Justifying Nutrition in Unhealthy Food - VeggieBoards

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#1 Old 06-21-2014, 06:41 PM
 
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Justifying Nutrition in Unhealthy Food

If there is one thing that bothers me it's people who try to justify their fast food or their cheap food.
I hear "well this Egg McMuffin is pretty healthy because it has protein and calcium!"
No. Just don't. I realize not everyone wants to be a vegan let alone a vegetarian. But I care about the health of others. I believe at the very least people should eat to the best of their ability. (although I believe that includes not eating animal products)

I was wondering if anyone has ran into people who try to justify their foods with "nutritional facts"?

My concern is I have a family member who I care for so much. I don't want him to keep lying to himself and continue to let him eat unhealthily. Do you guys have some nutritional facts/advice I could give him? My words just aren't ringing enough. But I want to see this person live a healthy life.
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#2 Old 06-21-2014, 06:54 PM
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Point out to him the amount of cholesterol and sodium on the egg mcmuffin?
Is that person willing to be vegetarian? Because I honestly don't know what health advice to give to an omnivore in a vegetarian forum. I want to suggest that instead of him eating meat from junk foods, that he eats healthier, lean meats. But suggesting any type of meat eating in a vegetarian forum just sounds wrong. But again, if he's not willing to be vegetarian there's not much else you can do.

"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge

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#3 Old 06-21-2014, 07:04 PM
 
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Extremely true. I'll try to suggest to him to take steps to eating less and less meat.
Fast food alone is not only disgusting for humans but disgusting for animals.
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#4 Old 06-21-2014, 08:02 PM
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I have similar problems with my family, so at least you're not alone!

I've been told not to push my agenda, from family members eating KFC....AFTER A HEART ATTACK!

So this is how I come at it now-

"I'm eating this and it's almost healthy for me because Iron"

Me: Yeah, you know, I used to think that too but then I realised that animals that are used to supply fast food....Be it their products, or their bodies, they're really really sick. I just don't think it's healthy to eat unhealthy animals or their products, y'know? I mean, can you imagine what that might do to our bodies?

It doesn't always work, obviously because none of my family are vegetarian.

But, I just try and not make them feel completely out of their depth. Nutritional 'facts' come and go. But eating an unhealthy animal, that's never going to be good for someone. Plus, it gets them thinking about the reality of what they're buying into.

(I've heard the 30 Day Vegan Challenge is meant to be good, for helping veg*ns learn about nutrition in a way that's easy to pass on to carnists. It might be worth a look. I haven't done it, so I can't say for sure how good it is. But I'm definitely going to give it a go soon).
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#5 Old 06-22-2014, 05:23 PM
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Most people do and will express justification for the stupid things they consume. And many are not interested in changing. We are all on a different journey and different stages of healthy inclination. When it is at all possible I like to try and teach people how all food nutrition is derived from raw plant sources and then the more it gets processed the less amount of nutrition it has (cooking and exposing cut plants to oxidization kills plant nutrition). Animal products are very processed, plants that are chewed and digested by an animals labor.

Caring about our health is caring about our very state of being and future which is a very good thing to be seriously concerned about making the most of.

 

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#6 Old 06-22-2014, 07:17 PM
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What is your concern about Egg McMuffins (besides containing meat)?

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#7 Old 06-22-2014, 07:38 PM
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Most people, due to the way foods are marketed, tend to think of foods in terms of a few nutrients they contain and largely ignore the other things in the food that may have negative impacts on their health. An Egg McMuffin has 12 grams of fat (5 grams saturated), 260 mg of cholesterol and 720 mg of sodium yet is only 290 calories. So, yeah, it has protein and calcium but so does a bowl of granola and soy milk and it doesn't have all the saturated fat, cholesterol and sodium and contains a number of other nutrients.
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#8 Old 06-22-2014, 09:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagineaa View Post
What is your concern about Egg McMuffins (besides containing meat)?
My concern is that my family member is eating processed fast food while they could just as easily be eating healthier. I'm concerned about the lack of nutrients this person is getting.
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#9 Old 06-22-2014, 10:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by logic View Post
Most people, due to the way foods are marketed, tend to think of foods in terms of a few nutrients they contain and largely ignore the other things in the food that may have negative impacts on their health. An Egg McMuffin has 12 grams of fat (5 grams saturated), 260 mg of cholesterol and 720 mg of sodium yet is only 290 calories. So, yeah, it has protein and calcium but so does a bowl of granola and soy milk and it doesn't have all the saturated fat, cholesterol and sodium and contains a number of other nutrients.
To add, eating fast food isn't always fastest. Sometimes you have to wait in lines. If you wanted, for example, something quicker than just eat some raw fruit or veggies, or already prepared meals.
The cost of fast food also adds up sometimes too, while you might not see it in the food area. Health concerns such as clogged arteries or heart issues can be acquired with excessive fast food. The cost of dealing with those issues is far more expensive than paying for some healthy food and not dealing with near as many health issues.
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#10 Old 06-23-2014, 02:35 AM
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Also the eggs used in fast food industries are more than likely massively produced factory farmed eggs from birds that are kept in horrible conditions and fed an unnatural but cheap and convenient formula of feed. The nutrition in that egg is not going to be as great as from a grass fed animal (speaking purely from a health perspective here). For McDonalds, in some of their egg products, including the egg mcmuffin, they also add margarine to the product to prevent sticking when the egg mcmuffins are cooked in metal rings. So add that to the saturated fat content also.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/mcdona...ry?id=14976054

