A Complete Guide to 'Hipster Racism' - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 04-27-2012, 04:21 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 14,191
http://jezebel.com/5905291/a-complet...hipster-racism

Quote:
A long time ago (not really!), it was socially acceptable to own people. Then it wasn't, but it was socially acceptable to murder people if they looked at your wife. Then it wasn't! Yay! But it was still okay to say that people whose skin color you didn't like weren't allowed to be around you. And so on. Eventually we arrived at the point (now) where it's socially unacceptable in mainstream culture for white people to say denigrating things about people of other races. But just because the behavior has been suppressed, that doesn't mean people's prejudices have simply disappeared. And white people haaaaaate being told what to do in our own country (fun fact: not actually "ours")!
So racism went underground. Sure, you can't say racist things anymore, but you can pretend to say them! Which, it turns out, is pretty much the exact same thing. There are a couple of strains of "ironic racism" making the rounds right now, and a couple of typical defenses.

I'm kind of disturbed that I recognize pretty much all the examples listed in the article, I've heard "we have a black president, isn't racism over?" on more than one occasion

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 04-27-2012, 04:36 PM
Beginner
 
JoBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
I find her articles to be hit or miss for me. Some times, I think she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. For example, I really dislike how she, as a white woman who admittedly benefits from racism, can say that race is not a complicated issue.

There isn't enough love in the Universe....
JoBravo is offline  
#3 Old 04-27-2012, 04:38 PM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 14,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

I find her articles to be hit or miss for me. Some times, I think she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. For example:

I really dislike how she, as a white woman who admittedly benefits from racism, can say that race is not a complicated issue.

Yeah, I get what she was trying to say but it could have been worded a lot better. Jezebel in general is very hit or miss but it's rarely boring.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is online now  
#4 Old 04-27-2012, 04:49 PM
Beginner
 
JoBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
I also think that the author is perpetrating another, albeit less noticeable and perhaps more benign form of racism: that of the paternalistic white-person who is outraged on behalf of minorities. I'd be more impressed if the author wrote an article about how white people can open dialogue about racism with their black peers, not artificially (and superficially) represent the black perspective on the matter.

There isn't enough love in the Universe....
JoBravo is offline  
#5 Old 04-27-2012, 07:23 PM
Beginner
 
Savvington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 663
For a moment there I thought this was going to be about "racism" against hipsters. Which probably would have been a lot funnier and more interesting.

Article looks like it was written by one of those people you just don't give a **** about offending because no matter what they always find some other transgression that needs addressing.

Jesus saved me, but the file was corrupted.
Savvington is offline  
#6 Old 04-27-2012, 08:09 PM
Beginner
 
JoBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvington View Post

For a moment there I thought this was going to be about "racism" against hipsters. Which probably would have been a lot funnier and more interesting.

Article looks like it was written by one of those people you just don't give a **** about offending because no matter what they always find some other transgression that needs addressing.

Among some of my least favorite articles of Jezebel's is the one where she complains about too much sex on Game of Thrones and that "obese can be healthy", IIRC.

There isn't enough love in the Universe....
JoBravo is offline  
#7 Old 04-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Beginner
 
das_nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,130
Ugh, that article is a waste of space. Next time, she needs to define what she's talking about and use better examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

Among some of my least favorite articles of Jezebel's is the one where she complains about too much sex on Game of Thrones and that "obese can be healthy", IIRC.

Heh, the scene used in the banner of the too-much-sex-in-Game-of-Thrones article arguably could be one of the scenes that helps define the motivations of a character for the viewers, and would thus not necessarily be a gratuitous sex scene.
das_nut is offline  
#8 Old 04-27-2012, 10:10 PM
Beginner
 
JoBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Ugh, that article is a waste of space. Next time, she needs to define what she's talking about and use better examples.



Heh, the scene used in the banner of the too-much-sex-in-Game-of-Thrones article arguably could be one of the scenes that helps define the motivations of a character for the viewers, and would thus not necessarily be a gratuitous sex scene.

She obviously didn't catch on or chose a really poor screen cap.

There isn't enough love in the Universe....
JoBravo is offline  
#9 Old 04-27-2012, 10:11 PM
Beginner
 
cornsail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 3,154
Quote:
This category includes things like wide-eyed acoustic covers of hip-hop songs

I don't see how that's racist.

Quote:
suburban white girls flashing gang signs

I don't see how that's racist.

Quote:
and this Tweet from Zooey Deschanel: "Haha. RT @Sarabareilles: Home from tour and first things first: New Girl episodes I missed. #thuglife."

I don't see how that's racist.

Quote:
Wherein privileged people descend for a visit inside the strange, foreign spaces of othered groups. Like, I don't know, IHOP. Or that "scary" bar in the south end. Then they go home again. Catchphrase: "It's soooooo ghetto, but I actually totally like it!"

