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#91 Old 02-01-2013, 01:23 PM
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There is no requirement for food ingredients lists to include the names of chemical contaminants, heavy metals, bisphenol-A, PCBs, perchlorate or other toxic substances found in the food. As a result, ingredients lists don‘t really list what‘s actually in the food, they only list what the manufacturer wants you to believe is in the food.

This is by design, of course. Requirements for listing food ingredients were created by a joint effort between the government and private industry (food corporations). In the beginning, food corporations didn‘t want to be required to list any ingredients at all. They claimed the ingredients were "proprietary knowledge" and that listing them would destroy their business by disclosing their secret manufacturing recipes. It‘s all nonsense, of course, since food companies primarily want to keep consumers ignorant of what‘s really in their products. That‘s why there is still no requirement to list various chemical contaminants,pesticides, heavy metals and other substances that have a direct and substantial impact on the health of consumers. (For years, food companies fought hard against the listing of trans fatty acid, too, and it was only after a massive public health outcry by consumer health groups that the FDA finally forced food companies to include trans fats on the label.)

 

also at FDA.gov  = Do ingredients of foods have to be listed when the food is an ingredient in a non-standardized food?

Answer: The sub ingredients of a food that is an ingredient in another food may be declared parenthetically following the name of the ingredient or may be declared by dispersing each ingredient in its order of predominance in the ingredient statement without naming the original ingredient. 21 CFR 101.4(b)(2)

 

21 cfr 101.4 FDA rule states this  .. name me one thing that doesnt fall under these subtypes and i will declare you victorious!

 

