WHATS the point in 'weaning' yourself off meat or dairy??? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-27-2003, 05:40 AM
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I have seen a number of posts where people have stated that they are 'weaning themselves from meat or dairy products'.



I mean REALLY.



I became vegetarian straight away, and then vegan straight away. What's the point in slowly changing what you eat, because surely if you believe what you believe passionately and you are well informed about WHERE YOUR FOOD ACTUALLY COMES FROM



eg. poor ickle piggies, minding their own business, once roamed, but are now in chops on your plate



then you would want to make the 'transformation' in your diet STRAIGHT AWAY. Any of this weaning NONSENSE just shows you are either

1) not strong willed enough to follow your beliefs

2) not really serious about becoming veggie





Your comments please
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#2 Old 06-27-2003, 05:44 AM
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Not everyone is V**n for the sake of animal rights, and being an activist.



Some do it stricly for health reasons, so they slowly make the transition.



Then there are people like me, who wanted to use the remainder of her cow cheese in the fridge instead of throwing it away. I did give a lot of my food up when I made the switch, but I couldnt afford to give it ALL away. So, for me it was kinda sudden with a few little exceptions, budget wise.
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#3 Old 06-27-2003, 05:45 AM
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You're right. I just won't do anything then. I will never be as strong or as dedicated as you so why even try?

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#4 Old 06-27-2003, 05:48 AM
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Some folks will experience adverse reactions to a sudden change in diet. In fact, some may even feel run down or sick. It's fine to have a moral belief in something, but not everyone's system is identical. It is indeed a shock to the system for many people.



As such, it is better for these people to take their time and ease into it. Otherwise, that sudden adverse reaction may make them think they cannot do it or that their body is unable to make the change, and then go back to being omni... which their body readily accepts.



ETA: Oh, and Muzicfan makes a good point... not everyone turns to veg* for animal reasons... for some it is purely a health decision.
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#5 Old 06-27-2003, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert

Some folks will experience adverse reactions to a sudden change in diet. In fact, some may even feel run down or sick. It's fine to have a moral belief in something, but not everyone's system is identical It is indeed a shock to the system in many people.



As such, it is better for these people to take their time and ease into it. Otherwise, that sudden adverse reaction may make them think they cannot do it or that their body is unable to make the change, and then go back to being omni... which their body readily accepts.



I felt that.. boy I had headaches, and issues the first couple weeks, but the body adjusted. Now I dont have as many problems.
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#6 Old 06-27-2003, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael

You're right. I just won't do anything then. I will never be as strong or as dedicated as you so why even try?





WOW How mature. When did I say not to become veggie or vegan?





P.S. I am not the enemy, merely voicing my opinion.
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#7 Old 06-27-2003, 06:01 AM
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Umm, in my opinion, weaning yourself off of meat or dairy is a great way to go vegetarian or vegan. We're very much used to eating a meat and dairy-centred diet, and the "weaning" means that you have a smooth process.



If you ask me, it's bloody hard to be omni on monday and then vegan on tuesday. There's so much research upon e-numbers to do, and you have to go through an extreme dietary overhaul. If you can do it in one day, then I have a lot of respect for you.



But that doesn't mean to say that I don't have a lot of respect for those who wean themselves. I found a humourous guide to being vegan online, and it recommends the weaning process:

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/vegan/vegan.html



The point is that respect for those who wean themselves off of meat should be high. They have made a commitment towards improving animal welfare, and should be praised for doing it, even if it wasn't done overnight.



REMEMBER: Rome was not built in a day.
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#8 Old 06-27-2003, 06:04 AM
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Yes but what I mean is, if it suddenly dawns on you or whatever that your MEAT was once ALIVE and it is killed FOR YOU, then what makes you still want to eat it? (Assuming that you are weaning yourself veggie for the sake of animal welfare/rights)
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#9 Old 06-27-2003, 06:13 AM
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Giving up meat or dairy is no different than giving up alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, etc. Just because you can quit cold turkey doesn't mean everyone can.



And for someone new to vegetarianism or animal rights doing too much too soon can cause them to get burnt out and quit. Best to do what works long-term.



There are so many people who don't do anything, I just have no patience or respect for people who criticize others for trying.

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#10 Old 06-27-2003, 06:26 AM
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Michael
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#11 Old 06-27-2003, 06:32 AM
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One may also need time to get resources together. It took me awhile to figure out what to do with tofu. I also had to do a lot of reading to come up with a menu that healthy, convenient and tasty. And again, my reasons for becoming vegetarian weren't based on animals rights.
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#12 Old 06-27-2003, 06:52 AM
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Wow. I really don't have much to add - I totally agree with what the others have already said.



