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Why is everyone leaving VB again?

22K views 168 replies 55 participants last post by  Jasminedesi16 
#1 ·
Why have so many mods and great long-time members left? Is it the ownership? The members posts? Trolls? Ads?

Please let us know.
 
#2 ·
The VB's admisisters cover page has really put me off. It's like a generic magazine article patronizing their veg readers rather than a forum that's exclusive to vegetarians!

The "troll?" threads have gotten out of hand. I wish they could be contained into one thread rather than garbage up the forum. It's hard to know sometime what people are like when they post that way. I recall one really ocd member that i considered a troll for a while. He would question everything, starting new threads for each question. He was active for a while and became much more open about his life and now I wonder what happened? Anyway, not to discourage anyone, but if threads could be more easily merged that would help.

I wonder about so many who join and then disappear. It isn't even like there's been much disparaging of anything, they just don't come back.

I also think posting links to first time members should need to wait a period of time/posts before posting links to their blogs/videos. Really any link.

I know many here do ban themselves temporarily. When you're 'banned' do you still get messages? How about changing the label of banned when it's self imposed to something like 'on break'

We have had old time members return for brief hellos. I wish I knew what their concerns were with the forum

VB has seemed more tame now than in past days. More focus on food than ethics? I wonder if too much? Need more compost perhaps?
 
#5 ·
VB has seemed more tame now than in past days. More focus on food than ethics? I wonder if too much? Need more compost perhaps?
I really enjoyed following the recent debate between No Whey and Joan about certain practices in the dairy industry and how best to frame discussion about them with non-vegans. But it's so rare on the internet to see two grown ups actually behaving themselves, listening to the other's point of view, and not reducing the discussion to personal abuse (in fact I've seen some quite ugly pile ons on here in the past). I'd love to see more of that kind of in depth discussion here, though I'm inclined to be an observer than a participant.

Also, I do love food..

Yes, and the spammers and attention seeking eight year olds are really frustrating.
 
#3 ·
VB definitely seems like less of a community than it once did. There are fewer long-term members and experienced veggies to help out the new folks. Less non-vegetarian-related discussion. This probably creates a downward spiral of reduced interest.

I agree with silva about the front page.

I was gone for a while because of all the drama with the forums splitting. I was a mod then, and it was just sucking up too much of my time and attention. I came back last year when I decided to go vegan. I find it less time-consuming now because there are just fewer discussions. I mainly stay to give advice to new veggies and learn about new food ideas. I definitely have no interest in posting as much as I used to.
 
#4 ·
I agree with silva - new posters should have to make an intro post (or something along those lines) before they are allowed to post links. That should help with the spam and the "self promotion and never return" posts. I also agree with her comments about the home page and merging threads.

Maybe a veggie FAQ would be helpful? (Forgive me if there already is one) Just with answers to the common questions like how to deal with your family/friends as a new veggie, what to do if you accidentally eat something non veggie, what to bring to a meal with omnis etc. I feel like a lot of the posts around here are more or less on the same subject and when the talk around here is the same thing all the time, people will be more inclined to leave. The FAQ, for example, is something I'd put at the top of the homepage. That way it's easily found.
 
#6 ·
Spudulika, I think I love you! And I also think I might be learning to take the temperature of the room. Someone like NoWheyJose you can trust not to take something sharp personally, so you can push some things harder. She probably senses the same thing about me, so we could really get into the weeds without injury, but it doesn't always line up like that. I've driven one or two people off in frustration, but at least one of them came back, to my relief. It's not just anyone you can engage the way you can engage NoWheyJose.
 
#8 ·
I find it frustrating that so many new people come here and introduce themselves, and then you never hear from them again. And the new members that post just to advertise and drum up attention to their own blogs but do not bother to contribute to the rest of the forum I find annoying. Almost as bad as the juvenile trolls.

