Lou Dobbs and the canard over President Obama's birth certificate.... - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-28-2009, 11:36 AM
 
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Lou Dobbs had David from Freeport, N.Y., on the line, the caller musing darkly about President Obama "rushing all these programs through by whatever means," knowing he will soon be exposed as a fake, a fraud, a . . . Kenyan.



At that point, a scrupulous radio host had three options: (A) hit the kill button (B) laugh and hit the kill button or (C) offer some push-back against the fantastical notion that Barack Obama was born on foreign soil and thus serves -- illegally -- as the Oval Office's first resident alien.



Instead, Dobbs chose the maximum complicity-minimum integrity route, or (D): "Certainly your view can't be discounted," the host said.



Oi vey.
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#2 Old 07-28-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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In the can of mixed nuts that is humanity, there are always a few wing nuts.
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#3 Old 07-28-2009, 11:47 AM
 
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People who take the birth certificate stuff seriously should hang out with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, they have a lot in common.

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#4 Old 07-28-2009, 11:53 AM
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people who take the birth certificate stuff seriously should hang out with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, they have a lot in common.



+1

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#5 Old 07-28-2009, 12:08 PM
 
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Apparently, the state of Hawaii received so many inquiries about this nonsense again recently that they once again made a public statement confirming the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/...th_certificate



--Fromper

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#6 Old 07-28-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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I thought this was dealt with long ago? Crazy.
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#7 Old 07-28-2009, 12:32 PM
 
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I thought this was dealt with long ago? Crazy.

But the truth is out there! I want to believe!

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#8 Old 07-28-2009, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

People who take the birth certificate stuff seriously should hang out with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, they have a lot in common.



Do they have a white line drawn around them?
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#9 Old 07-28-2009, 02:31 PM
 
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the white line....drawn with white-out (covering up where "Kenya" was typed!)
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#10 Old 07-28-2009, 05:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

People who take the birth certificate stuff seriously should hang out with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, they have a lot in common.



I believe in one but not the other. There are many questions that still haven't been answered regarding 9/11, while I wouldn't say that applies to the birth certificate claims. There are millions and millions of people who have some doubts regarding 9/11 but I haven't seen any reason to believe that regarding the birth certificate claims. So I don't think your comparisons are valid.
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#11 Old 07-28-2009, 05:29 PM
 
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Also is there a link to these claims?
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#12 Old 07-28-2009, 06:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

I believe in one but not the other. There are many questions that still haven't been answered regarding 9/11, while I wouldn't say that applies to the birth certificate claims. There are millions and millions of people who have some doubts regarding 9/11 but I haven't seen any reason to believe that regarding the birth certificate claims. So I don't think your comparisons are valid.



that's the nice thing about conspiracy theories: a person can go on believing in the conspiracy despite no evidence whatsoever that there was in fact a conspiracy that was responsible for the event. instead, they believe that questions about the events still remain while not putting their alternative explanation to the test.
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#13 Old 07-29-2009, 01:01 AM
 
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What gets me about these people who question his citizenship is that they disregard the birth announcement in the local paper in his town in Hawaii mere days after his birth. It said he was born in Hawaii. It's not like his parents and grandparents got together and cooked up a scheme to put this announcement in the papers just in case it would come in handy one day when his country of birth became a big question mark. I'm sure they just knew he'd be elected president and would need this announcement to hide the "truth"!
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#14 Old 07-29-2009, 04:23 AM
 
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Also is there a link to these claims?

it's completely legit. see for yourself

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...d-control-rays

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#15 Old 07-29-2009, 10:37 AM
 
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that's the nice thing about conspiracy theories: a person can go on believing in the conspiracy despite no evidence whatsoever that there was in fact a conspiracy that was responsible for the event. instead, they believe that questions about the events still remain while not putting their alternative explanation to the test.