Food; exemptions from labeling.
(a) The following foods are exempt from compliance with the requirements of section 403(i)(2) of the act (requiring a declaration on the label of the common or usual name of each ingredient when the food is fabricated from two or more ingredients).
(1) An assortment of different items of food, when variations in the items that make up different packages packed from such assortment normally occur in good packing practice and when such variations result in variations in the ingredients in different packages, with respect to any ingredient that is not common to all packages. Such exemption, however, shall be on the condition that the label shall bear, in conjunction with the names of such ingredients as are common to all packages, a statement (in terms that are as informative as practicable and that are not misleading) indicating by name other ingredients which may be present.
(2) A food having been received in bulk containers at a retail establishment, if displayed to the purchaser with either:
(i) The labeling of the bulk container plainly in view, provided ingredient information appears prominently and conspicuously in lettering of not less than one-fourth of an inch in height; or
(ii) A counter card, sign, or other appropriate device bearing prominently and conspicuously, but in no case with lettering of less than one-fourth of an inch in height, the information required to be stated on the label pursuant to section 403(i)(2) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the act).
(3) Incidental additives that are present in a food at insignificant levels and do not have any technical or functional effect in that food. For the purposes of this paragraph (a)(3), incidental additives are:
(i) Substances that have no technical or functional effect but are present in a food by reason of having been incorporated into the food as an ingredient of another food, in which the substance did have a functional or technical effect.
(ii) Processing aids, which are as follows:
(a) Substances that are added to a food during the processing of such food but are removed in some manner from the food before it is packaged in its finished form.
(b) Substances that are added to a food during processing, are converted into constituents normally present in the food, and do not significantly increase the amount of the constitutents naturally found in the food.
(c) Substances that are added to a food for their technical or functional effect in the processing but are present in the finished food at insignificant levels and do not have any technical or functional effect in that food.
(iii) Substances migrating to food from equipment or packaging or otherwise affecting food that are not food additives as defined in section 201(s) of the act; or if they are food additives as so defined, they are used in conformity with regulations established pursuant to section 409 of the act.
(4) For the purposes of paragraph (a)(3) of this section, any sulfiting agent (sulfur dioxide, sodium sulfite, sodium bisulfite, potasssium bisulfite, sodium metabisulfite, and potassium metabisulfite) that has been added to any food or to any ingredient in any food and that has no technical effect in that food will be considered to be present in an insignificant amount only if no detectable amount of the agent is present in the finished food. A detectable amount of sulfiting agent is 10 parts per million or more of the sulfite in the finished food. Compliance with this paragraph will be determined using sections 20.123-20.125, “Total Sulfurous Acid,” in “Official Methods of Analysis of the Association of Official Analytical Chemists,” 14th Ed. (1984), which is incorporated by reference and the refinements of the “Total Sulfurous Acid” procedure in the “Monier-Williams Procedure (with Modifications) for Sulfites in Foods,” which is appendix A to part 101. A copy of sections 20.123-20-125 of the Official Methods of Analysis of the Association of Official Analytical Chemists” is available from the AOAC INTERNATIONAL, 481 North Frederick Ave., suite 500, Gaithersburg, MD 20877, or available for inspection at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go to:http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html.
(b) A food repackaged in a retail establishment is exempt from the following provisions of the act if the conditions specified are met.
(1) Section 403(e)(1) of the act (requiring a statement on the label of the name and place of business of the manufacturer, packer, or distributor).
(2) Section 403(g)(2) of the act (requiring the label of a food which purports to be or is represented as one for which a definition and standard of identity has been prescribed to bear the name of the food specified in the definition and standard and, insofar as may be required by the regulation establishing the standard the common names of the optional ingredients present in the food), if the food is displayed to the purchaser with its interstate labeling clearly in view, or with a counter card, sign, or other appropriate device bearing prominently and conspicuously the information required by these provisions.
(3) Section 403(i)(1) of the act (requiring the label to bear the common or usual name of the food), if the food is displayed to the purchaser with its interstate labeling clearly in view, or with a counter card, sign, or other appropriate device bearing prominently and conspicuously the common or usual name of the food, or if the common or usual name of the food is clearly revealed by its appearance.
(c) An open container (a container of rigid or semirigid construction, which is not closed by lid, wrapper, or otherwise other than by an uncolored transparent wrapper which does not obscure the contents) of a fresh fruit or fresh vegetable, the quantity of contents of which is not more than 1 dry quart, shall be exempt from the labeling requirements of sections 403(e), (g)(2) (with respect to the name of the food specified in the definition and standard), and (i)(1) of the act; but such exemption shall be on the condition that if two or more such containers are enclosed in a crate or other shipping package, such crate or package shall bear labeling showing the number of such containers enclosed therein and the quantity of the contents of each.
(d) Except as provided by paragraphs (e) and (f) of this section, a shipment or other delivery of a food which is, in accordance with the practice of the trade, to be processed, labeled, or repacked in substantial quantity at an establishment other than that where originally processed or packed, shall be exempt, during the time of introduction into and movement in interstate commerce and the time of holding in such establishment, from compliance with the labeling requirements of section 403 (c), (e), (g), (h), (i), (k), and (q) of the act if:
(1) The person who introduced such shipment or delivery into interstate commerce is the operator of the establishment where such food is to be processed, labeled, or repacked; or
(2) In case such person is not such operator, such shipment or delivery is made to such establishment under a written agreement, signed by and containing the post office addresses of such person and such operator, and containing such specifications for the processing, labeling, or repacking, as the case may be, of such food in such establishment as will ensure, if such specifications are followed, that such food will not be adulterated or misbranded within the meaning of the act upon completion of such processing, labeling, or repacking. Such person and such operator shall each keep a copy of such agreement until 2 years after the final shipment or delivery of such food from such establishment, and shall make such copies available for inspection at any reasonable hour to any officer or employee of the Department who requests them.
(3) The article is an egg product subject to a standard of identity promulgated in part160 of this chapter, is to be shipped under the conditions specified in paragraph (d) (1) or (2) of this section and for the purpose of pasteurization or other treatment as required in such standard, and each container of such egg product bears a conspicuous tag or label reading “Caution—This egg product has not been pasteurized or otherwise treated to destroy viable Salmonella microorganisms”. In addition to safe and suitable bactericidal processes designed specifically for Salmonella destruction in egg products, the term “other treatment” in the first sentence of this paragraph shall include use in acidic dressings in the processing of which the pH is not above 4.1 and the acidity of the aqueous phase, expressed as acetic acid, is not less than 1.4 percent, subject also to the conditions that:
(i) The agreement required in paragraph (d)(2) of this section shall also state that the operator agrees to utilize such unpasteurized egg products in the processing of acidic dressings according to the specifications for pH and acidity set forth in this paragraph, agrees not to deliver the acidic dressing to a user until at least 72 hours after such egg product is incorporated in such acidic dressing, and agrees to maintain for inspection adequate records covering such processing for 2 years after such processing.
(ii) In addition to the caution statement referred to above, the container of such egg product shall also bear the statement “Unpasteurized ___ for use in acidic dressings only”, the blank being filled in with the applicable name of the eggs or egg product.
(e) Conditions affecting expiration of exemptions:
(1) An exemption of a shipment or other delivery of a food under paragraph (d) (1) or (3) of this section shall, at the beginning of the act of removing such shipment or delivery, or any part thereof, from such establishment become void ab initio if the food comprising such shipment, delivery, or part is adulterated or misbranded within the meaning of the act when so removed.
(2) An exemption of a shipment or other delivery of a food under paragraph (d) (2) or (3) of this section shall become void ab initio with respect to the person who introduced such shipment or delivery into interstate commerce upon refusal by such person to make available for inspection a copy of the agreement, as required by paragraph (d) (2) or (3) of this section.
(3) An exemption of a shipment or other delivery of a food under paragraph (d) (2) or (3) of this section shall expire:
(i) At the beginning of the act of removing such shipment or delivery, or any part thereof, from such establishment if the food constituting such shipment, delivery, or part is adulterated or misbranded within the meaning of the act when so removed; or
(ii) Upon refusal by the operator of the establishment where such food is to be processed, labeled, or repacked, to make available for inspection a copy of the agreement, as required by such paragraph.
(f) The word “processed” as used in this paragraph shall include the holding of cheese in a suitable warehouse at a temperature of not less than 35 °F for the purpose of aging or curing to bring the cheese into compliance with requirements of an applicable definition and standard of identity. The exemptions provided for in paragraph (d) of this section shall apply to cheese which is, in accordance with the practice of the trade, shipped to a warehouse for aging or curing, on condition that the cheese is identified in the manner set forth in one of the applicable following paragraphs, and in such case the provisions of paragraph (e) of this section shall also apply:
(1) In the case of varieties of cheese for which definitions and standards of identity require a period of aging whether or not they are made from pasteurized milk, each such cheese shall bear on the cheese a legible mark showing the date at which the preliminary manufacturing process has been completed and at which date curing commences, and to each cheese, on its wrapper or immediate container, shall be affixed a removable tag bearing the statement “Uncured ___ cheese for completion of curing and proper labeling”, the blank being filled in with the applicable name of the variety of cheese. In the case of swiss cheese, the date at which the preliminary manufacturing process had been completed and at which date curing commences is the date on which the shaped curd is removed from immersion in saturated salt solution as provided in the definition and standard of identity for swiss cheese, and such cheese shall bear a removable tag reading, “To be cured and labeled as ‘swiss cheese,’ but if eyes do not form, to be labeled as ‘swiss cheese for manufacturing’ ”.
(2) In the case of varieties of cheeses which when made from unpasteurized milk are required to be aged for not less than 60 days, each such cheese shall bear a legible mark on the cheese showing the date at which the preliminary manufacturing process has been completed and at which date curing commences, and to each such cheese or its wrapper or immediate container shall be affixed a removable tag reading, “___ cheese made from unpasteurized milk. For completion of curing and proper labeling”, the blank being filled in with the applicable name of the variety of cheese.
(3) In the case of cheddar cheese, washed curd cheese, colby cheese, granular cheese, and brick cheese made from unpasteurized milk, each such cheese shall bear a legible mark on the cheese showing the date at which the preliminary manufacturing process has been completed and at which date curing commences, and to each such cheese or its wrapper or immediate container shall be affixed a removable tag reading “___ cheese made from unpasteurized milk. For completion of curing and proper labeling, or for labeling as ___ cheese for manufacturing”, the blank being filled in with the applicable name of the variety of cheese.
(g) The label declaration of a harmless marker used to identify a particular manufacturer's product may result in unfair competition through revealing a trade secret. Exemption from the label declaration of such a marker is granted, therefore, provided that the following conditions are met:
(1) The person desiring to use the marker without label declaration of its presence has submitted to the Commissioner of Food and Drugs full information concerning the proposed usage and the reasons why he believes label declaration of the marker should be subject to this exemption; and
(2) The person requesting the exemption has received from the Commissioner of Food and Drugs a finding that the marker is harmless and that the exemption has been granted.
(h) Wrapped fish fillets of nonuniform weight intended to be unpacked and marked with the correct weight at or before the point of retail sale in an establishment other than that where originally packed shall be exempt from the requirement of section 403(e)(2) of the act during introduction and movement in interstate commerce and while held for sale prior to weighing and marking:
(1) Provided, That (i) The outside container bears a label declaration of the total net weight; and
(ii) The individual packages bear a conspicuous statement “To be weighed at or before time of sale” and a correct statement setting forth the weight of the wrapper;
(2) Provided further, That it is the practice of the retail establishment to weigh and mark the individual packages with a correct net-weight statement prior to or at the point of retail sale. A statement of the weight of the wrapper shall be set forth so as to be readily read and understood, using such term as “wrapper tare—ounce”, the blank being filled in with the correct average weight of the wrapper used.
(3) The act of delivering the wrapped fish fillets during the retail sale without the correct net-weight statement shall be deemed an act which results in the product's being misbranded while held for sale. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as requiring net-weight statements for wrapped fish fillets delivered into institutional trade provided the outside container bears the required information.
(i) Wrapped clusters (consumer units) of bananas of nonuniform weight intended to be unpacked from a master carton or container and weighed at or before the point of retail sale in an establishment other than that where originally packed shall be exempt from the requirements of section 403(e)(2) of the act during introduction and movement in interstate commerce and while held for sale prior to weighing:
(1) Provided, That (i) The master carton or container bears a label declaration of the total net weight; and
(ii) The individual packages bear a conspicuous statement “To be weighed at or before the time of sale” and a correct statement setting forth the weight of the wrapper; using such term as “wrapper tare _ ounce”, the blank being filled in with the correct average weight of the wrapper used;
(2) Provided further, That it is the practice of the retail establishment to weigh the individual packages either prior to or at the time of retail sale.
(3) The act of delivering the wrapped clusters (consumer units) during the retail sale without an accurate net weight statement or alternatively without weighing at the time of sale shall be deemed an act which results in the product's being misbranded while held for sale. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as requiring net-weight statements for clusters (consumer units) delivered into institutional trade, provided that the master container or carton bears the required information 
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#92 Old 02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
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trans fat is code for animal fat.