I also agree with silva regarding the front page, and with Dormouse regarding there being such a small number of core experienced members left here, and very little non veggie discussion going on. People get bored and move on. There just isn't the investment and interest in this community that there once was.

As a moderator, I personally had a difficult time keeping up with everything and felt like I was doing more behind the scenes babysitting than being able to jump into the forums and be part of the community. I love the regulars that post here, and I love helping newcomers and learning from others and just having a place to hang out. It's too bad the other stuff gets in the way of a potential great community. I was a member of several other veg*n forums with similar issues that became overrun by trolls or just completely died out.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I do see this problem: It's hard to find your Questions and Answers!

In order to see your questions & answers, you first have to click on your name, then click on "Statistics", then click on "find your posts".

On other forums (like Yahoo Answers), they have a big tab that says, "My Questions & Answers". Much more straightforward!
 
#12 ·
Thanks to Spudulika and Joan for the compliments! I worry that I get too invested in debates and that I might come across as a bitter person who's just looking for an argument, so it's good to know that my posts are seen in a positive light! I've always loved debating and I have respect for anyone who can argue a point articulately, even when I disagree.

I'm relatively new to VB and sad to see it disintegrating. What can we do to keep it alive and thriving?
 
#21 ·
As said that thread was great and the contributions were great and I'd love to see more of the same. Consequently I wonder whether we could have debating questions posed for those who do enjoy a good debate?

Like a well behaved Devil's Advocate thread or threads, posed by v*gans to v*gans rather the kind of typical confrontational crap that comes from omni trolling.

A lot of the YouTube channels I most enjoy involve in depth questioning of commonly held ideas, both by omnis and vegans. Perhaps we could choose a provocative YouTube video topic to discuss, or an article perhaps, but ensure that the debating tone is kept at a sensible grown up level where there is no abuse, intimidation of or 'pile ons' to those who may differ from the majority or most popularly held view.

The great thing about a properly-moderated forum, is that real in depth democratic discussion can take place, possibly like no-where else on the internet. I think there is a real potential that Veggieboards could be great space for this.

And I don't think we have 'too many' vegan food discussions either, just too few of the other meatier (so to speak) ones.
 
#13 · (Edited)
well, people probably often find VB when they google a question like 'is honey vegan?'...they follow the google link and read the comments, and then their question answered, they go away.

One way to increase posts could be to stop google scanning old posts, maybe, and then someone would maybe join and ask the question.........well...it's one possibility..although people will repeat questions ad nauseam..:rolleyes:

plus, I think we really need a shrug smiley.
 
#105 ·
Just jumping in here as an old time ex member from about 2007(?) who came back a short time ago.

How many times have you seen on a thread that someone (new) is asking the question (for example), 'is honey vegan', and some long time member replies rather shortly, 'oh no, are we talking about this again?' and then finish that comment with 'why don't you do a search for old threads?'.....and then 'roll their eyes'. That's very off-putting.

Also, maybe it was going gangbusters years ago because it was a novelty but now it's just not. And there's so many vegan blogs and such out there, that it's gotten relatively easy to find answers to any question or find a zillion vegan recipes or whatever other info you might be looking for.
 
#14 ·
So I'm jumping on the bandwagon about the articles on the front page which do the entire site a disservice. If I'd seen those when I first found veggie boards I would not have joined.

Some of the articles seem to be written by someone who hasn't had the time to research the question properly (e.g. cats ethical meaty pet food vs vegan pet food) or with no actual interest on the subject (veggie marathoners - this one probably annoyed me disproportionately as I'm a runner and by now know quite a lot about racing nutrition and what endurance racing does to your body). Surely we have members on here with some knowledge about these subjects? I think it's telling that the last few front page articles have had no replies and spawned no discussion.
 
#15 ·
Well, "we're" on Facebook now, so we can all be friends.

I guess that's how they think it works? I, too, dislike the articles. Stop pandering/patronizing the members. They may think that Facebook and these articles drive traffic to the site, but it's not the right traffic. I've heard through the grapevine from other forums that social media definitely does hurt them, but then that means that forums now have to entice users in other ways.