It sounds like you're steryotyping an entire group. In the previous thread, I had asked questions and few people made even an attempt to respond so I don't see any purpose in discussing it again. I don't remember the exact number, but I remember a poll a while back which said 20 or maybe even 25% of the American population has doubts. That's possibly 60 million or more just in this country, so it's not like it's just a few people so you can't steryotype.
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#16 Old 07-29-2009, 10:53 AM
 
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its not a stereotype, it is an observation that I have not seen anyone that believes in the conspiracy come up with any sort of proof regarding how it was accomplished and who did it. instead, they offer up vague scenarios. if you want to question the official story and say there are questions and claim there was a conspiracy you just have to do better than that. just because a significant number of Americans believe in a dumb story doesn't make it credible. a lot of people like Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake (shudder) and voted for Dick Cheney too.
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#17 Old 07-29-2009, 01:18 PM
 
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I believe in one but not the other. There are many questions that still haven't been answered regarding 9/11, while I wouldn't say that applies to the birth certificate claims. There are millions and millions of people who have some doubts regarding 9/11 but I haven't seen any reason to believe that regarding the birth certificate claims. So I don't think your comparisons are valid.



I agree with you - I think the birth certificate thing is just neocon bitching, but I think, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, that 9/11 was an inside job based on my own independent research of the incident.



Quote:
that's the nice thing about conspiracy theories: a person can go on believing in the conspiracy despite no evidence whatsoever that there was in fact a conspiracy that was responsible for the event. instead, they believe that questions about the events still remain while not putting their alternative explanation to the test.



Here's a little of the non-existent evidence you're talking about:



11 Remarkable Facts About 9/11!



1) It is commonly known that the Twin Towers fell on 9/11, but did you know that a third World Trade Center high-rise building also fell that day? WTC Building 7, a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper located one block from the Twin Towers was not hit by any plane, but collapsed at 5:20 that evening, imploding in the exact manner of a professionally engineered demolition. It fell suddenly, straight down, at near freefall speed, and landed in a compact pile of rubble, barely damaging any of the surrounding buildings. These are but a few of eleven characteristics of Building 7's collapse that are consistent only with controlled demolitions. Further, the leaseholder of the three buildings, Larry Silverstein, said in 2002 on PBS that on the afternoon of 9/11 he suggested to the NYC fire department commander that they "pull" WTC 7. "Pull" is an industry term that means "demolish," but it normally takes a team of skilled people many weeks to design and implement large demolitions. Astonishingly, there is no mention of WTC Building 7's remarkable collapse in the 571-page 9/11 Commission Report.



2) Fire has never prior to or after 9/11 caused any steel frame building to collapse. The sudden, vertical, explosive, and total collapse of the Twin Towers at near freefall speed can only be explained by controlled demolition.



3) The WTC steel, which if fully examined could have revealed the effects of explosives, was quickly shipped overseas and melted down. This was an unprecedented violation of federal crime scene laws.



4) Whenever contact is lost with any airplane, fighter jets routinely take to the air to investigate. This commonly occurs about 100 times per year in well under 20 minutes. But on 9/11 nearly two hours passed without any interception.



5) The Secret Service broke established protocols by allowing President Bush to remain in a well-publicized classroom "photo op" long after it was known that the U.S. was under attack and he might well have been a target.



6) Unidentified insiders made millions on the stocks of American and United Airlines and those of other corporations that were likewise impacted by the attacks. These "put option" bets were made just prior to 9/11.



7) There were warnings of the impending attacks from at least eleven other countries. Also prior to 9/11, insiders such as John Ashcroft, top military officers, and San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown were warned not to fly.



8) In September of 2000, a group of neocon hawks, many of whom would become key officials in the Bush administration, wrote that their proposed massive military buildup would proceed slowly "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor."



9) Some of the alleged 9/11 "suicide hijackers" are still alive and well, according to the BBC and The Guardian. At least five of the alleged hijackers may have trained at U.S. military bases, as reported in Newsweek and other sources.



10) The Bush administration resisted the formation of the 9/11 Commission for 441 days. Similar investigations, such as those for Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination, and the space shuttle disasters, all started in about one week.



11) "The Jersey Girls" four courageous 9/11 widows finally forced the 9/11 Commission into existence and presented many questions, most of which were ignored. Under the leadership of Bush administration insider Philip Zelikow, the final report failed to address any of the evidence pointing to official complicity.