No its not, most trans fats used in food products are from hydrogenated VEGETABLE oil
 

Quote:
  jif used trans fat.



they do, but its clearly labeled as from vegetable oil
 

 

Quote:

Ingredients:

MADE FROM ROASTED PEANUTS AND SUGAR, CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF: MOLASSES, FULLY HYDROGENATED VEGETABLE OILS (RAPESEED AND SOYBEAN), MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, SALT.


I don't wanna sound mean but with you being so sure of yourself I feel fine saying that you are just woefully misinformed
 

 

Quote:
they do not list the Amino Acids, (thats animal sourced)


Funny because i have a whole bottle of aminos at home from soybeans.
Are you saying that Jif adds amino acids from animals to their peanut butter? If so PROVE IT.
 

 

Quote:
anything with artificial color, thats from animals

Bull****, thats just hilarious. That might be true of some NATURAL colors. ARTIFICIAL colors are generally petroleum products. Please, name some artificial colors sourced from animals

 

 

Quote:
i was just saying that jif is not vegan it uses Beta Carotene

wait I thought we were talking about trans fats???? Beta Carotene is vegan anyways, in common in many vegetables.

 

 

Quote:
anything and everything  -hydrogenated


No, you can hydrogenate vegetable oil
 

 

Quote:
diglycerides

these can be and usually are made from plant oils

 

 

Quote:

anything with -DNA/ RNA


Ok I'm done, this may get me thrown in Veggieboard jail for typing but that has to but one of the strangest and just plain wrong things Ive seen in a long time


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#93 Old 02-02-2013, 09:37 PM
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Ok  hear me out ----  trans fat-  naturally,  (meaning found in nature)  by definition and chemistry and biology standards.  is only found in animals.  humans are animals as well lets not forget but laws protect us from having our parts and pieces taken and manipulated and fed back to the masses.( and tested on thanks to the regulations set forth after the tuskegee project got busted)      so animals not protected by the laws man has created of themselves, animals are subject to the measures of  gov't and sciences manipulations.  trans fat =   Without process  is a specific section of animal body that produced these fats from specific parts of animals- no where else can trans fats be found.   fat - just like in the human body broken down to its fundamental composition are atoms.  specific atoms  no other atoms-  just these specific ones (Carbon, hydrogen and oxygen) combined have a reacting factor.  the atomic structure combination hey form different structural combinations of each and each structural grouping  called chains form lipids.  lipids are the collective of these atoms in a chain sequence are what we call fats and dependent on the variables of growth (or getting fatter/fat getting fatter) in the body they form chains.  (Amino acids are lipids)  lipids molecule unlike no other they are  classified by how they isolate themselves not their composition.  they are extracted from plants or animal  not that that is what is mostly used animals and plants are the only options. Lipids operate and are classified by function.    so in order to mimic nature we have to trick it and make it think it is its own self replicating by own action of sequencing.  to do so the atomic elemental structure ( as with any atomic structure or element and so forth causing rapid heat while combining the like particle will conjoin them and depending on the elements forms the structures of everything that is in the universe. ( your computer nail polish , grass the words on this page. dust mites in the corner, everything of everything of everything.   The Trans fat. you speak of and the hydrogenated vegetable oil (any oil)  first, there are no "most trans fats"  trans fat is from the same particle makeup from the same animals and the same sections- and hydrogenated fully or partially is the same thing.

trans fat has only one configuration .  just like configuration of water- H20     if its not H20 its not water and if it is H20 its water.  so elements depending on their bonds form staple that are not transferable.  for ex; whats H20, the answer is not carbon monoxide.   trans fat is a molecular structure that is mimicked ( which has to be used to mimic)  in order for the body to injest something that is either beneficial or not harmful it has to be in the body already.  for instance if mud was a preservative lets say we couldnt use mud to preserve something we injest non harmfully or to be beneficial because we dont have mud in our bodies. Fat is in the human body all animals have fat in them. trans fat  is an isomer and can be transformed and transferred from one thing to another.    because its a trans isomer.  it means that from itself another was cloned so, 