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/...airy_eggs.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...elty-1.2128930

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...ype=blogs&_r=0
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#11 Old 06-28-2014, 02:03 AM
 
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Processed foods are really unhealthy foods but I sometimes eat some of them to indulge myself once in a while but I make sure that I have regular exercise and drink lots of water to detox the harmful effect of them. Reading and knowing the nutritional facts of processed foods are good but i must say the fruits and vegetables are the best foods.
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#12 Old 06-29-2014, 05:40 PM
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The language, or "rhetoric" of health is enough to convince the lazy minded. Most people do not eat ethically, and could care less about how chickens are treated. Thank the goddess you are among the enlightened.


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#13 Old 06-29-2014, 07:05 PM
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Magnesium is superior.

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#14 Old 06-29-2014, 07:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeekin View Post
My concern is that my family member is eating processed fast food while they could just as easily be eating healthier. I'm concerned about the lack of nutrients this person is getting.
While I get your concern, this is kind of like the opposite of that other female who posted about the friend telling her "You know, people will make fun of you for eating vegetarian". It's kind of like.."well, who are you? The food police?" You know?

***No disrespect meant at all, but you can only say so much to one person, right? They have to learn to make better choices as far as eating is concerned, on their own.
Encouraging them to do other healthful things may also start to reflect in their eating habits, too.

Example; I notice when I have those days that I really feel amped to take that 5-6 mile hike all at once, I also feel like super duper cleaning house and enjoying more healthful foods and tons more water. An overall sense of wellness, I guess.


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#15 Old 06-29-2014, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gita View Post
The language, or "rhetoric" of health is enough to convince the lazy minded.
Ha. I was just thinking that today, while looking at multigrain bread that appears to be not whole grains, and colored brown.

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#16 Old 06-30-2014, 01:09 AM
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My rule of thumb is to be instantly suspicious of anything that makes any health claim at all.
For instance:
Low carb margarine
Low fat sugar cookies
Sugary neon breakfast cereal with heart healthy flax seeds
Anything that claims to be healthy tends to have some even more unhealthy attribute.
My supermarket decided to put a 'GMO Free' tag on 'Himalayan' pink salt (no joke). Affluent foodies with hypertension can now rest at ease knowing their salt doesnt come from a... genetically engineered salt tree?
o.O
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#17 Old 07-09-2014, 09:22 AM
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I personally think that blowing the fat or calorie count occasionally Is not going to lead to horrible health consequences. It is when people eat like this every meal, every day that it becomes a health issue. A "feast" will not hurt your health and may even be good for you. And as for the egg McMuffins (meatless I am assuming) dietary cholesterol was proven years ago to have very little bearing on chronic health issues. Having some free floating cholesterol in the blood stream for one day is not going to harm anything. Having it in there all the time will. Neither will smoking cigarettes one day out of the year (If it were possible).

Science is overly simplified for common consumption. X is bad, we are told, when it is more like X in the presence of Y only when Z occurs is closer to actual truth. Salt also does not "cause" hypertension, it contributes by causing water sparing in the kidneys or tissues which is needed in many cases. Why do you think they pump you full of saline solution when you are sick? Hypertension is actually the symptom of a larger systemic chronic syndrome.
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#18 Old 07-16-2014, 10:57 AM
 
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The thing is,that just because someone is vegan, doesn't mean that they are healthy. There is so much processed vegan food out there and plenty of junk food options that are vegan. Yes, you need to learn how to eat whole foods in the right portions. I'm all for moving people toward a plant-based diet, but there has to be nutrition education involved too, not just what foods are right or wrong to eat.
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#19 Old 07-16-2014, 04:33 PM
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My preferred method is to go, "Oh, I know they try to advertize that as healthy, but that isn't really that good for you." Then tell them why, keeping it factual. Then I suggest other things, including heathier meats! Something like, "Most beef and pork is high in saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium. Some fish can be quite healthy, and should definitely try to get lean cuts when possible (which they can't at a restaurant usually)."

