Today is the day! / What do you think about Cultured Beef? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 08-05-2013, 02:03 AM
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Today is the day we might see a major change in the way meat is produced worldwide.

At lunchtime the first ever in vitro burger will be eaten live on webcam/tv in London. I will be watching with eager eyes as I believe this could make a major break through. I am against ALL death of animals but if 1 slaughtered cow can produce millions of burgers or pounds of meat this would be huge in terms of animal liberation. My understanding is small herds of animals would be needed to supply the stem cells but these could surely be left to live a cruelty free life and when they die of natural causes the stem cells could then be used (ideally but yes I know that is a simplistic/positive way of looking at it). If that wasn't possible then perhaps the animals could be euthanised rather than slaughtered as I wouldnt have thought any chemicals would make it's way to stem cells.

What are your thoughts on this?

Ps apologies as I know this isn't a vegan topic but I didn't know where to put it. Likewise I wouldn't touch it because it isn't vegan.



MOD POST- This thread (Today is the day!) has been merged with another, "What do you think about Cultured Beef?" (see post #22, below,) and together are being moved to The Veggie Patch, for general discussion. -Capstan
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#2 Old 08-05-2013, 02:44 AM
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The thought of eating in vitro meat fills me with horror but if others are okay with it than it's a huge win for the animals.

 

I'd have thought that you could harvest stem cells from live animals rather than having to wait until they are dead.  I imagine this is how it will be done and I have fears that there will still be inhumane treatment of the animals involved.  There's something about it that reminds me of homunculus being grown in jars in a Dennis Wheatley novel I read years ago.

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#3 Old 08-05-2013, 02:49 AM
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Gotta link for the web cam Pony?


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#4 Old 08-05-2013, 02:55 AM
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It's not going to be John Selwyn Gummer and his extremely reluctant daughter again is it? brood.gif

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#5 Old 08-05-2013, 03:01 AM
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#6 Old 08-05-2013, 03:04 AM
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I think the technology will come about where you can make stem cells from ordinary cells, and if so, you could make this invitro meat by just taking saliva from an animal.

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#7 Old 08-05-2013, 03:05 AM
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People keep calling it a Frankenstein burger etc and a friend even said he would only eat it if he did tonnes of research first.

I replied 'do you research the meat you currently eat? Ie what cuts of meat are in your mince, what has the animal been fed, what medication has she/he been given, did he/she have any illnesses etc'

He didn't have a reply and said it was a good point.

The health and safety checks on something like this will be a gazillion times more stringent than DEFRA checks on meat consumed at the min.
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#8 Old 08-05-2013, 03:15 AM
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if it takes off, eventually millions of people will have eaten it for years. If it is safe, there will come a point were most people will be able to see that quite plainly. There will still be a few people who won't trust it, but the majority will buy it cheap in supermarkets, and at McDonalds.

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#9 Old 08-05-2013, 03:18 AM
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If I reached old age, and end up in a home that didn't give a flip what my dietary preferences were, I would rather be given this stuff, than real meat.....so bear that in mind, especially in the US, I suppose.







.

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#10 Old 08-05-2013, 03:21 AM
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Being an abolitionist the whole idea goes against what my beliefs should be....... But I really can't see this as being a bad thing and also as stated hopefully the cells could eventually be obtained by saliva or alike!
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#11 Old 08-05-2013, 04:38 AM
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You could donate a few cells to get things going ponyboy. However probably best not to market the end product as a "ponyboy burger" in view of the recent horse meat scandal. grin.gif

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#12 Old 08-05-2013, 05:04 AM
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I think it's pretty great and I hope it's mass produced and marketed fast.  I don't understand why meat eaters think it's "gross."  They must not realize what farming and slaughtering living beings is about.  It should be cheaper than animal flesh, and it could be marketed as the "clean" meat that won't give you e. coli or diseases like mad cow or trichinosis.

 

I've never really thought that everyone would stop eating animals because they got a conscience, but because meat became too expensive or there was some equivalent like this.


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#13 Old 08-05-2013, 05:20 AM
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Forgot to mention that this will be streamed live from 1pm uk time on sky news' website.
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#14 Old 08-05-2013, 05:54 AM
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I think it's pretty great and I hope it's mass produced and marketed fast.  I don't understand why meat eaters think it's "gross."  They must not realize what farming and slaughtering living beings is about.  It should be cheaper than animal flesh, and it could be marketed as the "clean" meat that won't give you e. coli or diseases like mad cow or trichinosis.

 

I've never really thought that everyone would stop eating animals because they got a conscience, but because meat became too expensive or there was some equivalent like this.

 

Yeah I don't see why it's any more 'gross' than a lab cultured faux meat like Quorn tbh and millions of meat-eaters regularly tuck into that stuff for their heart health or whatever.


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#15 Old 08-05-2013, 06:38 AM
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Dunno where the stream was!

Chef said it looked great, had a great aroma and cooked no differently than a 'real' burger.

Lady food critic smiled when she tasted it then said it was tasty but not as juicy due to there being no fat in it what so ever and her worst critique of it was it needed more salt and pepper haha

Sky news cut off the male critic before he was able to talk but looked as though he was going to critique the texture.

Positive signs though!
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#16 Old 08-05-2013, 06:41 AM
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http://news.sky.com/story/1124687/frankenburgers-first-bite-live-updates

 

http://news.sky.com/templates/watch-live

 

Edit:  They were doing some live streaming on the 2nd link (I think) but moved onto another story now

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#17 Old 08-05-2013, 07:59 AM
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Ponyboy, even if a small amount of the chemicals they use to euthanize the animal with got in to the stem cells, by the time those stem cells multiplied a few billion times, the dilution would be so major that I doubt you would be able to detect any even with a gas chromatograph. Compared to all the crap that is pushed in to cows to keep them fat that goes un diluted in to the end product, that would be minor.