one of two or more substances with identical molecular formulas but different configurations, differing only in the arrangement of their component atoms. It usually refers to stereoisomers (rather than constitutional isomers or tautomers; or isomerism, tautomerism), of which there are two types. Optical isomers, or enantiomers occur in mirror-image pairs. Geometric isomers are often the result of rigidity in the molecular structure- in organic compounds, this is usually due to a double bond or a ring structure. In the case of a double bond between two carbon atoms, if each has two other groups bonded to it and all are rigidly in the same plane, the corresponding groups can be on the same side (cis) of the CC bond or across the CC bond (trans) from each other. An analogous distinction can be made for ring structures that are all in a plane, between isomers whose substituent groups are on the same side and isomers whose substituent groups are on both sides of the plane. Diastereomers that are not enantiomers also fall into this category. Most cis-trans isomers are organic compounds. so if you are in a lab and you want to formulate a trans fat (from an animal)  thats not from an animal, maybe a vegetable or plant  you would have to isolate in your new item- the same elemental components of what it is your trying to mimic.  say almonds  if you wanted a clone of trans fat (because its structure behaves and functions to serve many purposes)  and make it with another you would have to isolate the elememts in your almond to stand alone by freezing them ( freezing slows the movements of the atoms down really slow stopping time just about so slow you can see its atomic structure     gather them    and then collide them through energy/rapid accelerations like heat and they will bond. Only trans isomers dont bond by latching all to all touching  they form chains so your new integration is mirroring the acceptance by linking on. and they double bond so  so they integrate with both compounds ( your almond carbon will bond with a hydrogen of the trans fat (animal origin structure its mimicking)  Then you do this so much (adding your almonds  carbon hydrogen and oxygens) they link like as in  if a field of people were holding hands ( as opposed to other atomic bonds where the bond would be if a field of people had to touch hip bones together in order to form)    so in doing this by rapidly firing you hydrogen atoms at the chain it just keeps linking until yours overpowers the trans fat from animals and there you have your trans fat hydrogenated anything oil.  The USDA and the FDA speak of these guidelines and the "new fats"  hydrogenated   fully   partially   vegetable or mineral  has to have 5 percent or under in accordance to the bulk your making so if your manufacturing say 50 tons of these fats and however you want to call the "new version'  2.5 tons is trans fat ..You can figure out if a food contains trans fat by doing a little detective work. On the information label, find the total fat content. Then, subtract the saturated fat and the mono and polyunsaturated fats. This leaves the trans fat. So, for example, if chocolate chip cookies have 12 grams of fat per serving and the label lists 4 grams of saturated fat, the cookies also have 8 grams of trans fat.

Another way to tell is to look at the list of ingredients. A food label must list the ingredients in order of quantity, from most to least. If hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils are listed early on the list and before polyunsaturated or monounsaturated oils, you know the product contains lots of trans fat. If the label lists unsaturated or monounsaturated oils, olive oil, or canola oil first, the fats are probably okay. Some experts contend that trans fats make up 25 to 60 percent of all fats contained in processed food, and 15 to 30 percent of the total intake of dietary fat. Others disagree, saying the numbers are much lower. Sometimes the label "trans-fat free" truly means there are no partially or fully hydrogenated oils in the product. Unfortunately, there's a loophole in the labeling laws, so you can't always be sure. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) labeling law allows food manufacturers to claim their products are trans-fat free as long as an individual serving of the food has less than 0.5 grams of trans fat. There are no requirements for how large the serving size is, and, of course, as soon as you eat more than one serving you may be unknowingly consuming trans fats in significant quantities. Interestingly, the Institute of Medicine has claimed that any amount of trans fat is unsafe.
The only way to be sure that you're not getting any trans fat is to scour the ingredient list on the label for partially or fully hydrogenated oils. Or we can all skip this hassle altogether and eat home-cooked and fresh foods.
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#94 Old 02-03-2013, 04:56 AM
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Seems like you are confused about what trans fat is, lotsa misinformation in your posts here.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/FatsAndOils/Fats101/Trans-Fats_UCM_301120_Article.jsp
"Trans fats (or trans fatty acids) are created in an industrial process that adds hydrogen to liquid vegetable oils to make them more solid. Another name for trans fats is “partially hydrogenated oils."
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#95 Old 02-03-2013, 06:45 AM
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I gotta applaud the effort :slow clap:

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#96 Old 02-03-2013, 09:38 AM
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Rna/Dna = is in anything that has been alive . they are in all known living organisms, DNA and RNA are in every vaccine known to man.  are used as medicines  injectables, anti aging reducing infection injections.   Given as a shot for shingles, hives, psoriasis  flu  etc.   The question is....who or what DNA/RNA is it?  From plant or animal or lab?   the RNA/DNA in our foods does not specify whether these proteins/acids are sourced from.

 

beta carotene  is vegan sure found naturally and with great benefits and natural that holds a moral value for you and I however, corporations dont give a hootinanny about what is right or what is real or organic. they have synthesized it along with vitamin A  and retinol and animal sourced it.   also beta carotene in supplements are synthetic and dependent on your conceptual perception  check out the huge animal study they are doing   it just started  last december   lab research has begun to test synthetic beta carotenes effects on or damage to lungs  and also when mixed with carciogens like cigarette smoke or car exhaust fumes you in measure of one would walking or being near traffic or engined on cars.   

These corporations are stealing the nature of good and the good of nature out from under us for a profit. 

 

The artificial flavors i apologize  i misspoke  i meant the non artificial. That was my mistake you are correct.

Im a vegan and I abhor animal suffering   factory farming  CAFO's  Lab testing  and I love animals sooooooo much that i dont want to contribute to these practices in ANY way shape or form. I dedicate my being    my every thought wish, prayer, hope endeavor, research motivation, every stitch of my being and every thread throughout is in dedication to this.  I dont let nothing get unnoticed, when it comes to speaking out and unveiling of whats going on.  my every prayer i ever say is well wishing and asks to the universe for help to help them. pleas to make it stop.  I would trample a small child if i had to.  That may not be right or sound off   but i would.     

and if i had to give my life to stop i would faster than a blink   and i have children.   so thats just me 

as in life - even in ingredients they are silenced.  

you seemed as if i was going against you in past texts you sounded P'Oed  but for me in my argument in defense of animals i go by the weight of evidence  

take this list for ex. in this site below  google some of these words and click on a couple sites that have info if i cant get atleast a one "HOLY ****" from you.  i wont ever negate you again its interesting and able to defend either one of us.  

Scroll down you will see an alphabet and the rolodex of things on the right side started with A's and through the whole alphabet etc.   

