Egypt, Syria...and the Rest of the Arab Spring - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-20-2011, 11:40 AM
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The "Arab Spring" is the political ferment in the Arabic-speaking world that has different forms in the affected nations. In some cases, like Bahrain, the United States supports the established government with military aid; in others such as Syria, the U.S. government condemns the violence of the status quo. In many cases, there is reason to wonder what the U.S. government is doing behind the scenes, regardless of what it officially says; we know from Wikileaks documents that what we see is not always what we (and others) get from America's rulers.

Here are a few of the numerous current internet articles bearing upon the Arab Spring:

Army, police charge Egypt protesters who vow to stay

(Reuters) - Police backed by the army used batons and teargas on Sunday to charge protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square demanding Eygpt's ruling generals swiftly hand power to civilians, in some of the worst violence since the overthrow of Hosni Mubarak.

"http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/20/us-egypt-protests-idUSTRE7AI0EC20111120?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNew s&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campai gn=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+To p+News%29"

Libya, Egypt and Syria all face an uncertain future

The Arab uprisings are still unfolding and no one can predict how each country's story will end

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...arab-uprisings

Deadly street violence erupts in Cairo

A deadly cycle of street violence which has rocked Egypt ahead of next weeks elections was spiralling out of control tonight as troops attacked thousands of protesters camped out in Tahrir Square.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...o-6265145.html

No place for authoritarian regimes, Turkey tells Syria

LONDON Turkish President Abdullah Gul said there was no place for authoritarian regimes in the Mediterranean region, heaping more pressure on the embattled Syrian regime, in comments published Sunday.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/2...y-tells-syria/

Tahrir Square All Over Again

Egyptian security forces killed at least three demonstrators in Cairos Tahrir Square on Sunday as troops moved against huge crowds protesting the militarys attempts to grant itself permanent governmental powers a week before the first post-Mubarak parliamentary elections.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartothegrou...uare_20111120/

I wish the suffering people of that region swift transition to more humane, honest, and democratic forms of governance. It is up to us to pressure the United States government to support them, and not corrupt dictators.

All Power to the People.

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#2 Old 11-20-2011, 11:57 AM
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I guess a possible way forward for Egypt is the same as what has happened in Turkey where the military used to govern behind the scenes (like Egypt under Mubarak), but where the civilian government has managed to gradually take ever more control. The big fear of the military was that a more proper democracy would allow Islamist extremist to gain power. Instead the democratic process has paved the way to success for a moderate Islamic party which respects democratic values. This is now a model for many of the countries affected by the Arab Spring.

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#3 Old 11-21-2011, 06:50 AM
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Death toll hits 33 on third day of Egypt clashes

(Reuters) - Cairo police fought protesters demanding an end to army rule for a third day on Monday and morgue officials said the death toll had risen to 33, making it the worst spasm of violence since the uprising that toppled President Hosni Mubarak.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...2F+Top+News%29

Extreme violence as Egypt cracks down on protests

Clashes between Egyptian protesters calling for an end to military rule and the army and police who are trying to put down the demonstrations have been going on for some 36 hours, and the Reuters News Agency is reporting at least ten dead and 214 wounded on Sunday alone. However, accounts of the violence from reporters on the scene that are being relayed by way of Twitter tell an even more alarming story.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/2...n-on-protests/

Brave people. Is this our future, too?

On edit/update:

Egypt: The return to Tahrir Square- live updates

• Thousands flood to Tahrir Square as clashes continue
• Election plans in chaos amid calls for civilian government
• ICC pressures Libya over Saif and Senussi
• Syria locked in stand-off with Arab League over observers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/midd...r-live-updates

Egyptian cabinet resigns - live coverage of reaction

The Egyptian cabinet has tendered its resignation to the country's ruling military council. There is confusion as to whether the Supreme Council of Armed Forces has accepted. Follow live coverage here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/midd...-live-coverage

Libya: The Arab Spring may yet turn to chilly winter

We may not like the consequences of elections in North Africa - but we must not repeat the mistakes of the past.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ly-winter.html

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#4 Old 11-22-2011, 12:38 PM
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Egyptian protesters refuse generals' offer for transition

Head of ruling military council says presidential elections will be held before 30 June in televised address

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...generals-offer

The Egyptians are no fools; they have been lied to so long, that they rightly dismiss the offers of the military junta--the same people who have kidnapped, tortured, and murdered countless commoners. The killing and terror directed at them is the tragedy of the struggle for popular rule. Meanwhile, the US government calls for "restraint on all sides." Why not restraint by the military alone, which has initiated all the violence?

Here is a live feed (as of this posting) to Tahrir Square:

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news-...03972#45403972

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#5 Old 11-23-2011, 04:22 PM
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The Arab Spring has become the Islamist Winter!

http://youtu.be/I6_aXWTjcMw
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#6 Old 11-24-2011, 06:39 AM
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Egypt elections and Tahrir protests: what does the future hold?

Egyptians who have helped chart the revolution online tell us what the country's post-Mubarak elections mean to them. Our correspondent Jack Shenker will join them to discuss the elections from 2pm GMT

Protests have once more rocked Egypt with demonstrators re-entering Tahrir Square, just before the country is expected to take to the polls to elect a parliament after 30 years of dictatorial rule by Hosni Mubarak.

We asked a group of Egyptians who have been tweeting, blogging and commenting on the Guardian site throughout the revolution for their take on the country's future.