I don't see how that's racist.

Quote:
"So I'm not allowed to have a genuine interest in another culture?!!?!??!"
First of all, privileged dickweeds wearing Urban Outfitters "Navajo" panties, I didn't realize that you excavated those in your anthropological field work.

I don't see how that's racist.

Quote:
"Yeah, but we have a black president! Isn't racism over?"

I dunno if I'd call incorrectly denying that racism exists racism itself. It is stupidity.

A lot of the other stuff was kind of vague/generalized, but they were things I'd probably call racist in some contexts and not in others.

I think intent is important, BTW. A white girl flashing gang signs or an acoustic cover of a hip hop song could be done with racist intent.

We are all copies of the same machine. 

cornsail is offline  
#10 Old 04-28-2012, 12:23 AM
Beginner
 
Pixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

Jezebel in general is very hit or miss

Yes.
Pixie is offline  
#11 Old 04-28-2012, 03:25 AM
Super Moderator
 
Werewolf Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 14,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

Among some of my least favorite articles of Jezebel's is the one where she complains about too much sex on Game of Thrones and that "obese can be healthy", IIRC.

Haha, I forgot about that Game of Thrones one, too funny.

"If we could live happy and healthy lives without harming others... why wouldn't we?" - Edgars Mission
Werewolf Girl is online now  
#12 Old 04-28-2012, 03:48 AM
Beginner
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,068
That Game of Thrones thing isn't just that person on Jezebel; SNL recently made fun of it, they showed a teenage boy writing all the sex scenes.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#13 Old 04-28-2012, 07:20 AM
Beginner
 
Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

I also think that the author is perpetrating another, albeit less noticeable and perhaps more benign form of racism: that of the paternalistic white-person who is outraged on behalf of minorities.

There are an abundance of those types on VB.

Happiness is not the result of a mathematical equation comparing the good times and bad times someone has had. It is a state of mind.
-nomad888
Beancounter is offline  
#14 Old 04-28-2012, 12:05 PM
Beginner
 
das_nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

She obviously didn't catch on or chose a really poor screen cap.

Maybe she was too busy being offended by the nudity to catch the subtext. It was a tad subtle.
das_nut is offline  
#15 Old 04-29-2012, 10:33 PM
Beginner
 
Demosthenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 155
Quote:
If you claim that you are not a racist person (or, at least, that you're committed to working your ass off not to be one—which is really the best that any of us can promise), then you must believe that people are fundamentally born equal. So if that's true, then in a vacuum, factors like skin color should have no effect on anyone's success. Right? And therefore, if you really believe that all people are created equal, then when you see that drastic racial inequalities exist in the real world, the only thing that you could possibly conclude is that some external force is holding certain people back. Like...racism. Right? So congratulations! You believe in racism! Unless you don't actually think that people are born equal. And if you don't believe that people are born equal, then you're a ****ing racist.

^^This.
Demosthenes is offline  
#16 Old 04-29-2012, 10:38 PM
Beginner
 
Demosthenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

I think intent is important, BTW. A white girl flashing gang signs or an acoustic cover of a hip hop song could be done with racist intent.

The problem is that many forms of racism are insidious and not intended, which is why the author chose to write about them. Many of the examples the author shows are about members of the dominant class engaging with a perceived 'culture of the other' which is less reflective of reality than it is of the dominant class's fears of the other. And yes, denying that racism does not exist is racist because it is relegating current racial inequalities to the realm of choice when in reality it is far more deterministic.
Demosthenes is offline  
#17 Old 04-29-2012, 10:42 PM
Beginner
 
Demosthenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBravo View Post

I also think that the author is perpetrating another, albeit less noticeable and perhaps more benign form of racism: that of the paternalistic white-person who is outraged on behalf of minorities. I'd be more impressed if the author wrote an article about how white people can open dialogue about racism with their black peers, not artificially (and superficially) represent the black perspective on the matter.

You will have to explain to me how the author is being paternalistic when she is criticizing the actions of people within her own group who are committing a supposed wrong that is detrimental to all people in a society.
Demosthenes is offline  
#18 Old 04-29-2012, 11:02 PM
Beginner
 
das_nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,130
Since you mentioned the gang sign part...

Quote:
This category includes things like wide-eyed acoustic covers of hip-hop songs, suburban white girls flashing gang signs...

This may be an example of unconscious racism and sexism by the author. It sounds like she's implying that white suburban girls can't be gang members.

I almost want to ask the author to clarify this - are black suburban girls possible gang members then? Or am I totally safe in the suburbs and it's only urban people who may be possible gang members?

And the author goes on:

Quote:
and this Tweet from Zooey Deschanel: "Haha. RT @Sarabareilles: Home from tour and first things first: New Girl episodes I missed. #thuglife."

Er, so googling this whole "thuglife" thing, just to make sure I'm down with the slang, it's from a song by 2Pac about a code of conduct for gang members.

