast Italian sausage is the best idea I'm can think of when it comes to faux meats, but even it I'm not sure about.
Have you ever even had borscht? Because vegetarian borscht, without meat, would just have extra potatoes and sour cream. Borscht which contains meat would be more correctly mimicked by seitan, adding chickpeas or tofu to borscht is just ..weird. ..it's not authentic. At all. So yeah you're obsessing over someone else's recipe and trying to change it to fit your own protein ideals. It's unnecessary, like you're trying to tell him he's wrong.

Coconut cream, and chickpeas, turn this from Eastern European to Asian cuisine, which is imposing quite a lot on the OP who was open to suggestions, but you're essentially trying to ruin the authenticity of the dish. Silken tofu would add protein - which is what is in Tofutti vegan sour cream - if you wanted to make your own vegan sour cream.

I really don't care how tall you are, you eat more than TWICE the daily recommended amount of protein for an adult and yeah that looks like an obsession to me when you're trying to correct someone else's recipe. You could eat the soup with dark brown bread and something else, instead of spoiling a perfectly delicious soup.

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Last edited by Thalassa; 12-22-2016 at 05:51 PM.
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#10 Old 12-22-2016, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post
I looked it up and find it can be served hot or cold. I've never had it, but it sounds like something I might like hot-I don't like cold 'soups'. I was served gazpacho once and it was just a chunky drink

Do you guys have it hot or cold?

And seriously @Dilettante , you made a big deal of "where's the protein?", I think it was pretty reasonable for someone to reply that it wasn't a big deal. The RDA guidelines for protein are .8 grams per 2 lbs of body weight.
I recently started tracking my nutrients and diet and was surprised to see I'm normally getting between 60 and 75 without any thought. Everything has protein so don't dismiss potatoes or other veggies
I will say I see no reason not to include some kind of bean or dal here if it's a hot soup
I always eat it hot in the winter and fill it up with various root veggies, and I tend to squeeze a lemon on my bowl rather than using vinegar, I think it's tastiest that way. I think the dill is a necessary ingredient too.

I was making suggestions which were more in line with Eastern European cuisine...adding chickpeas or faux Italian sausage doesn't really make sense when making a Russian or Ukrainian soup, but whatever, you know...something like seitan or even those meatless frozen chunks would be more similar to an authentic borscht. I have a vegetarian friend who is actually Indian in heritage and she never said anything about dal or chickpeas...it's not Indian food. She liked my recipe, which is a veggie version of a real Ukrainian borscht that originally contained meat.

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#11 Old 12-22-2016, 05:13 PM
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I'm going to look into the vegan restaurants around here for that! I only go to restaurants for things I can't make, or don't know, and borscht really fits that bill!
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#12 Old 12-22-2016, 09:26 PM
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I really don't care how tall you are, you eat more than TWICE the daily recommended amount of protein for an adult and yeah that looks like an obsession to me when you're trying to correct someone else's recipe. You could eat the soup with dark brown bread and something else, instead of spoiling a perfectly delicious soup.

With all due respect, it seems that it's you who has a dislike of protein, not me who has an "obsession" about it, and it seems that, for some reason, you're upset that I asked about this. Also, please note that I didn't criticize the recipe. I simply asked how the protein could be bolstered, and most of what I've heard since asking the question is criticism of me for asking, rather than non-judgmental suggestions as to how to bolster the protein.

Also, you claim that I'm getting twice the recommended amount of protein, but this is not actually correct. Recommended protein intake is determined based on kilograms of lean body weight.

In particular, the minimum Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of protein is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram of lean body weight. See this link, for example:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-...b_5360319.html


I weigh about 210 pounds and am fairly lean (because, as noted, I'm tall). Converting pounds to kilograms, I weigh about 94 kilograms. 94 * 0.8 ==> 75 grams protein per day minimum for someone of my height and weight. If I were to eat less than that, not only would it be bad for my long-term health, but I wouldn't feel good.

However, there is more to the story. In reality, the 0.8 gram figure is a minimum, and 0.9 or 1.0 would be better and safer for anyone on a vegan diet. See, for example, this page written by vegan nutritionist Jack Norris:

http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein

He goes through a detailed analysis and concludes that "So where does all this research leave us? The results are compiled in Table 2. It is not obvious what they indicate for the protein needs of vegans, but an estimate is that vegans might benefit from 1.0 to 1.1 g/kg of protein. What is really needed is nitrogen balance studies on actual vegans."