• Do you think the 'revolution' has succeeded?
• Who do you think will win the election?
• Is Egypt of today different from this time last year?
• Can elections still take place in the current climate?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ahrir-protests

Democracy is dangerous; tyranny is unacceptable. I hope someday all the Swiss bank accounts of Egypt's rulers who have been enriched by US taxpayers are made public.

On edit, I just saw this:

France seeks Arab backing for Syria intervention

(Reuters) - France will seek Arab support on Thursday for a humanitarian corridor in Syria, the first time a major power has swung behind international intervention in the eight-month uprising against President Bashar al-Assad.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...2F+Top+News%29

What do you think of this? Another Libya in the making?

Another update--things keep happening so fast! Here it is:

Arabs give Syria one day to agree monitors or face sanctions

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...2F+Top+News%29

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#7 Old 11-25-2011, 07:30 AM
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What brave people--can you imagine Americans risking what they are doing? Egypt has long been one of the world's worst human-rights abusers, as documented by Amnesty International. It is in fact one of the places the US has sent people to be tortured ("rendered"). Now we have weasel words from Washington DC about democracy "as soon as possible," while the thugs there use US-manufactured gas against the demonstrators. Good luck to the common people of Egypt.

Egypt protests: 'Friday of the last chance' - live updates

• Tens of thousands of people return to Tahrir Square
• White House calls for civilian rule as soon as possible
• Syria faces new Arab League deadline to allow observers
• Morocco's first elections under new constitution

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/midd...e-live-updates

On edit, I want to add this viewpoint:

As long as Tahrir Square is in action, Tahrir is democracy

Egypt's desperate military and Muslim Brotherhood are trying everything to strangle our revolutionary vigour. They will fail

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...emocracy-egypt

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#8 Old 11-27-2011, 12:38 PM
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Morocco's Arab Spring election won by Islamists

Associated Press= RABAT, Morocco (AP) — The victory of an Islamist Party in Morocco's parliamentary elections appears to be one more sign that religious-based parties are benefiting the most from the new freedoms brought by the Arab Spring.

Across the Middle East, parties referencing Islam have made great strides, offering an alternative to corrupt, long serving dictators, who have often ruled with close Western support.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9967417

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#9 Old 11-28-2011, 07:50 AM
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Syria troops have killed more than 250 children, UN report finds

Report to UN Human Rights Council accuses Syrian troops of crimes against humanity and operating shoot-to-kill policy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...dren-un-report

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#10 Old 11-28-2011, 08:16 AM
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So instead of dictators, there are now going to be theocracy?

"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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#11 Old 11-28-2011, 11:02 AM
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Does anyone know the future? How can anyone say what the people of these countries will choose for themselves? The key matter, though, is that they will choose for themselves--not have something imposed on them by others. That's the essence of democracy, isn't it?

One final point--to my knowledge, there is only one theocracy in the Middle East. Can you say which country that is?

On edit:

I wanted to add this opinion piece, since 'Islamist' is sometimes slung around the way the Tea Party uses 'Marxist'--meaning carelessly and without knowledge that there's a range of differences there:

Those who support democracy must welcome the rise of political Islam

From Tunisia to Egypt, Islamists are gaining the popular vote. Far from threatening stability, this makes it a real possibility

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ing-west-fears

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#12 Old 11-28-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alarmist View Post

Those who support democracy must welcome the rise of political Islam

Well, I must the most anti-democratic person ever then, since I can't support any kind of political religion. Stability doesn't mean democracy (look at China) nor does religious brainwashing "freely" chosen.
Just my 2 cents.

Oh and Turkey as a model for democracy...? Please! The OP is so biased, it's impossible to take this piece seriously
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#13 Old 11-29-2011, 07:20 AM
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I encourage you to read some of the (many) comments that are appended to the article. I often value those as much or more more than the articles themselves--and is one of the reasons I so highly value The Guardian. Many of their readers are very knowledgeable, articulate, and occasionally funny. Of course, you get a share of trolls and worse, but that's just life. Many of the posters shared essentially your viewpoint (I think), though it's a little hard to say just what that is--due to the brevity of your remarks.

This is relevant:

Egypt elections - day two: live updates

• Polls reopen after record turnout on opening day
• US calls for UN action against Syria
• Libyan authorities still holding 7,000 prisoners

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/midd...s-live-updates

Thinking is a difficult business. It requires a separation from the world, a passion for truth, and a willingness to let go of the affairs of the world. In the name of and out of care for the world, thinking requires a distance from the world. -- Roger Berkowitz
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#14 Old 11-29-2011, 03:04 PM
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I've read the comments which, as you said, often offer valuable input.

My point is this: politicalised religions, whatever the religion, I shudder at the thought of the rise of the Christian right in the US, can't bring what we call democracy and can't be the fundation for a fair and unbiased judicial system (among other things).
I'm pretty sure the Coptic community is not overjoyed at the thought of being ruled by muslims. Coptic girls abduction are on the rise since the revolution, how is that a good sign of democracy? That's just an example (Coptic were already targeted and persecuted before) which shows that if you do not abide by the religion of the majority, you'll be ostracised and persecuted, just as we, Christian countries, did and still do to some extent. SO imagine once this religion becomes the one ruling your country?

So equating the rise of political [religion] and democracy appears to be very wrong to me. There's nothing rational with faith, or isn't rationality one of the many things needed to govern?
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