 

http://www.veganwolf.com/animal_ingredients.htm

 

although there are some ingredient names that are sourced from plant and animal as noted.  I ask-- what is cheaper for the person/company when a   specific ingredient their product needs has to be acquired?  To the person/company who has to buy this ingredient  or making the calls to get this specific ingredient for their product that has a function.   Say its a new hair gel or an energy bar    and the gel is too watery clumpy and needs smoother texture to the feel or the energy bar isnt surviving the raise to the mouth cause it crumbling and needs something to make it stick together more ...   and either the person comes up with or is told what is needed to solve your desired outcome or required to benefit it for greater consumer appeal.  or someone lets you know you need such and such   say an oil =  say coconut oil to make the gel more gel like or a gelatin base additive  and for the energy bar marshmallows or a dark chocolate fudge would compliment and accomplish desired out come.  So you look into it and coconut oil for your quantity needed was 799 $ per gallon drum and you needed enough to mass produce or produce in a way to sell your product and grow so you need 2,000 drums  or Gelatin is an option and gelatin comes in powder form 420 lbs (Equivalent to a gallon drum of liquid) is 388.00 $   so you have natural (vegan) oil at 799$  or gelatin (the product/substance that rises to the top from boiling an animals ligaments, tendons and joints and tissues)  at 388 both equal quantity of what is needed. (sure it a no brainer for us, ) the rest of the world doesnt operate like that....  they want to save spend less and make more.  mno matter what the expense or at whose .  or the energy bar ----marshmallows  made from boiling animals hooves= 95 lbs of regular campfire marshmallows (would be the size of a mid sized car )   95 lbs of cereal sized marshmallows for 250.00$  or dark chocolate fudge. for 5 $  a lb   5x95 =1,425$ .  everyone would get the marshmallows.  sure someone will get the other side, but probability, economics, marketing, convenience and affordability shadows everyone else trying to do the right thing. the ones who choose the nicer side of ingredients  but  fast paced  corporation big wigs are making it harder and harder for the ones who just want these animals to be free and left alone and not to hurt and acknowledge to them that they are loved and that there is love in this world for them because they are in our hearts and minds all our days. but corporations are pushing us away and treading the terrain deeper for us to surface  and then they are  paying congress and lobbyists to lavish votes. And now NOT ONLY thus far were we languishing behind our kind and our own laws and the lawmakers who make or break our own human rights- that we cant get to agree as to whether abortion is murder. We are never going to get them to agree that killing animals is murder and now we have corporation gimmicks utilizing USDA in mass quantities and incorporating their wealth into congress  they are just continuing the cycle of the violence making it so commonplace its heart breaking     we as humans have lost our moral compass-  the apathy is pathetic- and i can go on and on.   you think of animals that are farmed and all their positions and plight and condition and it hurts just by looking in  then you feel -  im hurt looking in   imagine them looking out ! for every second of every day of every moment and for us just a glimpse!!!!   And if thats not bad enough the what we do to their minds. their dignity, then their bodies, their mother  their fathers their children   these things among countless --endless  atrocities  and then our forefathers and standard setters and rule makers and breakers at the USDA and their codings let the remnants of these tortured souls be in the very thread of our whole existence i know vegan and veganism is on the rise but my golly!!! They use animals parts for everything and anything and then rename them to something is unrecognizable  to those who didnt take particle physics or study Latin or Greek to pick up derivatives of words that would suggest it     because the animal part becomes a part of or a modification to make something better or is an ingredient to an ingredient.   Its so sick that they just recycled into lifes objects of matter and function and so discretley that no one minds and no one cares enough because corporations are dangling things that occupy us and distract us while they continue to degrade the energy all around in the name of convenience and consume whats in arms reach of us because our concentrations are being controlled by consoles and controllers controlling our concentrations  We consume everything  while Big corporations are  taking over everything they are taking over what we consume and how we consume it  while they are  consuming our money they become in control. they then consume our consumption  and the USDA who is "concerned" with our consumption  is really regulating our guidelines to control our consumerism because they want us to buy what they are selling and that is animal products  and while we are so distracted they are interweaving their products and byproducts into everything-  so much so that we dont even notice and it becomes our normal  and to undo everything would just be a spiral into madness.  Agriculture is big business the biggest business in the world they make the most money collectively and no one  can afford to take them on  so we just let happen and justify it by the knowing of that there is nothing one can do.  Agricultures bread and butter is not only the muscles that they say we must eat in order to survive that they call meat. but after that  the use of their parts and their parts come in the bodies of animals and there are thousands of parts in each one.  i cant even .....

 

Case in point they never call an animal part or piece what it really is  like meat  why not call it what it is-- muscle  or.how bout .... brains.....sweet breads?!.....really!!!   the list goes on and on and thats why i am going after ingredients The USDA and APHIS prospectus, plans for years ahead of time, their mission statements, research reports, regulatory inspection. the AMS and MRP plan and data duty sheets  Aphis -GIPSA -The CNPP , FNS  ARS   policy  guidelines, coordination, educations for all  import and exporting plans procedures, products and costs ( i.e its cheaper for the US to export our grown and harvested commodities and import the like commodities from other countries than it is to distribute our own grown stuff around our own   country  take cotton for example  the cotton supplies we have in the US momentarily are from China.  thats just an example of the millions of other things 

  This is what i do all day every day. The USDA - Agriculture - Aphis  They are sneaky   they work on a we dont tell unless you ask but if you find out dont call them or bother them because "they publish everything''  which relinquishes them from reliability of public complaint and action set forth upon the organization.  them  but you have to be clever in your search on their site and publication searches. and they move them and switch them around and take them down and circulate them for every rule theirs an exemption and for statutes there are subclauses which inevitably make standards of practice and regulations open to loopholes  

 how about i stop nailing my point into the ground and i show you what i mean   i think there are 7 pages this mission plan from the USDA  for Agriculture research implementing its strategic plan as it does every 2 years but this one they are carrying out till 2017  is about animal product and the capitalizing research of how to implement products of animals to utilize agriculture ( which is the writer of this report) to the best of its ability if you read page 4 it talks of integrating animal products into the efficacy of   enhancing and bettering products, performance and measures and how animal products can be integrated into the ingredients of the  ingredients of our food supply  (4.1.1.) under performance measures page 4

 

http://www.ars.usda.gov/aboutus/docs.htm?docid=1766&page=4

 

 mind you  this whole report of these pages is for animal product integration for utilization of animal product   because objective 1.2 contribute to agriculture production says it all ( basicially meat prices are so competitive we need to find ways to integrate the other parts of the animal and incorporate them into high end products that differentiate the US our products from world competitors and also  what we come up with to do with the usable products of the animals body pieces and parts that  enhance the quality of products already out there we can add to!!!!!!

 

"Intense competition in global markets and pressure on U.S. farm policy to reduce price supports emphasize the need for American agriculture to pursue and market higher value agricultural products. Research must respond to consumer demands for more healthful and safe products to ensure a sustainable and profitable agricultural production system that capitalizes on an abundant source of raw material for value-added food, fiber, and industrial products. These superior technologies must effectively differentiate U.S. agricultural products from competing sources and provide customers with value-added processes that enhance product quality.

 
ARS will develop and disseminate science-based information to provide U.S. producers of agricultural products with increased flexibility to effectively manage unforeseen risks that affect profitability and product quality. U.S. agricultural production and marketability is constantly influenced by factors such as unpredictable weather, disease and outbreaks, and changing consumer demands. Use of genetically diverse germplasm resource collections and best management practices requires research that helps improve production efficiency and productivity through the development of pest resistant varieties and information to facilitate decision making...          
 