A few things that I've found recently, anyways: (1) the lack of discussion, (2) the lack of the ability to discuss, and (3) how we sometimes 'come across' to new people as complete stereotypes.

For (1), there are way too many threads about food. There's an entire lifestyle related to veg*ns, so why not explore this area for discussions.

For (2), I've been told and have seen that this site is a "safe-haven" for veg*ns. I understand that it won't (and shouldn't) tolerate hate; however, questions or feedback from members that may not be inline with the 'stereotypical' views of veg*ns shouldn't be chastised.

For (3), I get frustrated when someone comes on here asking a legitimate question about eating meat and the response is "I wouldn't put burning, rotten, dead, horrible, bloody flesh in my mouth". Ok, that's not good for anybody. It reiterates a ridiculous stereotype about veg*ns, and is quite uninviting to new members. They have a legitimate question, and we've essentially rebuked them. These people need our guidance and support, not our scoffing and finger-wagging.

Sorry, not trying to offend anyone, but I've found that forums are generally for discussions. The best part of forums are that you learn about others, their beliefs, and how a particular belief system doesn't exactly fall squarely into a box. There are no particular rules or guidelines that are to be strictly followed in life (generally speaking, of course).

If you want a safe-haven where no one will question your views, don't go into public. Call/email/text your likeminded friends to all rant together. I enjoy discussions, because it helps me learn what I don't know. It also helps me learn about the opposing side of any particular argument. If we discourage discussions outside of our comfort zone, I'm probably going to come around here less. I like getting outside of my comfort zone.

As the great Eleanor Roosevelt said: Do one thing everyday that scares you. If that means stepping into someone else's shoes for a moment, I'm all for it.
 
#17 ·
If "stepping into someone else's shoes" means tolerating hunters and meat-eaters on a veg forum, then I strongly disagree. If there's one place where we can speak truthfully about meat, it's here-- and, frankly, if someone can't handle a plate of dead flesh being called a plate of dead flesh, then they shouldn't be discussing things on the internet.
 
#16 ·
Years ago, this forum was a target for anti-veg trolls. A duckhunting forum invaded en masse one time.

That is why we are leery of questions about desert island stranding and insects killed in agrigulture, etc. We can go pretty much anywhere IRL, or on Facebook, Twitter, the web, youtube, etc and argue veganism with omnis all day long if we're in the mood. This is the one place we don't have to listen to that.

The hardest part while transitioning and just living life as a vegan is the food. That's why we talk about it so much, I guess.
 
#18 ·
Years ago, this forum was a target for anti-veg trolls. A duckhunting forum invaded en masse one time.

That is why we are leery of questions about desert island stranding and insects killed in agrigulture, etc. We can go pretty much anywhere IRL, or on Facebook, Twitter, the web, youtube, etc and argue veganism with omnis all day long if we're in the mood. This is the one place we don't have to listen to that.

The hardest part while transitioning and just living life as a vegan is the food. That's why we talk about it so much, I guess.
I heard about that. It's unfortunate, but that doesn't mean we have to treat all newcomers as trolls. Some people are just ignorant.

Well, if people come on here for a discussion, they may truly want to learn. I would not compare the discussions on here to those on other social media. You'll truly get trolls there. But, sometimes some meaningful conversations would be nice.

I understand about the food. Is there any way to get some of the other topics somewhat active?

If "stepping into someone else's shoes" means tolerating hunters and meat-eaters on a veg forum, then I strongly disagree. If there's one place where we can speak truthfully about meat, it's here-- and, frankly, if someone can't handle a plate of dead flesh being called a plate of dead flesh, then they shouldn't be discussing things on the internet.
If this forum is solely meant for those to complain about meat eaters and to not discuss topics or to help provide guidance, than I am in the wrong place.
 
#19 ·
I am pretty new myself so I did not know all of this happened.