Quote:
just because a significant number of Americans believe in a dumb story doesn't make it credible.



Just because a significant number of Americans believe a dumb story made up by the government doesn't mean that story is credible, either. Which are you more likely to believe? The collective works of dozens of independent researchers, or what Big Brother told you?



Don't believe researchers? How about the firefighters who were there that day? http://firefightersfor911truth.org/









In short, I don't think any intelligent person should write off "conspiracy theorists" without doing a little research of their own...if you can prove the government wasn't involved, prove it.
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#18 Old 07-29-2009, 01:20 PM
 
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Oh noooooooooooo!



It's alive!!!



Soon Silver will appear out of nowhere, with the white lines.

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#19 Old 07-29-2009, 03:16 PM
 
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Kellye, just out of curiosity, have you actually read any of the counter arguments?
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#20 Old 07-29-2009, 03:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

People who take the birth certificate stuff seriously should hang out with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, they have a lot in common.



^^ This.
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#21 Old 07-29-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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Kellye, just out of curiosity, have you actually read any of the counter arguments?



I have, and I am not saying that everything 9/11 truthers OR the government says is true. I think a lot of 9/11 truth "hype" has made it into the ether, and that there is a lot of misinformation being put forth on both sides. The government has yellow journalism on its side, such as the propaganda put forth in Popular Mechanics.



All I'm saying os that the government's story does not make sense to me and their actions on that day and the days directly after the attack also do not make sense to me.



At all.



Period.
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#22 Old 07-29-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kellye View Post


In short, I don't think any intelligent person should write off "conspiracy theorists" without doing a little research of their own...if you can prove the government wasn't involved, prove it.



You can't prove a negative. I can't prove the government, or anyone else, didn't do anything, just as I can't prove I didn't go out and eat a McDonald's double cheeseburger last night.



But there are lots of reasons to believe the U.S. government didn't attack its own people, chief among them the fact that they are incapable of pulling off something 1) on such a large scale, 2) with near flawless execution, 3) and have no conspirators come forward. Did you happen to notice the elegant and efficient way the gubmint dealt with the aftermath of Iraq? And the wonderful skill with which it handled the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina?



The U.S. government can barely deliver the mail.
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#23 Old 07-29-2009, 10:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

I believe in one but not the other. There are many questions that still haven't been answered regarding 9/11, while I wouldn't say that applies to the birth certificate claims. There are millions and millions of people who have some doubts regarding 9/11 but I haven't seen any reason to believe that regarding the birth certificate claims. So I don't think your comparisons are valid.

I agree

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#24 Old 07-29-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

It sounds like you're steryotyping an entire group. In the previous thread, I had asked questions and few people made even an attempt to respond so I don't see any purpose in discussing it again. I don't remember the exact number, but I remember a poll a while back which said 20 or maybe even 25% of the American population has doubts. That's possibly 60 million or more just in this country, so it's not like it's just a few people so you can't steryotype.

I made a thread about that poll.



http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=71908



goddamn though. if 25 percent of the population believes the government is competent enough to execute such a massive conspiracy then that would go a long way to explaining how so many people still think the government can run healthcare.

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#25 Old 07-29-2009, 10:34 PM
 
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Oh lord the birthers.



I enjoyed Jon Stewart's take on the "issue".



http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-born-identity
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#26 Old 07-29-2009, 10:38 PM
 
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what i'd like to know is if obama has nothing to hide, why did he ban access to his records his first day in office with executive order 13489???



http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/E9-1712.pdf
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#27 Old 07-29-2009, 10:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kellye View Post

I agree with you - I think the birth certificate thing is just neocon bitching, but I think, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, that 9/11 was an inside job based on my own independent research of the incident.