                                The End
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#97 Old 02-03-2013, 01:46 PM
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Xiola, Ive been vegan for quite a while, you dint need to link me to list of hidden animal ingredients. I'm well aware of the various uses for animal products, but your claims that most peanut butter including Jif brand are not vegan specifically because they contain animal fats is just plain false.

If my feathers seem ruffled perhaps it because of the arrogance with which you insist that a staple of many vegan diets is actually not vegan, this insults the intelligence of every vegan who eats peanut butter. This forum is a magnet for new vegetarians and vegans who often time are very confuses about what actually contains animal ingredients...they don't need you confusing them further and scaring them away from one of the best vegan food ever invented.
 

 

 

Quote:
also beta carotene in supplements are synthetic

Who care!? I dont. Its vegan.
 

 

Quote:
Im a vegan and I abhor animal suffering   factory farming  CAFO's  Lab testing  and I love animals sooooooo much that i dont want to contribute to these practices in ANY way shape or form.

Well then stop trying to preach about peanut butter...your computer probably has more animal products in it than a jar of Jif (which again doesn't contain any)

 

 

Quote:

although there are some ingredient names that are sourced from plant and animal as noted.  I ask-- what is cheaper for the person/company when a   specific ingredient their product needs has to be acquired?


so you are assuming that the animal derived version is always the cheaper one and therefor the one always use? Have you ever bothered to call a company and ask about the source of one of these ingredients? I have, Ive called dozens and your assumption just doesn't hold up. In many case the vegetable derived version is the preferred version by industry, take mono and diglycerides for example, the majority of companies use vegetable derived version, not the animal derived version.

 

 

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And now NOT ONLY thus far were we languishing behind our kind and our own laws and the lawmakers who make or break our own human rights- that we cant get to agree as to whether abortion is murder.

Its random comments like this that make me think you may be a troll

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#98 Old 02-03-2013, 01:48 PM
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So let me get this straight are you STILL claiming that Jif peanut butter (regular, creamy) is not vegan because it contains an animal product? If so, remind us again what that animal product is and then cite the source of this information.


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#99 Old 02-03-2013, 03:42 PM
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  I get the Suma organic stuff from a local veg cooperative...... reading all this has made me seriously want some. I stopped buying it just because I get through a jar a week easy. 

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#100 Old 02-03-2013, 03:54 PM
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Whoa there. New vegetarians/vegans, attention. JIF AND MOST PEANUT BUTTERS ARE VEGAN. AMINO ACIDS ARE NOT LIPIDS. And lots of other things are wrong in this thread.
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#101 Old 02-03-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

Whoa there. New vegetarians/vegans, attention. JIF AND MOST PEANUT BUTTERS ARE VEGAN. AMINO ACIDS ARE NOT LIPIDS. And lots of other things are wrong in this thread.



Yeah, while we can all disagree about a lot of things I almost think there should be some kind of disclaimer on posts like Xiola's
 

 

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AMINO ACIDS ARE NOT LIPIDS

srsly WTF, thanks for pointing that out, I missed it in the wall of text


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#102 Old 02-06-2013, 10:42 PM
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Amino acids are IN lipids.  Was my intention to write. It was an oversight. 

 

My comment about the FF and CAFO that you replied to 'go back to' and leave peanut butter alone.   Its all connected. The rest of the animal is already sold to companies who use what they uses as additives and enhancements.  

I do not know what a troll is and YES I am still claiming Jif is NOT vegan( Because it still is not vegan)   I sent you that list because that list so you can see the acids that are animal sourced. When they are added to other things they are no longer subject to be listed as an ingredient because by measure what it is being added to is of greater volume. 

 As for Jif    Its owned by Smuckers.   J M Smuckers Co.  The brands manufacturing part of his company in Ohio. The other end of the company is in Pennsylvania . In Pa they have pig and chicken farms and meat processing plants that double as slaughterhouses.  They also have a slaughterghouse and processing plant for deer.  They also have another facility called Smuckers meats where they process and sell the non meat of the animal.    

Both sides of the company and others had started a proposition political campaign last year (2012) called -The Coalition Against The Costly Food Labeling Proposition"   To stop people from trying to enforce them to label every single thing in their products .  Which he is no stranger to.  He has never been in compliance and he has gotten so many letters of ingredient claim non compliancy as well as failure to list.   Here are some of those letters ( there are 8 pages but not a complete list.  one of the things you click on when you go back it doesnt  bring you back( youll see only 3 pages to explore on bottom) you have to click back again to get to the 8 clickable pages of letters- its some glitch

(besides why would you want to buy a product from a company who intertwined with Con Agra so much. (the biggest factory farmers)  it seems counterproductive.n  

You told me to leave your peanut alone. I have no problem with what you eat. You implied your such a professional vegan but dont go saying something is vegan when it is not.

  Look at the GRAS then you will know all about it.  Ingredients that dont have to be registered because they have been proved to cause no harm  (the majority is animal sourced)  they have a list at  FDA .    

So LIKE I SAID ( which you said i was wrong)  products being mass produced this peanut butter and other products. when they are certified the new labeling system it will have VEGAN on its labeling.    

 

How do I know this.. Started in 2002 with APHIS IES 2005-2007     USDA  APHIS strategic planning 2007 -2010  

Currently FSIS LPDD division     There my disclaimer. 

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#103 Old 02-07-2013, 12:51 AM
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apologies

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#104 Old 02-07-2013, 11:34 AM
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MOD POST

 

Please get back on topic.

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#105 Old 02-09-2013, 10:48 AM
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So if I understand you correctly you are stating that there are animal sourced amino acids in the hydrogenated oil...?
Where did you get this information, none of your posts so far have said?



Quote:
I sent you that list because that list so you can see the acids that are animal sourced. When they are added to other things they are no longer subject to be listed as an ingredient because by measure what it is being added to is of greater volume.


But  added amino acids are not a part of making hydrogenated vegetable oil.

