New York Times Invites Readers to Defend Carnism - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 03-28-2012, 11:33 AM
 
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Thanks for that. Now my curiosity is all fired up!

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#32 Old 03-28-2012, 01:28 PM
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That has to be an urban myth, what scientific basis could there be for it?

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#33 Old 03-28-2012, 01:50 PM
 
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That has to be an urban myth, what scientific basis could there be for it?

I found one link that said that vegans are less likely to have twins than meat eaters and particularly meat eaters who also drink milk (from cows which get hormones administered). But nothing about lower birth rates in general just because they are 'fourth generation' vegans. Are there any fourth generation vegans?
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#34 Old 04-06-2012, 02:29 PM
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The New York Times Only Asked Men To Discuss Meat Ethics So We Asked Carol J. Adams

Carol J. Adams weighs in on the Ethicist's All Male Panel

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
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#35 Old 04-21-2012, 01:03 AM
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And the finalists are in: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...#ethicistpoll1

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#36 Old 04-21-2012, 01:08 AM
 
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I don't see anything worth voting for.

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#37 Old 04-21-2012, 03:10 AM
 
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jesus those are worthless - some combination of stupid ("once such an animal has had her basic needs met, a painless death cannot harm her"), ill informed (ever heard of veganic gardening, or letting animals wander without killing them?), and written in an irritating pseudo-intellectual manner ("This is not cause to decry morality as too stern a master." Ooh.)

Just say you have a taste for killing and/or flesh, and get on with it. There's no defense other than selfishness. At least be honest about it.

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#38 Old 04-21-2012, 03:11 AM
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Yeah, I was playing Defensive Omnivore Bingo the whole time, pretty predictable

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#39 Old 04-21-2012, 03:22 AM
 
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I'm so sick of people, like i really want out of this world
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#40 Old 04-21-2012, 06:43 AM
 
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"For me, eating meat is ethical when one does three things. First, you accept the biological reality that death begets life on this planet and that all life (including us!) is really just solar energy temporarily stored in an impermanent form."


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#41 Old 04-21-2012, 07:14 AM
 
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Never heard the "eating meat is ethical because it helps our plants grow" line before.

I like how the first two arguments admit that the vast majority of meat is unethical and the third admits it's wrong, but says it's okay because nobody's perfect.

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#42 Old 04-21-2012, 02:45 PM
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Never heard the "eating meat is ethical because it helps our plants grow" line before.

I like how the first two arguments admit that the vast majority of meat is unethical and the third admits it's wrong, but says it's okay because nobody's perfect.

Yeah, that's what really made me smile reading these actually. These are supposed to be the finalists, the cream of the crop out of thousands of essays, and these are the best they could come up with. Weak sauce

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#43 Old 04-21-2012, 03:29 PM
 
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I didn't mind the "We Require Balance. Balance Requires Meat." one in the context of realism. If we are to continue to allow animals to be used for food, her ideology is good with the exception of:

"This is why eating meat is ethical. To not consume meat means to turn off a whole part of the natural world and to force production of food to move away from regenerative systems and to turn toward a system that creates larger problems for our world."

Why don't people who want to advocate sustainable foods-both plant and flesh- like vegans? They don't have a chance in he** to farm as she states without veganism.

She also makes good points for vegans in pointing out the cruelty of dairy and egg production.

Why do these people fear those who abhor animal products? There are so few farms like she promotes, so much overconsumption of meat - which she criticizes -yet she won't stand up for the very thing that would keep her profitable-veganism.
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#44 Old 04-21-2012, 03:58 PM
 
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Yeah, that's what really made me smile reading these actually. These are supposed to be the finalists, the cream of the crop out of thousands of essays, and these are the best they could come up with. Weak sauce


It kinda reminds me of when the creationists send forth their "best and brightest" and they get destroyed by even mediocre skeptics.

Tam! RUGH!
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#45 Old 04-21-2012, 05:23 PM
 
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A single mother of three, working two jobs, tries to decide how to feed her children on a Thursday evening; she opts for chicken over lentils, not knowing how to prepare the latter in a way that ensures consumption

Quote:
Suppose we choose time with our children or the feelings of our parents or the bounty befitting revelry over the lives of nonhuman animals.

Dude- it takes way less time to make lentils than chicken. And insanely easier and cheaper.
And how to prepare lentils? google? the box?

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#46 Old 04-21-2012, 05:35 PM
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Dude- it takes way less time to make lentils than chicken. And insanely easier and cheaper.
And how to prepare lentils? google? the box?

Yeah, that one in particular made NO sense to me at all. I can't believe it's a finalist.

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#47 Old 04-21-2012, 05:38 PM
 
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Dude- it takes way less time to make lentils than chicken. And insanely easier and cheaper.
And how to prepare lentils? google? the box?


"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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#48 Old 04-21-2012, 05:41 PM
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Attachment 18255
LL

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#49 Old 04-21-2012, 06:05 PM
 
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Red Lentils- 25 min
Green Lentils-45 min
Sprouted Lentils- 0 min
Chicken- Bone in breast 55-60 min, Boneless breast- 40-45 min

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#50 Old 04-21-2012, 06:52 PM
 
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Was that one your entry then?