Here's a little of the non-existent evidence you're talking about:



11 Remarkable Facts About 9/11!



1) It is commonly known that the Twin Towers fell on 9/11, but did you know that a third World Trade Center high-rise building also fell that day? WTC Building 7, a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper located one block from the Twin Towers was not hit by any plane, but collapsed at 5:20 that evening, imploding in the exact manner of a professionally engineered demolition. It fell suddenly, straight down, at near freefall speed, and landed in a compact pile of rubble, barely damaging any of the surrounding buildings. These are but a few of eleven characteristics of Building 7's collapse that are consistent only with controlled demolitions. Further, the leaseholder of the three buildings, Larry Silverstein, said in 2002 on PBS that on the afternoon of 9/11 he suggested to the NYC fire department commander that they "pull" WTC 7. "Pull" is an industry term that means "demolish," but it normally takes a team of skilled people many weeks to design and implement large demolitions. Astonishingly, there is no mention of WTC Building 7's remarkable collapse in the 571-page 9/11 Commission Report.



2) Fire has never prior to or after 9/11 caused any steel frame building to collapse. The sudden, vertical, explosive, and total collapse of the Twin Towers at near freefall speed can only be explained by controlled demolition.



3) The WTC steel, which if fully examined could have revealed the effects of explosives, was quickly shipped overseas and melted down. This was an unprecedented violation of federal crime scene laws.



4) Whenever contact is lost with any airplane, fighter jets routinely take to the air to investigate. This commonly occurs about 100 times per year in well under 20 minutes. But on 9/11 nearly two hours passed without any interception.



5) The Secret Service broke established protocols by allowing President Bush to remain in a well-publicized classroom "photo op" long after it was known that the U.S. was under attack and he might well have been a target.



6) Unidentified insiders made millions on the stocks of American and United Airlines and those of other corporations that were likewise impacted by the attacks. These "put option" bets were made just prior to 9/11.



7) There were warnings of the impending attacks from at least eleven other countries. Also prior to 9/11, insiders such as John Ashcroft, top military officers, and San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown were warned not to fly.



8) In September of 2000, a group of neocon hawks, many of whom would become key officials in the Bush administration, wrote that their proposed massive military buildup would proceed slowly "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor."



9) Some of the alleged 9/11 "suicide hijackers" are still alive and well, according to the BBC and The Guardian. At least five of the alleged hijackers may have trained at U.S. military bases, as reported in Newsweek and other sources.



10) The Bush administration resisted the formation of the 9/11 Commission for 441 days. Similar investigations, such as those for Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination, and the space shuttle disasters, all started in about one week.



11) "The Jersey Girls" four courageous 9/11 widows finally forced the 9/11 Commission into existence and presented many questions, most of which were ignored. Under the leadership of Bush administration insider Philip Zelikow, the final report failed to address any of the evidence pointing to official complicity.







Just because a significant number of Americans believe a dumb story made up by the government doesn't mean that story is credible, either. Which are you more likely to believe? The collective works of dozens of independent researchers, or what Big Brother told you?



Don't believe researchers? How about the firefighters who were there that day? http://firefightersfor911truth.org/









In short, I don't think any intelligent person should write off "conspiracy theorists" without doing a little research of their own...if you can prove the government wasn't involved, prove it.



no, not so fast. you apparently did not understand my post in the least. one does not prove a negative. if you believe the government was involved, then prove it---posing alleged questions regarding the way towers fell, building 7, etc. is NOT proving the governmental conspiracy. prove THAT. in addition, the vague references to sources (according to Newsweek and other sources? link the proof don't just assert it, let's see it and let's see if it is in fact credible and whether it in fact supports what is claimed.)
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#28 Old 07-29-2009, 10:49 PM
 
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for those who are open to considering "conspiracy theories" before coming to their own conclusion - ever read/hear david icke?
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#29 Old 07-29-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Savannah View Post

no, not so fast. you apparently did not understand my post in the least. one does not prove a negative. if you believe the government was involved, then prove it---posing alleged questions regarding the way towers fell, building 7, etc. is NOT proving the governmental conspiracy. prove THAT. in addition, the vague references to sources (according to Newsweek and other sources? link the proof don't just assert it, let's see it and let's see if it is in fact credible and whether it in fact supports what is claimed.)



can you prove "terrorists" did it? have they proven it?
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#30 Old 07-29-2009, 11:12 PM
 
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MOD POST



In the interest of staying on topic, please take any 9/11 discussion to the appropriate thread.



Thank you!
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