The net effect is that, even though they know I don't eat meat, the friend/loved one knows I am not just trying to guilt them into eating straight up veggie. What I've seen happen a few times is the person may order something like fresh fish with veggies or a nice salad instead of the meat lovers pizza or cholesterol/saturated fat laden meal. For many people if you confront them with a straight up vegan alternative they will resist thinking you are perhaps being self-righteous or such a jump is either too much or not for them. Start them on the path and they may find the veg*n road by themselves.
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#20 Old 07-22-2014, 04:52 PM
 
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Make them watch the BBC 3 parter 'The Men Who Made Us Fat' as well as sugar documentaries on YT. These companies study food preferences like crazy and are feeding off of our evolutionary instincts to get us to buy more. This pretty much scared me off junk and fast food. Rarely have it anymore and am careful where I get it. There are probably a lot of good vids about hormones and overfeeding animals to bulk them up quicker - leads to fatty and/or unhealthy meats. What goes on in slaughterhouses - if not the killing, then the acceptable unsanitary practices such as floor meat and trace contaminants being OK. There must be some good vids about additives and preservatives (to lengthen shelf-life, improve taste) and links to cancer, cognitive disorders etc. Fast food is crap. You're paying a conglomerate for poison.
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#21 Old 09-02-2014, 04:46 PM
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People will always find way to defend their bad choices whether it be relationships, smoking, over indulging in alcohol or unhealthy food. I did the food thing for all of my life and I don't know that person today. It takes time to find our way and unfortunately many never find their way.

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#22 Old 09-03-2014, 02:37 AM
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If they don't listen I give up and just wait for them to get heart disease so I can say "I told you so".

I'm a horrible person.
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#23 Old 09-03-2014, 05:56 AM
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Vegans do it too in their desire for "healthy" comfort food. "It's vegan and raw so this raw "cheese"cake is good for me right?"....um no...it's full of sugar (raw agave is not a health food) and fat (coconut butter is not 'healthy') and calories (it says only 100 calories per serving, but did you notice the serving is the size of a dime?).

People justify it by saying "but it's healthier than regular cheesecake isn't it?"....can't argue with that, but please don't call it healthy.

End of rant about that.

On topic: It's maddening for those of us that attempt a healthier lifestyle to watch loved ones make poor choices for themselves and their families. I don't have any advice since for my family giving information, nagging, setting the example all doesn't seem to help. One day hopefully they'll understand and wake up, but sadly sometimes it takes a hard knock to get people to change.
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#24 Old 09-30-2014, 02:11 PM
 
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To protect our well being, I suggest paying majority of food finances in whole foods, and only ten percent or even a lesser amount of in processed foods.

Regrettably, the majority of us currently do the contrary, that's throughout significant part exactly why countless have a problem with unhealthy food urges. Practically all processed foods are rather created to experience a higher "craveability" element, and really difficult to get goods that do not contain higher amounts of hard to sugar as well as carb supply.
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#25 Old 09-30-2014, 02:30 PM
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If they don't listen I give up and just wait for them to get heart disease so I can say "I told you so".

I'm a horrible person.
I don't think you're a horrible person. I guess you don't need to rub it in their face, but if they just blindly blazed forward on a diet of crap, crap and more crap when they had been informed of better choices that's their fault, not yours! Not much can be done for those who don't want to listen. More often than not, they get defensive and offended when someone suggests what they believe (or want to believe) is true isn't. Many people take it as a personal attack rather than you caring, and may even go eat more of it just to prove a point. Sometimes, you just have to step back and try to lead by example rather than pushing the issue. It's not like the information isn't widely available to anyone who cares to look. I also have a few family members with this attitude. Not even disease that could be helped by an improved diet and a bunch of family, friends and multiple different doctors telling them to eat healthier changes their mind. Maybe I'm a bad person, because I won't put up listening to them complain about how they're some "tragic victim" of their self-inflicted medical issues. Sad when it's someone you care about, but only so much you can do without completely ruining the relationship with them
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#26 Old 09-30-2014, 11:47 PM
 