Also, I am an abolishonist as well, but I agree, this could be a huge boon to the animals in the interim. One thing to think of, how much this could drive the cost of "real" meat up especially if the fake stuff takes off. The real stuff would be a specialty "product". When given a choice between two products, most people make the choice with their wallets, hence why there are so many low end products on the shelves and those are the ones that move the fastest.
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#18 Old 08-05-2013, 08:41 AM
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I was a little dissapointed to hear Dr Post say that they could be in the shops in 10-20 years time. If they have made one now and it tastes good and has passed stringent checks then surely this is only a couple of years away rather than 2 decades. Sky news' poll stated that nearly 70% of people would be willing to eat it it. That's huge!

Also the fact it is being backed by a billionaire who co founded google can only be a good thing.
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#19 Old 08-05-2013, 08:46 AM
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Will this stuff cause heart disease and cancer like the real thing?


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#20 Old 08-05-2013, 09:00 AM
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How large, and how many, factories will be required to replace the cattle, hog and poultry industries? How much power will they consume? How much water?

 

Growing crops produces oxygen in the atmosphere for us to breathe. How much oxygen will we be deprived of, by pursuing meat production, regardless of the method?


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#21 Old 08-05-2013, 09:04 AM
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How large, and how many, factories will be required to replace the cattle, hog and poultry industries? How much power will they consume? How much water?

Growing crops produces oxygen in the atmosphere for us to breathe. How much oxygen will we be deprived of, by pursuing meat production, regardless of the method?

cattle burn up oxygen, so I don't think that matters.....what about all the oxygen that gets turn into CO2 by burning fossil fuels.

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#22 Old 08-05-2013, 09:38 AM
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Hot news on the 5th of August 2013:
 
"The world faces critical food shortages in the near future as demand for meat is expected to increase by more than two-thirds, according to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. 
Cultured Beef represents the crucial first step in finding a sustainable alternative to meat production"

 

Please see this website for more information: http://culturedbeef.net/ 

 

 

What do you think about Cultured Beef?

 

 

 

MOD POST-  This thread, "What do you think about Cultured Beef?" has been merged with the "Today is the day!" thread.


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#23 Old 08-05-2013, 09:46 AM
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I think it's a step in the right direction.

 

Is it vegan? No.

Will I eat it? Not likely.

Will I feed it to my cats? Probably.

Will it result in reduced animal suffering? Probably.

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#24 Old 08-05-2013, 10:19 AM
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cattle burn up oxygen, so I don't think that matters.....

 

What about the oxygen that won't be produced from crops that aren't grown, because the human race is pursuing meat?

Quote:
what about all the oxygen that gets turn into CO2 by burning fossil fuels.

 

Very true, but that's another subject.


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#25 Old 08-05-2013, 10:44 AM
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What about the oxygen that won't be produced from crops that aren't grown, because the human race is pursuing meat?

Very true, but that's another subject.

That land would eventually return to its natural state, which in most cases has a LOT more plant life than any acre of farm land ever would. This would especially be true in the more undeveloped areas of the world. Also, bear in mind that plants only "hold on to" CO2. Plants make carbohydrates and release oxygen when making their food, but they then need oxygen to then use that food. Plant life is more of a carbon sequestration than anything else. More plant life just means that more CO2 is sequestered in the form of carbohydrates stored in the plants (thus not in the atmosphere).
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#26 Old 08-05-2013, 11:10 AM
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If lab meat takes off, then it will need some sort of calorific input, which I assume may come from crops...not sure how it would work, but it wouldn't grow without some kind of input.

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#27 Old 08-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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If lab meat takes off, then it will need some sort of calorific input, which I assume may come from crops...not sure how it would work, but it wouldn't grow without some kind of input.

That is true, but he amount of input vs what a live animal would need would be much less (a full fledged living animal uses a lot of energy). I'm wondering if they could set up large vats to grow algae using waste CO2 as the primary algae food and use that to feed the "meat". I'm thinking a little out of the box on this, but they have grown algae in tubes using the waste products of a natural gas powered power plant as the food source...
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#28 Old 08-05-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post

If lab meat takes off, then it will need some sort of calorific input, which I assume may come from crops...not sure how it would work, but it wouldn't grow without some kind of input.

That is true, but he amount of input vs what a live animal would need would be much less (a full fledged living animal uses a lot of energy). I'm wondering if they could set up large vats to grow algae using waste CO2 as the primary algae food and use that to feed the "meat". I'm thinking a little out of the box on this, but they have grown algae in tubes using the waste products of a natural gas powered power plant as the food source...


oh yes, I realise that....that is one of the selling points; less resources used per kilo of meat, less pollution.

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#29 Old 08-05-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

I think it's a step in the right direction.

 

Is it vegan? No.

Will I eat it? Not likely.

Will I feed it to my cats? Probably.

Will it result in reduced animal suffering? Probably.

Could this kind of "meat" ever be vegan for you Elaine?

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#30 Old 08-05-2013, 12:46 PM
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I'm a little surprised and discouraged seeing what vegans on other sites have to say about this.  Lots of comments about how it's "disgusting" and must be unhealthy - very negative overall.

 

I would think that animal advocates would embrace a very possible solution to billions of animals suffering and dying.

 

And the health argument - we're never going to win on that one.  Many if not most people think animal products are necessary for their health, and if adults want to make unhealthy choices based on taste, that's their business.


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