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#51 Old 04-21-2012, 07:06 PM
 
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Dude- it takes way less time to make lentils than chicken. And insanely easier and cheaper.
And how to prepare lentils? google? the box?

Or you could just open the can like I do.

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#52 Old 04-22-2012, 04:21 AM
 
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The "Im About to Eat Meat for the First Time in 40 Years" one was really very good. It makes it clear that animal cruelty/ needless suffering is wrong. It points out the health and moral problems with consuming animals. It even draws the human-animal suffering parallel. I will vote for that one.
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#53 Old 04-22-2012, 04:54 PM
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The "I’m About to Eat Meat for the First Time in 40 Years" one was really very good. It makes it clear that animal cruelty/ needless suffering is wrong. It points out the health and moral problems with consuming animals. It even draws the human-animal suffering parallel. I will vote for that one.

At the moment that one is in the lead with 4502 votes, it's definitely the best of the bunch.

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#54 Old 04-22-2012, 05:49 PM
 
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I'm so sick of people, like i really want out of this world

Out of This World was a terrible game. Trust me; you don't want it.

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#55 Old 04-23-2012, 08:27 AM
 
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The "I’m About to Eat Meat for the First Time in 40 Years" one was really very good. It makes it clear that animal cruelty/ needless suffering is wrong. It points out the health and moral problems with consuming animals. It even draws the human-animal suffering parallel. I will vote for that one.

Found it the best too.
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#56 Old 04-30-2012, 08:11 AM
 
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Dear Editor,


We are a diverse group of scholars, researchers, and artists from such disciplines as philosophy, women’s studies, sociology, law, political theory, psychology, and literary studies, writing to take sharp issue with the Magazine’s decision to run a “Defending Your Dinner” contest.


[...]


Kaminer implies that she has assembled the most judicious and meat-averse line-up of judges, a “murderer’s row” that will be hard to persuade of the case for eating meat. But is that true? Michael Pollan promotes Joel Salatin and other organic meat producers. Mark Bittman publishes meat recipes. Peter Singer has consistently defended, in principle, the killing of nonhuman beings for human purposes (provided that it be done “painlessly”). Jonathan Safran Foer, in his otherwise admirable book “Eating Animals,” defends small animal farms and backs away from open advocacy of vegetarianism. Only Andrew Light seems to hold a position that finds no ethical justification for meat eating as such.


So the contest’s overt bias (“Tell Us Why It’s Ethical to Eat Meat”) is compounded by its pretense with respect to the judging. Kaminer might instead have tapped any of dozens if not hundreds of prominent scholars, writers, critics, and well-informed activists who unequivocally oppose meat production for ethical reasons. The fact that she did not tells us everything we need to know about how seriously Kaminer takes the “ethical” issues at stake in this debate.

rest here:
http://eatingplantsdotorg.wordpress....-the-ethicist/

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#57 Old 04-30-2012, 06:12 PM
 
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rest here:
http://eatingplantsdotorg.wordpress....-the-ethicist/

as opposed to most of what was sent into the NYT, they wrote a good essay

Quote:
...a more serious-minded critic would have given at least cursory attention to the empirical basis of the position, namely, the known facts about animal cognition and the unspeakable suffering that farmed animals endure so that they can end up as meat on our plates.

First, there has been an explosion of scientific research in recent decades showing beyond any doubt that many other species besides our own are emotionally and cognitively complex. Farmed animals are capable of a wide range of feelings and experiences, including empathy and the ability to intuit the interior states of others. The evidence suggests that they experience violence and trauma to their bodies as agonizingly as we do.

Second, most people are now aware of the horrific cruelty and violence that goes on behind the locked doors of the meat industry. Billions of cows, chickens, pigs, turkeys, geese, ducks, and aquaculture fish suffer each year in abominable conditions, then are brutally slaughtered, many of them while they are still fully or partially conscious. Such so-called factory farming accounts for 99% of the meat consumed in our society. The mass slaughter of oceanic fish, meanwhile, is so catastrophic to marine life that even the Fisheries Centre of the University of British Columbia (the academic arm of the Canadian fishing industry) has frankly compared todays commercial fishing campaigns to wars of extermination.

These and other facts have led a majority of contemporary moral philosophers who have studied the question to conclude that killing animals in order to eat them is not a morally defensible human interest, certainly not in a society such as ours, where vegan alternatives are widely available.

Even on purely prudential grounds, i.e. human self-interest, meat finds no rational justification. Numerous studies have shown meat-based diets to be associated with myriad negative health outcomes...


"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#58 Old 04-30-2012, 09:18 PM
 
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as opposed to most of what was sent into the NYT, they wrote a good essay


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#59 Old 05-03-2012, 03:41 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/ma...1&ref=magazine

The winner was announced and they chose the WORST one

The one where meat is ethical if "you accept the biological reality that death begets life on this planet and that all life (including us!) is really just solar energy temporarily stored in an impermanent form."

Are you ****ing kidding me?

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