So once again, I'm confused. Is the author assuming that gangs are only limited to a certain race? Because from what I know, gangs are historically and currently not limited to only a few races. There are or were Russian gangs, Jewish gangs, Italian gangs, Hispanic gangs, Black gangs, Chinese gangs, Irish gangs... Basically, this list includes everyone under the sun who was in an urban environment. Here is an incomplete list.
das_nut is offline  
#19 Old 04-30-2012, 01:48 PM
Beginner
 
cornsail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 3,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post

The problem is that many forms of racism are insidious and not intended, which is why the author chose to write about them. Many of the examples the author shows are about members of the dominant class engaging with a perceived 'culture of the other' which is less reflective of reality than it is of the dominant class's fears of the other.

So how does flashing a gang sign imply that all black people are in gangs?

We are all copies of the same machine. 

cornsail is offline  
#20 Old 04-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Beginner
 
Josh James xVx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,097
I don't see how most of those things are actually racist.

Tam! RUGH!
Josh James xVx is offline  
#21 Old 04-30-2012, 02:45 PM
Beginner
 
Demosthenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

So how does flashing a gang sign imply that all black people are in gangs?

It doesn't, and I never said it did. Racism is broader than prejudice.
Demosthenes is offline  
#22 Old 04-30-2012, 04:51 PM
Beginner
 
das_nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post

You will have to explain to me how the author is being paternalistic when she is criticizing the actions of people within her own group who are committing a supposed wrong that is detrimental to all people in a society.

How would you define the author's "group"?
das_nut is offline  
#23 Old 04-30-2012, 05:15 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,764
I have no idea what the point of the article is. It doesn't make much sense to me. Language depends on context. I can't tell you whether it is a good idea or a poor idea to say "this is my black friend, George," unless I know the context in which it is spoken - who is talking, where they are, what conversation preceded the remark. Saying it just out of the blue, seems like it would probably be racist, but I can think of contexts where it would not be inappropriate. Then again, there is racism, and there is racism. Conversational thoughtlessness resulting in denigrating a person because of their race, is nothing compared to refusing to rent an apartment to to someone because of their race. One is just a rude remark, and hurts their feelings. The latter affects their life substantially. And yet, we often loudly complain when someone calls someone a pejoritive word, but are silent about their refusal to rent an apartment to someone.
soilman is offline  
#24 Old 04-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Beginner
 
Envy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Heaven
Posts: 6,548
Ah, racist may be an overstatement I think.

A bit rude though.

"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
Envy is offline  
#25 Old 04-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Beginner
 
Envy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Heaven
Posts: 6,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Are there Amish gang's? Or maybe it's that the Amish are German gang? What about the (rather similar) Chasidim? Are there Chasidic gangs. Or are maybe the Chasidim one of several extant Jewish gangs?

Certainly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo74Dn7W_pA

"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
Envy is offline  
#26 Old 04-30-2012, 05:31 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,764
Weird Al is very funny. And Florence Henderson was an amusing casting choice.

Not sure if everyone realizes Amish paradise is s send up of Gangster paradise.
soilman is offline  
#27 Old 04-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Beginner
 
Irizary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

I remember trying to explain to a bunch of (white) people why it isn't ok to wear Dia de los Muertos makeup for Halloween

Is it definitely offensive? If there were a dress-up celebration in some other culture similar to Halloween and some people went as Santa Claus or Jesus, that wouldn't be offensive to me, as a member of a nation that celebrates Christmas. But I don't give a **** about religion.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Irizary is offline  
#28 Old 04-30-2012, 05:33 PM
Beginner
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Weird Al is very funny.

The grass tends to be green.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#29 Old 04-30-2012, 05:40 PM
Beginner
 
AlixJ18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

I remember trying to explain to a bunch of (white) people why it isn't ok to wear Dia de los Muertos makeup for Halloween and "Hipster Headdresses" for anything. I've seen a lot of that happening in the past few years, and I don't like it. The excuse I usually get are that they are paying homage to the culture that they are appropriating. How about no. Dia de los Muertos isn't "Mexican Halloween". It's a holiday in its own right, and is celebrated seriously by an entire nation and culture of people. Headdresses were traditionally worn by respected men, not some drunk blonde girl at Coachella. Doing these things isn't cute, funny, or clever. It is disrespectful and racist. No better than wearing blackface, in my opinion.


Halloween is also a 'holiday in it's own right' and it's based on roman catholicism, i guess only roman catholics should be celebrating. And i would have to say that no it's not racist, what would be more racist, but not obvious unless someone was being loud about it, was if someone actually refused to go near any one elses culture because they hated it, celebrating anothers culture or dressing up like something isn't racist.
AlixJ18 is offline  
#30 Old 04-30-2012, 05:41 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

The grass tends to be green.

I know. I know.
soilman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off