 

Quote:


when they are certified the new labeling system it will have VEGAN on its labeling.  


what "new labeling system"


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#106 Old 02-13-2013, 09:31 PM
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Yes  100 %    The Hydrogenation process is not just to treat with Hydrogen.  But it is to treat with hydrogen and another element or compound using a catalyst  

In terms of our conversations   Hydrogen would be hydrogen, the other element or compound would be the oil of such outcome "Hydrogenated" such and such"   and the catalyst would be what this hydrogen infusion is trying to mimic.   Remember before I mentioned the hydrogen forming the bonds on the tran isomer that when hydrogen infused,  forms mirror geometric bonds that mimic the function of what it is mirroring forming chains. These chains get built up and and built up to where it has its limits for each volume.  However the catalyst of which it is working off of, the original substance is always present   (  taking an animal fat that has this form to function that has trans isomer capabilities and using that (as a catalyst) to manipulate bonds by hydrogen infusion,  that acts in the very same way but instead of using the original substance ( the fat in animal parts) It is mimicked and made to think its the original product (but its not its manipulated to think its), its own kind and continues to  bond and multi-plicate .  Hydrogenation is adding hydrogen to molecules turning them into new ones with different properties. The molecules are that of the ones from animals and in hydro blasting them they are multi plicated.    The result being you now have the function of the original ( animal based product) but have now mimicked that and the result is that you overrode the original ingredient with the hydrogen linkage of your new formula,  that being whatever oil you are using.  But the catalyst will always be there because it is that foundation you are linking off of.  I also mentioned trans fat and what that means in food production is fat from animals.  the hydrogenated outcome in the form of whatever oil someone is using is built off of a trans fat that is animal sourced.   Because again the goal is to mimick what nature can do and in this term nature is the product of an animal that was found to do and are looking to replace.  It does however have its rules  The FDA states that there can be no more than .5 grams per serving of these fats (that the FDA calls trans fats) and can still be labeled having zero grams   so as long as everyone keeps it below .5 per serving it is considered having zero in  the eyes of the FDA.  

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#107 Old 02-13-2013, 10:36 PM
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Yes 100% meaning the hydrogenation chain link is originated by an animal sourced start- then hydrogen induced to replicate the chain.  The replication (man made) is replicating natures way ( the animal source )   as for amino acids- no    I mentioned amino acids are IN lipids as a reference of relation.  And the list that has the acids has a generous amount of acids from animals ( animal sourced) that get added and 'washed out'  of the 'list' of ingredients because in the grand scheme of things in the amounts that they are making has to measure a certain percentage of the whole for it is to be listable.   Manufacturers HATE listing EVERY little thing . it tedious and some foods the ingredients would take up the whole packaging. ( that Act of 2012  that Smuckers was behind stated just that) 

new labeling system    The USDA regulates things to measure.  The USDA whose Vested interest is in animal products ( thats why is :"good' for you says the USDA , they want you to buy what they are selling)

Labeling works on the manufacturers word.  The manufacturor fills out their own labeling,  No one ever really gets 'caught'  unless someone investigates.  

however using animal products because of disease and rotting factors.  subjects regulatory inspections,  upkeep  and all sorts of regulatory rules, conduct etc.   i.e http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Regulations_&_Policies/Labeling_Guidance/index.asp

see it goes by 'trust" unless someone notices otherwise and this goes beyond meat being the main ingredient .

VEGAN labeling your au naturale-  your getting a phone call and sample submission.  getting yourself labeled VEGAN and proven so, drops all that invasive inspection and most of all the regulatory regulations that come with animal product use.  so also you can see why no one is readily and for giving the animal sources.   it puts you in the institution.  of the USDA   whereas the new labeling of VEGAN is like your VIP pass at universal studios  .   Any of this information you can find on APHIS  USDA   FSIS  or LPDD  .   if there is something very specific let me know I will find it and link you it.  

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#108 Old 02-13-2013, 11:21 PM
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"hydrogenation chain link is originated by an animal sourced start- then hydrogen induced to replicate the chain. "

This is just plain false.

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#109 Old 02-13-2013, 11:27 PM
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"VEGAN labeling your au naturale-  your getting a phone call and sample submission.  getting yourself labeled VEGAN and proven so, drops all that invasive inspection and most of all the regulatory regulations that come with animal product use.  so also you can see why no one is readily and for giving the animal sources.   it puts you in the institution.  of the USDA   whereas the new labeling of VEGAN is like your VIP pass at universal studios  .   Any of this information you can find on APHIS  USDA   FSIS  or LPDD  ."

What are you even talking about, there are no federal regulations on the word "vegan" much less federally regulated vegan labels that give you some kind of regulatory fast pass. I really think you are just making stuff up or are really really confused.

The only vegan labels in the US are one put there by individual manufacturers or by third party organizations. And while the third party labels like those from the Vegan Society there still are trustworthy there are products on the shelf with animal products such as honey. If you really think that vegan labeling is reliable and gives companies a regulatory fast pass then you have deep misconceptions about the food system.

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#110 Old 02-14-2013, 01:26 AM
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Hydrogenation can only be done to a particular molecular structure.    One cant just do it from nothing.   Hydrogenation serves one purpose -  shelf life.   in nature, found naturally without messing with anything.  ( depending on the animal ) that particular "natural make up"  i( specific fat on an animal) is what was used.    Its the only thing found in nature that did it or does it.   As science has come its way we have learned that we can mimick nature but in doing so we need that piece of nature to "start" the fire  then we can add whatever we find keeps the fire burning and burns the best.  hence how we get the extensions of it now in whatever oil that says its hydrogenated.    Hydrogenation is an artificial way of keeping a chain bond going. ( by keeping it going the molecules have to be in there)  It adds hydrogen to fats that makes oil basically.  When i was explaining the chains and i mentioned the fats thus lipids.  (when i said amino are lipids when i meant IN lipids) and the cis process from triglycerides    which are catalysts.   catalyst are required for the reaction to not only be usable but to exist.   Just like linking a chain- its no different but that initial link has to be there to link the chain(s) 

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#111 Old 02-14-2013, 02:49 AM
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Sure  That goes the same with any food . who can you trust? I am with you 100 percent. However,  If you buy animal products ( quantity, commercial use etc)  you are registered with the USDA  ( even if you have the animal alive an intact for commercial use its registered)  That list then gets handed off to the FDA  the usda is the supplier the FDA is the regulator.   If your on the list you can be regulated, regulation means $$$ -   $$$ means inspections, fees, compliance, allowable usage compliant by law etc all equalling BIG $$$'s    if your on that list your more susceptible to inspection than anyone else. ( that list is long and not everyone gets seen and if you intricatly went each by each they are about 3-6 yrs behind ( depending because plants and factories are doubling and tripling +++ up so 2, 3 birds with one stone....)  Matter of fact the products i use have never been on one list of inspections in 8 yrs i have been looking and I look once that list is available.  I even type in companies and products for cross reference from leaping bunny.  Not one hit, EVER.    