I'll leave you with this, though: it's that judgemental, absolutist attitude of yours that turns many omnis off to veg*nism totally. How sad that we'd lose a potential new veggie because they felt that there was no room for anything but absolute perfection.
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#13 Old 06-27-2003, 06:57 AM
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I'm not a bible guy but I'm still going to smack you with some Matthew 7:



Quote:
Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

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#14 Old 06-27-2003, 07:37 AM
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I stopped meat cold turkey, but it was very difficult. I did it not because I cared one bit about animals (I originally went veg for health reasons), but because I figured that if I tried weaning, I wouldn't have the willpower to eventually cut it out.



It is really hard to go from eating the standard American diet one day, to eating a healthy vegan diet the next. For some people, they can do it. Many need a more gradual approach.



I don't care if it takes someone months to cut out meat or other animal products...when they finally do, they are helping both themselves and the animals. We all have different paths.
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#15 Old 06-27-2003, 08:29 AM
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i stopped meat altogether except for fish then like 1 month later stopped fish (the fish was my parents idea as i was 10 years old)



i went completely vegan over night after learning more about it, but thats because of animal rights and moral reasons



i personally dont care How people get to veganism... as long as they get there

every little bit helps



i dont care what their reasons are either, because you could go vegetarian cause the voices in your head say so... and it doesnt matter because you will be saving lives



getting all 'more vegan than you' doesnt really accomplish anything except turn people off from veganism and vegetarianism

want more people to go vegan? SUPPORT them!



also i think its better for someone to take 3 months to go vegan and stay vegan forever rather than just jump into it overnight and then sell out a year later



my 2 cents

Caroline
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#16 Old 06-27-2003, 08:31 AM
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Wow! I agree with ScareyVegan...



I even pinched myself and it hurt... so I know I must be awake!



Seriously though... I think she hit the nail on the head.
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#17 Old 06-27-2003, 08:40 AM
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oh no!

robert isn't allowed to agree with me!



i feel wrong now

maybe i should edit my post

hehe



Caroline
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#18 Old 06-27-2003, 09:12 AM
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I became vegan for animal rights reasons and I did not wean myself, I went straight off the animal products because I was horrified by what it really was and I wanted to stop immediately.
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#19 Old 06-27-2003, 09:16 AM
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I mean REALLY, what is up with people who go vegan and then get all intolerent of others?



Any of this judging NONSENSE just shows you are either

1) not strong willed enough to appreciate the good in what others are doing.

2) not really serious about being compassionate of others and their individual circumstances.



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#20 Old 06-27-2003, 09:17 AM
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Totally agree Thalia. Totally.
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#21 Old 06-27-2003, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thalia

I mean REALLY, what is up with people who go vegan and then get all intolerent of others?



Any of this judging NONSENSE just shows you are either

1) not strong willed enough to appreciate the good in what others are doing.

2) not really serious about being compassionate of others and their individual circumstances.






Woo Hoo
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#22 Old 06-27-2003, 09:32 AM
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sappyvegan,



I think it's really simple. It's called human nature.



I too find it logically contradictory when someone goes veggie, but not vegan, or decides to take it slowly. Yet this is the way many react, and it's perfectly understandable. In fact, it's very predictable that many will react this way.



I don't hate people for being humans. I love people.



I admire all veggies who do it because of ethical reasons, they all "got the message" that those animals are not ours to exploit.



Many find it difficult (or even consider it a too extreme change) to go beyond a certain point. That's fine. They're still not ignorant anymore about animal farming. They too will help spread the word, and this is what counts IMO.
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#23 Old 06-27-2003, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by scareyvegan

lives



getting all 'more vegan than you' doesnt really accomplish anything except turn people off from veganism and vegetarianism

want more people to go vegan? SUPPORT them!



Caroline



I agree with your entire post. But this stood out. I hate that "holier than thou" attitude. It come with so many frickin' things!



People are just so conditioned to being an omnivore, that veganism is so radical. And it is radical in today's society, still. It's coming to a point where it's becoming more "normal." For example, there are people in the Raw Foodism thread that think raw foodism is extreme for them, just like veganism is to Omnis. Like Oatmeal is doing, he's carefully explaining it so he doesn't look like a "holier-and-I'm-getting-more-nutrition-than-thou" freak, because he isn't a freak about it. Don't put people off. It's annoying! I know the first vegan I met put me off of on it for awhile.. Then I decided on doing some research.. Most omnis wouldn't.
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#24 Old 06-27-2003, 10:16 AM
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I agree with auroralily...



One may also need time to get resources together. It took me awhile to figure out what to do with tofu. I also had to do a lot of reading to come up with a menu that healthy, convenient and tasty. And again, my reasons for becoming vegetarian weren't based on animals rights.



