"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields." -Leo Tolstoy - VeggieBoards

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#1 Old 07-23-2011, 02:01 AM
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Personally I loved Tolstoys performances as Spock in the Star Trek films and I loved the film of his book 'Lord of the Rings', BUT!

Everytime I mention this quote of his to anyone with a vested interest in slaughterhouses plying their filthy trade they tell me things like;

1. It's a silly comparison.

2. Slaughters houses and battlefield have nothing in common.

3. Sigh.

4. It's my f*****g body and you have no right to tell me what I can or can't put in it you anti-choice git!

5. Does your carer know that you're out?


So ....

Was Tolstoy talking bollox when he linked the continued existence of slaughterhouses to the continued existence of battlefeilds or not?

Why?
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#2 Old 07-23-2011, 02:56 AM
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slaughter houses and battle fields have a root cause, which is neurosis.
The repression of childhood pain, which leads to all kinds of crap.

I read in an Arthur Janov book, that someone one who had primal therapy ended up wondering how they could ever have eaten meat.
I suppose when someone is no longer suppressing pain, and so a lot of their feelings, they no longer make the disconnection between meat and the slaughter house, or war and violence.

Janov said, that a lot of people(mainly republicans probably) like the idea of war, as it is the symbolic fight against their internal fears...so war makes them feel safer.

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#3 Old 07-23-2011, 03:38 AM
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I think Tolstoy was suggesting that they are both linked by the word 'compassion'.

If we get rid of slaughterhouses (and I take it he means that we stop killing animals altogether rather than butcher them ourselves at home) we do it out of a sense of compassion for non-human animals.

How can we then believe that killing human animals is right? In fact, compassion for non-human animals probably means we have even more compassion for our own species (which is why I always get irritated at people who suggest that veg*ns care more for animals that humans, when the truth is we care more than most for both).
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#4 Old 07-23-2011, 06:51 AM
 
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I think it has to do with the energy that is taken in by someone eating meat and also that if you show no or little respect for one being, it's a slippery slope and continues to others. How many murderers start out with small animals?
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#5 Old 07-23-2011, 06:58 AM
 
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I really don't see what number four has to do with slaughterhouses or battlefields.

Who needs sleep when we've got love?
Who needs keys when we've got clubs?
Who needs please when we've got guns?
Who needs peace when we've gone above?
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#6 Old 07-23-2011, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

4. It's my f*****g body and you have no right to tell me what I can or can't put in it you anti-choice git!

That would be a really stupid argument. Stealing someone's money and eating the bills would be putting something in your body too, but that doesn't mean it's okay to steal.

Before you can put something into your body, you need to deal with something that is originally outside your body, and which therefore can be protected against your actions without violating your bodily autonomy.

My remarks should clarify why the "my body" response works with abortion but doesn't work with slaughterhouses -- unlike what you may wish to imply by your thread.

"and I stand

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made of weak and useless men"

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#7 Old 07-23-2011, 09:29 AM
 
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The dumb is strong in this one.

It's naive' at best to assume all human conflict would end in an all vegan society. It's one of the few things I'd be willing to bet money on. War never changes.

Tam! RUGH!
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#8 Old 07-23-2011, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

Personally I loved Tolstoys performances as Spock in the Star Trek films and I loved the film of his book 'Lord of the Rings'

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#9 Old 07-23-2011, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

That would be a really stupid argument. Stealing someone's money and eating the bills would be putting something in your body too, but that doesn't mean it's okay to steal.

Before you can put something into your body, you need to deal with something that is originally outside your body, and which therefore can be protected against your actions without violating your bodily autonomy.

My remarks should clarify why the "my body" response works with abortion but doesn't work with slaughterhouses -- unlike what you may wish to imply by your thread.

I don't mind taking anything that has relevance to abortion over to the abortion thread for further discuussion Sevenseas.

Best not to do that here?
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#10 Old 07-23-2011, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

I don't mind taking anything that has relevance to abortion over to the abortion thread for further discuussion Sevenseas.

That's good. Of course, you were originally talking about the Tolstoy quote in the context of abortion. And now you've made its own thread about it, with point 4 having a very apparent relation to the abortion debate -- I'm really not familiar with omnis using point 4 to defend meat-eating at all. Very interesting is also you inserting "anti-choice" into point 4, after pro-lifers were repeatedly characterized as anti-choice in the abortion debate.

But yeah, I think it's all just a big coincidence, and I wouldn't want to be off topic. I'm sure incorporating abortion debate terminology ('anti-choice') into this thread was not intentional.

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#11 Old 07-23-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

But yeah, I think it's all just a big coincidence, and I wouldn't want to be off topic. I'm sure incorporating abortion debate terminology ('anti-choice') into this thread was not intentional.

Haha.
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#12 Old 07-23-2011, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post

I read in an Arthur Janov book, that someone one who had primal therapy ended up wondering how they could ever have eaten meat.

I suppose when someone is no longer suppressing pain, and so a lot of their feelings, they no longer make the disconnection between meat and the slaughter house, or war and violence.

I think there's a kind of truth to what you're writing, but many people go through primal therapy or other types of deep therapies and still eat meat - in fact most of them do. Is Janov a vegan? I think many people are insensitive no matter what kind of healing they do.

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#13 Old 07-23-2011, 01:34 PM
 
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I thought this started because you compared slaughterhouses to concentration camps, not battlefields.
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#14 Old 07-23-2011, 02:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beatricious View Post

I thought this started because you compared slaughterhouses to concentration camps, not battlefields.

It started because he compared abortion clinics to slaughterhouses, actually, but that's irrelevant because this thread has absolutely nothing to do with abortion, or the attempted strengthening of a point of view on it.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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#15 Old 07-23-2011, 05:32 PM
 
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Just so everyone knows, this thread was started because in the abortion thread I told Clueless Git that it isn't necessary to compare slaughter houses to concentration camps. He was trying to get me to acknowledge that abortion clinics are like slaughterhouses, and when I wouldn't comply, he tried to get me to acknowledge that slaughterhouses are like concentration camps. He brought these comparisons up when he noticed the Tolstoy quote in my signature.



Just wanted everyone to be aware of the great leaps that are taking place.

Here is the link to the page in the abortion thread that started this:
http://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/sh...03#post2947503

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#16 Old 07-24-2011, 02:40 AM
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Yes my interest in WTF was Tolstoy thinking when he said that was inspired on the abortion thread.

The clue may have been that I posted a link in the abortion thread to this topic here?

This one is meant to be for a discussion as to whether Tolstoy was talking bollox, or not, when he linked the continued existence of slaughterhouses to that of battlefeilds.
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#17 Old 07-24-2011, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

He brought these comparisons up when he noticed the Tolstoy quote in my signature.

Aye,

In the context soley of slaughterhouses and battlefeilds what is that you think Tolstoy saw as the link?
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#18 Old 07-24-2011, 12:39 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVnArp9ZE0&feature=related

"A-yup. Ya wasted yer life, son"

- Old Man
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#19 Old 07-24-2011, 05:53 PM
 
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^^

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#20 Old 07-24-2011, 08:39 PM
 
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I lol'd.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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#21 Old 07-25-2011, 12:01 AM
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Yes it was a trap.

If it wasn't a trap, and a blurdy obvious one, we may have had a few more serious attempts to state the blurdy obvious link that Tolstoy observed twix one type of killing and another.
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