Back to our discussion   Genetically modifying food to date has no law saying you have disclose your ingredients.   To date if you eat a GMO you have no rights to know whats in your food.  ZERO they dont have to label it. They dont have to tell you.  Prop 37 out of California is the only initiative working on anything.    http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/37/arguments-rebuttals.htm

However, not telling and telling you are two different things.  Not telling will get you letters of non compliance. Published non compliance status' etc.   

But stating your product is something and its not will get you yanked from shelves. Recalls and MILLIONS of dollars in fines.  

With label registration there is laboratory analysis.  Everyone must pay an additional 995$ per product when they register this test is an analysis that assures your label information is accurate or if you're buying from another supplier, an analysis can validate information they have provided.

A label with information based on FDA requirements can help avoid FDA detentions.  Basically if your label says it has dietary, nutritional, or specific specifications or value  this test is to assure your label has what it states.  However as with all mass institutions   it only does what is required and that is does your label have what it says it does. Same thing if you said it was Kosher and it wasnt. ( or bioengineered or food allergens)   You will not be getting just a fine your getting yanked.   Even third part labelers there still is manufacturer responsibility.  the final label has to be FDA approved you cant add on to a label after its registered you cant even change the font without reregistering it.   There is no chasing product people around with a whodunit.   That is also why this analysis is required, so if your getting from somewhere else the integrity falls short before the FDA before they pass it. If they pass it they are vouching for it.   As for the FDA and their definition of Vegan they have one. Its Vegetarian they cant get it straight on, because too many people have different definitions of what vegetarian is to them. the term is not the same across  the board ( nation)  Vegan however does have a definition, containing no animal product.  The USDA validating vegan would be like a crack head saying drugs are bad.   http://protectwhatsright.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/usdas-vegan-days-cancelled/
They LOST THEIR MINDS that this got past them and was about to actually happen.  (USDA validating not consuming meat or animal product at every swallow) 
However saying something on a label that has a clear definition of what it is without.    Its like saying " atkins diet compliant" and its high in carbohydrates and they found out or someone consumed it under the dietary label statement . its not happening . youll get pulled and fined theres a saying in the labeling business   what they dont know wont hurt them but what they find out might kill us.    so labeling integrity is big business. it doesnt so much matter what you dont say but what you do say and what you say it s without -Vegan (=no animal product) falls on the FDA.  and the FDA is fine happy you dont have to give them a second. They dont even need to blink to think its already written up.  They fine first ask questions later.    
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#112 Old 02-14-2013, 03:08 AM
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I just saw you were from CA. apologies on the reference to The GMO prop.  Preaching to the choir my apologies.   However my stomping grounds Washington D.C and New York do not yet have the ballad  to which CA is always ahead of the curve.  So you guys are doing something right over there. Ballads of that sort always get distracted and die out over here.  I wish we had that same passion for initiative out this way.  

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I can take myself out of myself and realize the other side which in this case would be you.  And being as skeptical as you are , and if i was such so- I would be cursing at the screen and repeating F this B.  I get your view.  But Imagine ME.....I live with this stuff .  I want to punch somebody in the face every day!!    " Why doesnt the label say this? "  what do you mean if they dont disclose it and its not an allergen or nutritional value is not label worthy?"  But that is an animal source base!"   Are you kidding me?!' """"       Thats my head every single day!!!!!   The animal sourced anything should be ingredient number ONE! ( If I were queen) Thats the most important ingredient, The life that was lost.  The life that was lost in the ingredients!!!   Thats what weighs the most if you ask me.     I am not projecting my feelings Im unsilencing the silenced.   For me to say there is animal product in something when there is not is like manifesting it true.  I dont want that.  I wish it werent true. its heart wrenching at the least.   

Heres where the problem is- you cant go back and redo labels already out there that millions of dollars in fees and reissuing prints etc.  they can only be heeded of new labels coming in.   Then it becomes like judgments in laws "well this this so and so did this and thats what they did and thats what they got"    like Marshmallows '  _ The boiling of animals animals cartilage and bones-   not an ingredient right?   no-   cause its a process  not label worthy.   

I can go mad going on about his. but what can i do? i remain a minion toiling for change and dropping seeds.  while i type and file paperwork hoping a seed will spring.   hoping  in the meantime i can hold the insurmountable need ( not want) to punch somebody out.   If i could I would bring a pig in and say look into those eyes..... and watch this pig get murdered and you then tell me what matters when it comes to prioritizing and what gets left out of labeling? !!!!!!!      ( sorry I just had to get that out! )  

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#114 Old 02-14-2013, 04:25 AM
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To hydrogenate oil, they add hydrogen atoms to unsaturated oils and heat it up. Are you saying the hydrogen atoms ate animal-sourced?

I really don't understand any of your posts tbh, or how animal products are in Jif, so keep it simple for me, please. Maybe with a direct link?
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#115 Old 02-14-2013, 04:25 AM
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*are animal sourced
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#116 Old 02-14-2013, 05:50 AM
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NOOOOOw!  Hydrogen atoms are not animal sourced.  LOL   ( I know you were saying that in jest)    Hydrogenating is a process. (adding hydrogen to something)    if you scroll back posts the rants are all there.   It started with Jif then I ranted on to labeling in general . Links for Jif or molecules/cells of animals being used in processes and uses in foods? 

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#117 Old 02-14-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Xiola Schaefer View Post

Yes 100% meaning the hydrogenation chain link is originated by an animal sourced start- then hydrogen induced to replicate the chain.  The replication (man made) is replicating natures way ( the animal source )  ............
  if there is something very specific let me know I will find it and link you it.  

Can u share a link explaining why you are saying hydrogenated oils are from animal sources? And a link explaining why products like Jif pb are not vegan?
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#118 Old 02-14-2013, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiola Schaefer View Post

NOOOOOw!  Hydrogen atoms are not animal sourced.  LOL   ( I know you were saying that in jest)    Hydrogenating is a process. (adding hydrogen to something)    if you scroll back posts the rants are all there.   It started with Jif then I ranted on to labeling in general . Links for Jif or molecules/cells of animals being used in processes and uses in foods? 

A link for hydrogenizing vegetable oils in commercial pb using animal products please.
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#119 Old 02-14-2013, 11:08 AM
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As science has come its way we have learned that we can mimick nature but in doing so we need that piece of nature to "start" the fire


Stop repeating false assertions and just cite your source.

The moon is made of daiya, the moon is made of daiya, the moon is made of daiya...is it true now?


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#120 Old 02-14-2013, 11:28 AM
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As for the FDA and their definition of Vegan they have one.


CITE IT!!! stop making asserting, start making citations

There are products on the self right now that contain animal products but are labeled vegan and the FDA doesnt appear to give two sh*ts.


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