For older people, 60 and up, even more protein is recommended.

The bottom line is the following: at my height and weight, 95 grams per day of protein is safe and conservative, not extreme, and certainly not twice as much protein as I should be consuming. Moreover, I would rather err on the side of a bit too much protein, than not enough, because any excess protein is simply eliminated. No harm. It's only when you get massive amounts of protein, like 250 grams per day or more, that there might be some strain on the kidneys, and even that's debatable.

But no, the 95 or so grams per day of protein that I'm getting is really a quite reasonable amount, and I wouldn't want to go any lower for health reasons, nor would I feel full if I did so.
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#13 Old 12-22-2016, 10:12 PM
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@Dilettante This might not have been your intention, but the wording in your first two posts came a bit across as you trying to get the OP to modify the original recipe to have more protein. Maybe that's why you got the comments you got about it.

95 grams of protein really isn't that big of an amount, though. Higher than the minimum recommended amount but still quite reasonable, so I'll agree with you on that part.

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#14 Old 12-23-2016, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
I really don't care how tall you are, you eat more than TWICE the daily recommended amount of protein for an adult and yeah that looks like an obsession to me when you're trying to correct someone else's recipe. You could eat the soup with dark brown bread and something else, instead of spoiling a perfectly delicious soup.

With all due respect, it seems that it's you who has a dislike of protein, not me who has an "obsession" about it, and it seems that, for some reason, you're upset that I asked about this. Also, please note that I didn't criticize the recipe. I simply asked how the protein could be bolstered, and most of what I've heard since asking the question is criticism of me for asking, rather than non-judgmental suggestions as to how to bolster the protein.

Also, you claim that I'm getting twice the recommended amount of protein, but this is not actually correct. Recommended protein intake is determined based on kilograms of lean body weight.

In particular, the minimum Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of protein is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram of lean body weight. See this link, for example:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-...b_5360319.html


I weigh about 210 pounds and am fairly lean (because, as noted, I'm tall). Converting pounds to kilograms, I weigh about 94 kilograms. 94 * 0.8 ==> 75 grams protein per day minimum for someone of my height and weight. If I were to eat less than that, not only would it be bad for my long-term health, but I wouldn't feel good.

However, there is more to the story. In reality, the 0.8 gram figure is a minimum, and 0.9 or 1.0 would be better and safer for anyone on a vegan diet. See, for example, this page written by vegan nutritionist Jack Norris:

http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein

He goes through a detailed analysis and concludes that "So where does all this research leave us? The results are compiled in Table 2. It is not obvious what they indicate for the protein needs of vegans, but an estimate is that vegans might benefit from 1.0 to 1.1 g/kg of protein. What is really needed is nitrogen balance studies on actual vegans."

For older people, 60 and up, even more protein is recommended.

The bottom line is the following: at my height and weight, 95 grams per day of protein is safe and conservative, not extreme, and certainly not twice as much protein as I should be consuming. Moreover, I would rather err on the side of a bit too much protein, than not enough, because any excess protein is simply eliminated. No harm. It's only when you get massive amounts of protein, like 250 grams per day or more, that there might be some strain on the kidneys, and even that's debatable.

But no, the 95 or so grams per day of protein that I'm getting is really a quite reasonable amount, and I wouldn't want to go any lower for health reasons, nor would I feel full if I did so.
It's really strange to try to alter someone's recipe to the point of making it culturally and/or aesthetically inauthentic (chickpeas, tofu, coconut milk) just because you like to eat a lot of protein. My first response to you wasn't harsh at all, I was saying it seemed really unfounded for you to be trying to add all of this protein - because it is. Even if you like a lot of protein, people actually don't need nearly as much as the average American consumes. Your protein intake isn't average or necessary, even with your body weight, it's very similar to the average American diet, but by health standards it's actually probably too much, and certainly not average by global standards.

Besides, you could have Borscht as an appetizer or with your dinner, what was the point of trying to change the recipe so extremely? From a cultural and aesthetic perspective it makes more sense to add more root vegetables (like parsnips or turnips, and extra potato) or to use lemon instead of vinegar. ..those are "suggestions"...or veganizing, with the Earth Balance or olive oil, and Tofutti sour cream or homemade vegan sour cream.