...except I did make the decision based on animal rights. I knew about the treatment of animals on factory farms. Missleigh would always tell me about stuff if asked, but never in a preachy way. I joined PETA, and watched some video footage from farms. Not a good thing to do at work. It tore me up. I guess I'd never really let it sink in when I'd see that footage before.



I quit eating pork and beef first, because I didn't eat much anyway. The elimination of poultry, eggs, and seafood came about 2-3 months later. I, too, had to research and ask around about just what I was to eat in place of meat, where to get protein (turns out almost *everywhere*), etc.



I went ahead in my intro and said I still sometimes eat cheese and eggs as ingredients, but not in my own cooking, hoping no one would jump down my throat. So far, so good. And I don't know if or when I'll become vegan.
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#25 Old 06-27-2003, 10:19 AM
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I went pescatarian overnight. Even though I'm not religious, I used Lent as an excuse to do a (fairly long) trial run. All those weeks later, I just said, "OK, if I can survive it that long then I can survive it forever," and that was that. Later I eliminated all fish and seafood.



I can relate to someone who does it gradually despite their ethical dilemma -- after all, I used to be an omni who knew (deep down) that it was wrong. I also wasn't entirely happy with still eating fish, but it was a step ....



I'm also reminded of how often we say that if omnis would even just cut down on meat, there would be an ethical benefit to the world. Someone who gives up meat gradually is surely contributing to that.



Going vegan was much harder for me -- and yes, I felt myself to be in an ethically untenable position for my last 6-9 months as an lacto-ovo! Yet I still did not give it up immediately. However, when I finally made the decision (after one failed attempt), it was a "cold-turkey" thing.
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#26 Old 06-27-2003, 10:49 AM
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Weening yourself off meat, huh? I thought that's what meat analogues were for. I used to eat those because I didn't have a frame of reference for a vegetarian diet. I thought all we ate were carrots and lettuce. We kick ass.



But I say let people do what they want. Nothing anyone does makes any sense to me, so leave the meat weaners alone. And when they're ready they'll leave the meat weiners alone.



rigmarole
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#27 Old 06-27-2003, 10:53 AM
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I don't know, I kind of agree with sappyvegan. I became a vegetarian right away, when I was 14 and realized my parents couldn't make me eat meat anymore. I mean, what were going to do, shove it down my throat? But I had never, ever liked meat so becoming a vegetarian was no hardship for me, it felt right and natural.



I strongly believe in becoming vegan BUT I do like cheese, I do like chicken eggs. I want to raise my kids as vegans. I don't think I am strong-willed enough yet to overcome this, becomign vegan would be some hardship for me however slight.
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#28 Old 06-27-2003, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
originally posted by rigmarole

Weening yourself off meat, huh? I thought that's what meat analogues were for.



Actually when I was vegetarian I almost never ate meat analogues, and there were only two kinds that I liked at all. They basically seemed gross and not-at-all-like-meat to me. Cheese was my meat substitute.



Now that I'm vegan I find that I am liking meat analogues more and more. My cheese substitute? Also the fact that I don't remember what meat really tastes like, so now the analogues are good? Who knows.



Sorry, know that was off-topic.
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#29 Old 06-27-2003, 11:07 AM
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Wow... Michael and Scareyvegan said everything I wanted to.



When I went veg cold turkey in junior high it didn't work because it didn't give me time to figure out what to eat. (The only vegetarian things I knew how to make were quesadillas and salad.) In high school I weaned myself off meat, and it gave me time to study nutrition and vegetarian cookbooks, which aided my argument with my parents immensely and made it so that I didn't get bored with my new diet. It didn't take too long, but I found it helpful. Nearly nine years later, who really cares how I decided to go veg? I think the point is that I was successful.
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#30 Old 06-27-2003, 11:59 AM
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I knew thought I'd say this..

I agree with everything in scaryvegan's post /faint



On behalf of the vegetarians who PM/email me to vent about how they feel picked on by some vegans on this site, I want to say that I believe it is more harmful that some vegans act holier-then-thou then a vegetarian buying an egg from a local ethical farmer.



[quote]

Any of this weaning NONSENSE just shows you are either

1) not strong willed enough to follow your beliefs

2) not really serious about becoming veggie

[quote]



I assume this is the "bait". The main thing it does for me is make you appear intolerant of the efforts of others. Some people want to ensure that they are looking after themselves nutritionally and need time to learn that. I've been involved in helping people make that switch nutritionally and I'd rather, from a health perspective, that people take their time at it. What use is a sick and feeble vegan, except spreading a sterotype?



Some people never become vegetarians. Some never become vegans. More will not if they are told they have to drop every food they've grown up with today or they aren't good enough in the eyes of some vegans.
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