Originally Posted by sailorwife5704
So I have noticed a lot of omnis go the Biblical route when trying to debate veg*nism. Then there are veg*ns who say "Jesus was a veg*n. (which is simply not true, he ate fish and lamb and fed the crowds fish as well)
I simply try and avoid that whole biblical debate anyway. But I am not a vegetarian because eating meat in itself is bad or ungodly or anything. I don't feel that is true. I don't eat meat because of today's practices. God never intended for these things to go on the way they do and I cannot support that. (and I can't find the logic in thinking it's not cool to eat my dog but ok to eat a cow. Makes no sense. I think I felt this way because I was brought up that way and society says that's ok)
But, for those verses in Genesis which to state that humans are vegetarians, I agree, we were. Until Noah. Genesis 9:3 "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." It goes on to say that we cannot eat meat with it's lifeblood still in it and that He demands accounting for it.
But forcing your beliefs on others is wrong as well. Romans 14:2-3 "One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him."
1 Corinthians 10:31 declares, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." And I know it also says to give thanks for all he has provided. As long as this is done eating meat in acceptable in God's eyes according to the Bible.
Just thought I would put this up and share a I know many use Genesis 1:29 as reference to vegetarianism and Christianity. But if you come across someone who knows they Bible well, that argument will not stand up strongly against the many other later scriptures stating the consumption of meat is "=okay and "clean"
Some of your points: Jesus ate fish and lamb.
Yes, Jesus miraculously fed 5000 people from the five loaves of bread and two fish that a boy had with him. Does that one act of a miracle mean he should be branded an omnivore? He did not go out and KILL any new fish...he miraculously reproduced the existing two fish that were already there. Hey, if God miraculously reproduced meat for me and told me it was OK to eat that, I might nibble on a few bites of it. That might be the ONLY scenario, outside of a huge natural disaster where our resources are extremely limited, when I'd concede to eat meat.
You also have to put this in context: This was in the middle of a wilderness. This miracle didn't happen in a city in the middle of a farmer's market. These masses of people came to hear Jesus teach and I doubt were as well fed as many of us associate being well fed. The text of the Bible says Jesus had compassion on them. That pretty much teaches me that if it comes down to His people or a couple fish, it's sorry fish. And in an extreme circumstance. It does not give liberty to us to go down to the local grocery store and stock up on meat like a glutton.
Some further points:
It is believed that Jesus belonged to the Essenes, which I have not looked into myself and it could be as a dubious claim as others about His life and the non Biblical texts. But the Essenes abhorred animal sacrifices and were practicing vegetarians. (I personally do not hold this view...Jesus would not have belonged to a group that shunned the Law of Moses.)
The view includes that Jesus drove out the money changers from the Temple. The "den of thieves" were selling animals for sacrifices. But I don't believe He was protesting the animals being sold, but profit being made off of God's ordinance.
There is no mention of Jesus eating lamb, poultry, or beef casually for regular meals-not even during the last supper.
Yes, Jesus did follow the law of Moses, and that would have included the Passover, which includes the ANNUAL eating of meat (and these texts that the Bible commands us to eat meat are so taken out of context to justify overeating of meat today. Yes, God told Noah that now these animals are given to us to eat, but when you look in the books of law on HOW they should be eaten, it's only during times of ANNUAL sacrifice, and the ways to prepare the animal are VERY SPECIFIC. This is a FAR FAR FAR cry from the eating meat three times a day most gluttons in the world practice!!!!) so one might argue that Jesus ate meat then. Even then it was annually, and you can count on it that He did it with great reverence and respect. Again, this is a vast contrast to how so-called Christians claim they should be allowed to eat meat and belly up to the buffet after Church every week and eat meat all the week long.
You have to also bear in mind that Jesus also came to SHED HIS OWN BLOOD to put a STOP
to the animal sacrifices.
Have you shed any of your own blood to put an end to people eating meat lately?
Yes, you can argue based on Biblical texts that Jesus seemed to allow the practice of fishing and eating of meat because He Himself did not condemn fishermen, but used their profession to teach them lessons. He told Peter to STOP being a fisherman later in the texts. He did eat the passover feast, but STOPPED the need for the Passover by giving His own life (and Jesus' sacrifice is now remembered with the communion: bread to represent His body, wine to represent His blood. No meat!) Perhaps you could argue from the texts that Jesus was a flexetarian, but you'd have to work awfully hard to prove to me that Jesus was a barbeque eating omnivore who feasted on meat three times a day who went to the Sizzler and ate meat any chance He got. He did eat meat as allowed by the Law of Moses, but Jesus came to fulfill that Law. We are not required to do those things anymore.
While we are not strictly commanded to NOT eat meat in the New Testament, and I do believe that the New Testament actually frowns on making it a religious ordianance to refrain from eating meat (I Timothy 4:1-5) I don't believe God frowns on the abstaining from meat on a personal level. Just don't be preaching it from the pulpit as if it is a do or die doctrine. It is not. That said, I honestly believe that the New Earth/Paradise/whatever God has next for us is going to be a purely vegetarian life. And I really do believe God would be completely against the modern practices of factory farming and would abstain from those things if He were walking the Earth today as Jesus Christ. (And I could probably go into that further...God really seems to HATE the abuse of animals, so much so that He allowed an angel to talk through Balaam's ass when Balaam cruelly beat the poor animal. It is evident to me that God opposes the abuse and exploitation of animals!)
And another point: when God had to feed the Jews in the wilderness after Moses liberated them from Egypt, He did not choose to send doves to die and fall from the sky. He did not choose to send them any animals at all to eat. God gave them manna every day to eat, and you can bet that was a vegan meal. A delicious vegan meal!)