Protein tends to be one of those weird arguments omnis try to drag into vegetarian forums, and for all intents and purposes, the protein marketing in the US is exactly that. ..a marketing scam.

I mean, if you like more protein, that's your business but making this thread about protein is just odd. Eaten with a dark whole grain bread and in a large enough portion size, Borscht has adequate protein to pass as a meal, and if it doesn't for you, have it with another dish but good lord.

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#15 Old 12-23-2016, 06:47 AM
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Your protein intake isn't average or necessary, even with your body weight, it's very similar to the average American diet, but by health standards it's actually probably too much, and certainly not average by global standards.

Again, you're simply wrong. At my height and weight, 95 grams per day protein is closer to being a minimum than "probably too much." The USRDA for protein, which is extremely conservative, is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight. For me, this works out to 75 grams per day. I'm averaging around 95 grams per day, which isn't that much above the USRDA min.

However, the US RDA min is probably lower than ideal. Better would be 1 or 1.1 g/kg (see the Jack Norris article above for a discussion of why), which for me would be around 95 or 100 grams protein per day.

Again, my protein intake of 95 grams per day is, contrary to your assertion, very reasonable, certainly not "probably too much." It's also way less than most omni Americans my height and weight get. Most omni Americans consume around 1.5 g/kg per day, or more. This would mean around 150 grams per day for most omnis of my height and weight. Even someone consuming 150 grams per day, though, is probably not doing any damage to his/her health from the protein itself (though if they're consuming meat, especially red meat, there would be some adverse health effects unrelated to the protein).

Again, though, I never wanted to turn this thread into a debate about protein. I simply wanted some ideas about how I could modify the borscht recipe so that it would be more usable as a dinner for me, because I like borscht. This would mean increasing the protein. The best ideas I've heard so far are chickpeas, my original idea, and seitan.

Last edited by Dilettante; 12-23-2016 at 07:48 AM.
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#16 Old 12-23-2016, 09:37 AM
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Soup doesn't have to be the center of the meal. Other dishes can be served along with the soup.

Should I be afraid to offer recipes now?
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from Witch Baby, Francesca Lia Block, 1991
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#17 Old 12-23-2016, 10:26 AM
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Soup doesn't have to be the center of the meal. Other dishes can be served along with the soup.

Should I be afraid to offer recipes now?


Of course not. It's not I who made this thread into a war over protein. I simply asked how the protein could be bolstered so that this soup could be the center of a meal, because I love borscht, and would like to make it for dinner. Instead of non-judgmental responses with ideas, I was criticized for asking and told that I shouldn't want more protein in my borscht.

If people want borscht as a low-protein side dish, that's all well and good. But I was simply asking how it could be more, and there was something that seems like a war on protein waged on this thread.

But, David, you raise a good point. Maybe borscht is better as a side dish. That's a perfectly good suggestion. However, I plan to try making it with chickpeas for dinner.

Last edited by Dilettante; 12-23-2016 at 10:28 AM.
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#18 Old 12-23-2016, 10:42 AM
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My thoughts here. No response is requested or needed. Everyone, including me, needs to relax.


If someone offers a recipe for bread, let's not criticize the bread for its lack of vitamin C.

If someone offers a recipe for salad, let's not criticize the salad for its lack of protein.

If someone offers a recipe for nut butter, let's not criticize the nut butter for its lack of vitamin A and carbohydrates.


All mainstream health organizations, and all mainstream vegetarian organizations, recommend that people seek nutritional diversity by eating a variety of foods. It can be useful to cook single-pot dishes that are nutritionally-complete, but this is not necessary.

Again, no response is requested or needed. Happy Holidays everyone.

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“Under the twinkling trees was a table covered with Guatemalan fabric, roses in juice jars, wax rose candles from Tijuana and plates of food — Weetzie's Vegetable Love-Rice, My Secret Agent Lover Man's guacamole, Dirk's homemade pizza, Duck's fig and berry salad and Surfer Surprise Protein Punch, Brandy-Lynn's pink macaroni, Coyote's cornmeal cakes, Ping's mushu plum crepes and Valentine's Jamaican plantain pie."

from Witch Baby, Francesca Lia Block, 1991

Last edited by David3; 12-23-2016 at 11:32 AM.
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