Blaming the victim? Alcohol and rape - Page 4 - VeggieBoards

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#91 Old 12-16-2011, 04:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lucky_charm View Post

Also it is very patronising telling women that they need to be careful all the time in case they get raped. Also and even more importantly, the things a woman can do that will increase her chances of being raped far more than not drinking any more, dressing differently or not going out alone, are things like, getting into a relationship, getting married, or having male friends. You are far far more likely to be raped because you did one of these things than because you drank- the vast majority of women are raped by men they know. Perhaps we should preach total segregation of males and females. That would bring male on female rape to zero!

Agreed, not only is most of the advice doled out supremely unhelpful, but if we followed all of it we'd have to become pretty unreasonably paranoid. I went to the first hit that comes up in a Google search of "how to avoid rape" and a lot of the advice is straight-up crazy. http://www.wikihow.com/Prevent-a-Potential-Rape

Here are some of their tips:

-Don't use an iPod or cell phone while walking or jogging (everybody who does that gets assaulted, fact)
-Yell a lot (if you get scared and freeze up and can't make a sound, it's your own fault!)
-Never take a drink that's offered to you (if your friend offers to get the next round, punch him in the face and yell RAPIST!)
-Be really really suspicious of vans because they're the #1 vehicle used in rapes (citation needed)
-Don't wear your hair in a ponytail (that's my favourite one)
-Get a dog (reasonable, workable advice for everyone!)

Of course, there's no mention of the fact that you're far more likely to be raped by someone you know than by a scary stranger in a van. And then after all that at the very bottom they say "Research data clearly proves that a way a person dresses and/or acts does not influence the rapist's choice of victims." Well sheesh, so what the heck is the point of all this advice? Nothing. It's just a giant list of things that can be used against us if we do get raped and decide to go to the police. "Your Honour, her hair was in a ponytail. Clearly the sex was consensual."
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#92 Old 12-16-2011, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

]

Specifically:

Attachment 17363

This is so great I am speechless. Of course I never really blamed myself or other rape victims, but this just makes it so clear, it brought me to tears. Thanks.

I guess I know what trigger thread means now. :'(
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#93 Old 12-16-2011, 07:08 AM
 
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This is so great I am speechless. Of course I never really blamed myself or other rape victims, but this just makes it so clear, it brought me to tears. Thanks.

I guess I know what trigger thread means now. :'(

I hope you mean that in a good way and you were not offended or upset by what I put in that post?

I believe everything.
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#94 Old 12-16-2011, 07:13 AM
 
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I stay away from windowless vans.
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#95 Old 12-16-2011, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

I said it's not victim blaming "to the extent that what you're talking about is", not that it's not victim blaming (I don't know if it is, it's too ambigously written for me).



It's portrayed as something that could happen in the future and not as if it's describing any real specific person or incident. It's different from telling a woman who was raped "you shouldn't have drunk so much", because the intent of that is generally to dismiss, judge or shame. The intent of the ad seems to be to give safety advice to those who aren't necessarily rape victims. I don't agree that it's a good ad at all, but perhaps not ill-intented.

Ah, okay. I understand.

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#96 Old 12-16-2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by lucky_charm View Post

I don't see any purpose on allocating blame to a victim. If someone has been raped, the only reasons I can see for saying 'well you shouldn't have done that' are 1.to shame and humiliate him/her or 2. to say that the attacker should have less responsibility. I'm sure people will argue that they blame victims so that other women 'learn from it' and don't get raped but as I have argued before it is a bit like saying, after someone is in a car accident where they were collided into by a careless driver and they die, 'oh, well driving is dangerous, you shouldn't do it and people should learn from this and stop driving. Also it is very patronising telling women that they need to be careful all the time in case they get raped. Also and even more importantly, the things a woman can do that will increase her chances of being raped far more than not drinking any more, dressing differently or not going out alone, are things like, getting into a relationship, getting married, or having male friends. You are far far more likely to be raped because you did one of these things than because you drank- the vast majority of women are raped by men they know. Perhaps we should preach total segregation of males and females. That would bring male on female rape to zero!

I have more to say on this but need to go to work so I'll come back later.

Abolutely agree

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Originally Posted by Nishani View Post

I find it difficult to wholeheartedly believe that a sexually inexperienced young woman who's virginity was important to her, actually initiated the sex. I think he could be lying about that. Although I firmly believe that a lot of women don't take anywhere where near enough responsibility for their own bodies, I think a man should wear the blame for ending up with a rape conviction in a situation like that. If men don't want to end up taking the blame, they can always think twice about picking up strangers at party's to have sex with.

Victim blaming. And I am not sure how important her virginity really was to her, but its not like women who value their virginity don't want to have sex, being drunk may get one more arroused and one makes decisions one may regret. notice, i am saying DECISIONS

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Originally Posted by Nishani View Post

He wasn't a "victim", he was a defendant in a court of law and he lost. The blame for that lies squarely at his feet for having sex with a stranger who was so intoxicated she was throwing up in the toilet. Any man who thinks THAT entertainment doesn't come with a set of red flags is not too smart.

if you think like that than a woman who actually was raped and went to court but lost wasn't a victim either.
People do have sex with strangers. there isn't anything wrong with that, it happens all the time. in many cases it is even impossible to say that a person was too drunk. a friend of mine pukes whenever she gets drunk, but at the same time she seems to be very rational and has normal conversations, even her puking doesn't make one thing that she is too wasted
and to your last sentence: "Any woman who thinks that getting wasted and picking up strangers doesn't come with a set of red flags isn't too smart"
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#97 Old 12-16-2011, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

I hope you mean that in a good way and you were not offended or upset by what I put in that post?

Yes I meant it in a good way, I really like that list you posted. :-)

I read the whole thread at once though, and it was pretty emotional. :/
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#98 Old 12-16-2011, 03:36 PM
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#99 Old 12-16-2011, 05:47 PM
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^^^ That's a very good one.
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#100 Old 12-16-2011, 05:48 PM
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i liked the last one until i read the article
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#101 Old 12-16-2011, 05:49 PM
 
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I don't know, how many people is it who genuinely don't know what rape is?

"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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