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I don't think you're a horrible person. I guess you don't need to rub it in their face, but if they just blindly blazed forward on a diet of crap, crap and more crap when they had been inforhowmed of better choices that's their fault, not yourssince! Not mHeuch can be done for those who don't want to listen. More often than not, they get defensive and offended when someone suggests what they believe (or want to believe) is true isn't. Many people take it as a personal attack rather than you caring, and may even go eat more of it just to prove a point. Sometimes, you just have to step back and try to lead by example rather than pushing the issue. It's not like the information isn't widely available to anyone who cares to look. I also have a few family members with this attitude. Not even disease that could be helped by an improved diet and a bunch of family, friends and multiple different doctors telling them to eat healthier changes their mind. Maybe I'm a bad person, because I won't put up listening to them complain about how they're some "tragic victim" of their self-inflicted medical issues. Sad when it's someone you care about, but only so much you can do without completely ruining the relationship with them
I've got a friend that is only 37, but is crippled up with fibromyalgia, arthritis-like symptoms, gout-like symptoms, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, depression, and anxiety. He's on an insane number of medications, some to treat side effects of other medications. He can barely walk, has handicapped tags for his car, and more than likely qualifies for disability. Your body doesn't do that to itself. When things like that happen, it's either because you're toxic, deficient, or both.

He's been a great friend, but I really don't like being around him anymore since it's like visiting someone in a nursing home. I visit him out of obligation because I don't want to desert him when he was there for me when I needed him. I'm honestly afraid he won't be around for another 5 years.

I've tried to talk to him about his dietary and exercise habits, but he doesn't want to listen. He went vegetarian for awhile, but loaded up on the cheese. Then complained that it didn't work. He supposedly tried vegan for awhile, but if he did, it wasn't for very long and he expected results almost instantly. Having that many things wrong with him will take awhile to fix. It didn't happen overnight and won't be fixed overnight either.

It's so frustrating because he saw me fix my health problems, but seems to think I'm just lucky. I believe in God and in miracles and that I was possibly led to the answer to my problems, but I ultimately did what I needed to do to allow my body to heal. It wasn't sheer luck that I am now healthy. I'm living proof of what proper nutrition can do for you, yet he dismisses everything I say about using all-natural foods and products without even trying to get him to go vegan. We're not even talking about only healthy food. We're talking about bare minimum, cutting out man-made toxins. How can someone be in that bad of shape and stay so willfully blind?! I'm watching one of my best friends slowly killing himself and can't do anything about it. Makes me want to scream.
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#27 Old 10-01-2014, 04:16 AM
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Vegans do it too in their desire for "healthy" comfort food. "It's vegan and raw so this raw "cheese"cake is good for me right?"....um no...it's full of sugar (raw agave is not a health food) and fat (coconut butter is not 'healthy') and calories (it says only 100 calories per serving, but did you notice the serving is the size of a dime?).

People justify it by saying "but it's healthier than regular cheesecake isn't it?"....can't argue with that, but please don't call it healthy.

End of rant about that.
Most of my diet is pretty healthy most of the time. But an occasional blowout isn't going to kill me so when I have a dessert or cookies or cake, I want the full blown, full fat, full sugar version. I would always rather have that occasionally than a supposedly 'healthy' version every day.
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#28 Old 10-08-2014, 07:42 AM
 
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Some people think that nutrition is present only in healthy food. But., I think that it is actually not true. Some unhealthy food can contain nutritious constituents sometimes.
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#29 Old 10-08-2014, 10:24 AM
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Thats the difference between nutrients and nutrition.
A nutrient ('nutritious constituent', as you call it) is an individual chemical compound involved in some aspect of fueling or maintaining the body. For instance, ice cream has the nutrient calcium. The effect of nutrients is theoretical when dealing with a food item.
Nutrition is a real world whole effect of the food as it is consumed. Its defined as:
'The organic process by which an organism assimilates food and uses it for growth and maintenance.'
If the food in question is unhealthy, promoting unbalanced/insufficient growth or deterioration rather than maintenance, it is not nutrition but rather its malnutrition, or junk food.
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#30 Old 10-08-2014, 10:47 AM
 
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I have some family members like this. One of them has been very sick with cancer for over 5 years and had a heart attack 2 years before that. Yet he is constantly judging my diet and making fun of the foods I make and serve even though they taste great.

What I have done with family is this.

1)I start off by not saying anything but making sure to set an example when I am with the family member, eating as healthy/vegan as possible in front of them even when out to eat. This invariably causes THEM to bring up the subject ("what are you like a vegetarian now or something?")
2) Then, since they asked, I'll tell them about a couple books I read (ETL, China Study) and I'll share my experience with losing weight/dropping cholesterol 80+ points with diet. They usually say "that's great, good for you!" and leave it at that, so I won't say anything else that time.
3)But almost always, at a later date, they will then ask more questions about health ("But protein!" etc) or what books I was reading. When this happens, I will either buy them the books, or offer to let them borrow mine if they live nearby.

So far this has resulted in one other family member reading ETL, and the other two not touching the books as far as I know and continuing to eat crappy. But at least I can sleep knowing I did what I could.
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