The facebook thing...no sorry, I will never be liking this forum on facebook. Also I don't really use facebook for anything. I did read a few of the front page articles when they were coming out but they had problems which I mentioned in the comments. I haven't bothered reading any of the newer ones.

heh TailFin, I will actually sometimes argue for something I don't personally believe in. I find it a good way to expand your understanding of a subject.
 
#20 ·
heh TailFin, I will actually sometimes argue for something I don't personally believe in. I find it a good way to expand your understanding of a subject.
It absolutely is a good way to expand your understanding. I do it all the time, as well.

Just because you play devil's advocate doesn't mean you have to believe in, support, or accept the opposing argument. It means you're trying to understand the opposing argument to make your own argument stronger. I'm comfortable enough in my own beliefs that I feel I can do this; perhaps not everyone can.
 
#24 ·
Who are the active mods now?

My general impression is that a few more would be nice. Do the mods not respond to reported posts any longer? I know I haven't received any response to the ones I've recently sent: Poppy 13 January 2016
I've quoted Poppy's recent post from another thread as an illustration of how we members have become disconnected from the mods. Not sure why the admins couldn't have announced the 3 mod resignations from the last couple of months? Also I don't think it's sufficient to have the list of mods in an obscure corner of the FAQs (in Articles).

And what exactly is an "active mod"? Surely all the mods should be active, or what's the point of them being a mod? Having been a mod until fairly recently, my idea would be to lose non-participatory mods at the same time as recruiting fresh mods. Without that, obtaining mod consensus in a mod vote could be a problem, especially when "time is of the essence".

Referring to the administrator, it was my opinion in May 2015 when River relinquished her mod and admin roles that we still needed an admin from among the mods, to help coordinate mod actions, with the site admin acting only when technical help was needed eg member name change etc. Nothing that has happened since has changed my mind.
 
#30 ·
The Front Page

Not everyone who visits VeggieBoards is in the same spot of the path towards Veg*nism. Some may be just thinking about starting a Veg*n lifestyle while others may have already been Veg*n for years. The front page of the site is intended to invite further discussion on featured articles/discussions and to perhaps join the site if they have not already. Please keep in mind that the articles are not meant to be an "authority" on any topic. They are simply meant to open a discussion where everyone can respond with their thoughts and maybe include some research they have found. It is 100% okay for people to disagree, even passionately. That is how we all learn by hearing all sides to a topic and reaching to reach our own decisions.

I do not (nor does our tech staff) write the articles. We have a team of writers that we use. I would much rather have our featured articles and topics come from members of our community. If you are interested in being a guest author on VeggieBoards, please feel free to contact me.

Social Media

Yes, we do have a very active Facebook page. Some of our Facebook followers are members here, while others may only follow us on Facebook. We want to be able to reach people no matter where they choose to spend their time online, including here or on social media. The featured post regarding our Facebook page is simply letting those who may just be visiting our site for the first time know that we also have a Facebook page.
 
#31 ·
Thank you for addressing our concerns. This community has been around for more than a decade, and it means a lot to us. We have lost scads of great contributors due to different admins changing things and making it less veg friendly here.

Does your team of writers get paid? Would our members be paid for article submissions? Why were member articles not brought up before?
 
#33 ·
To answer Ledboots' question in the first post: I think many people get tired of, or bored with, a message board and just leave. The drama can get out of hand and drive still others away. But largely, boards just have their ups and downs. I joined my first message board in 1999; since then, I've seen some fold, and others deteriorate to the point where I couldn't see wasting my valuable time on them.

Nowadays I just laugh at trolls (if I pay any attention to them at all- which is rare). But sometimes even a troll brings something up which is worth responding to.

I'm not conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm probably to the right of the VB membership generally. It doesn't bother me.
 
#35 ·
http://www.veggieboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200593
Trolling does not seem to be taken seriously on this forum case and point. Sometimes one person will have 5 new silly threads you have to scroll through on the first page of active topics. Also the vegans can be a bit hard on the vegetarians sometimes which kind of sucks. In truth though the good far outweighs the bad so I will stick around :D
 
#40 ·
Just an FYI, when I was moderator, I sent numerous private messages to the author of "My Dad" and other threads with warnings and pleadings, only to be ignored. I then asked the administration if it would be possible to put these types of trollish members on moderated status so that their posts would have to be approved by moderators before being seen by the public. The moderators do not have the power to do this. Again no response, nothing. I left shortly after so it's possible something was set up after I left. It's also difficult to simply ban members and delete threads without a mod consensus unless it is something really obviously rule breaking, like spam or promoting meat eating.
 
#37 ·
We have an Articles section that contains many pieces written by VB members, past and present. If there's a need to feature articles on the home page, why not draw from these, rather than solicit non-members- basically strangers- for their work?

Also, I think the home page should serve some utilitarian purpose, like information on who the current mods are, and how to contact them, maybe a FAQ article, and a quick link to the posting guidelines, for easy access.

http://www.veggieboards.com/index.php?page=Vegetarian-Lifestyle-Articles
 
#38 ·
I agree with some others -- the front page is very generic, and I almost never visit it. It makes VB seem like just another ad revenue-generating site with minimal content.

Sometimes I get tired of the "vegan police" attitude that sometimes seem to take hold on VB, and people who make abundant posts when they first join but never give any indication that they read or appreciate the advice given. I think sometimes this is a maturity issue, but it does make me leery of putting a lot of time or effort into posting.
 
#43 ·
Some personal thoughts:
List of moderators shouldn't be accessible for the safety reasons, with it it's much easier to establish at which hours to attack.
Moderators should have additional anonymous accounts for moderating purposes only, and not use their private accounts for this - sometimes it makes hard to intervene when you know the offending persons and you don't want to loose their sympathy, etc.
It would be nice to have a subforum/hidden posts accessible only for registered 18+ users for more "drastic" discussions, hello threads, etc., it would make forum much cleaner for tourists, less friendly for spammers, and more welcoming for honest discussions. To lift off some moderators duties, if enough people would mark some thread as inappropriate for general viewing it should be moved automatically to a closed subforum without any moderator intervention.
Also moderators should be mostly for supporting forum users, not for prosecuting them. After all, we have the same goal, even if we differ in means to get there.
Ignoring/silence is not a friendly way to deal with troublesome users, because it's hard to tell the difference between negative silence and positive silence, and it may put off also friendly users. Treat all users as adults, and there's a chance they will start to behave like one ;) If someone is still troublesome, it should be clearly marked and visible for him/her and for others.
OK, enough for now :)
 
#44 · (Edited)
In reference to the front page: in my opinion, it's pretty awful. It just seems so...commercial, for lack of a better way of putting it. The numerous stock images give it a feel of a website that was put up quickly and with little care or thought by someone with no interest in the topic at hand. In other words, it just seems like "filler". I actually hesitated in joining again when I saw the front page because it was obviously not the same site that it was previously. I understand that things change and everything evolves eventually but it's not always for the better. I think this is an example of just that. Honestly, I don't know what the answer is, however, I think some good ideas have already been put forth in this thread and they definitely warrant a closer look.

In addition (and this may be an unpopular opinion but I'm going to throw it out there anyway)...if the current administrator is non-vegetarian then I see that as a primary issue in and of itself. Simply put...you can't understand this lifestyle and all the things that go along with it if you're not actually living the lifestyle. For example, I may have a rudimentary knowledge of airplanes but if I've never actually flown one myself, I don't need to be the administrator of a forum catering to pilots. I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone...I think it's just a matter of needing to have a genuine, working knowledge of what you're involved with.

For the record, I was a member here years ago when it actually felt like a real community...back when you would see several familiar names posting frequently and always with helpful advice and insights. It definitely doesn't have that same feel now. Just my 2 cents...
 
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