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ARGHHH...I am so mad.

2K views 33 replies 12 participants last post by  kpickell 
#1 ·
I just got off the PETA website. I know they can be a bit extreme, but I was blown away by what I read about the treatment of cows--"like milk machines," it said.

I have a friend who drinks tons of milk. She knows it pisses me off, too. She just pours herself a glass of milk and looks at me, knowing I'm fuming inside. I know you can't push your beliefs on others, but she knows how cruel it is, and still...she doesn't feel a bit guilty.
 
#2 ·
Most people don't care about the animals I've noticed. It baffles me as to why people do not care, when they claim to love their pets as family and ooh and aww at animals in the zoo...I guess it just does not sink in.


Is she just drinking milk and not doing it to purposely annoy you or is she being an ass and only drinking the milk to make you upset?
 
#3 ·
out of sight out of mind.. its hard for most ppl to follow consuming animal products to its logical conclusion.. i guess they have built up enough addiction to their comfort foods to be able to force themselves to ignore it.

if a man shoots a deer, did he kill it or did the rifle? if a woman pays a man to shoot a deer, did she kill it or the man or the rifle? one must be able to admit its the woman's fault; if she didnt pay, the deer would be alive.
 
#5 ·
This happend to me the other day..Ive been cooking delicious Vegan meals and the house is cleared of milk and cheese..we still have some butter and eggs and I will let my FI eat them,and then they will be gone..!!But,I ususally send him with a Vegan lunch,as of late,and the one day I didnt..I aked what he had bought for lunch..TURKEY SANDWICH!!

I was so pissed,off.I mean he read all the material with,is doing the learning process with me..what the heck is his mental problem?What an a$$.It really hurt me and I dont feel like cooking for him anymore...
 
#6 ·
She just drinks glass after glass of milk. She does it to annoy me deliberately. Like, I'll tell her how bad I think it is to drink milk, and she'll go get another glass. So yeah, I think she resents me telling her that and does it on purpose.

Then we get into a big argument about it. She says she likes milk and will continue to drink it. She eats meat too, but I'm not even gonna go there. She eats it because "her dad didn't want her to go vegetarian." I am just pissed at her for being so weak-willed, and then drinking tons of milk around me when she knows I hate it. Why can't she wait until I go home so she can chug away?

When I told her she drank too much milk, she told me, "Well, you drink too much orange juice, and that's not good either, so there.

HELLO! It's not about that. It's about the fact that drinking milk displays a complete indifference to the suffering of animals. She claims to love animals yet acts in complete opposition to that ideal. She loves cats and dogs, and doesn't want animals to hurt or suffer. How can I make her wake up?!!!

She is my best friend and I really wish she could be a vegetarian. I know she wants to be, but outside pressures keep her from it, somehow.
 
#7 ·
i don't get the fuming part. i mean, that really only hurts you and doesn't convince anyone else.

also, people do really care about animals, they just don't know about alternatives. perhaps you could point her toward raw milk, where cows are not treated the way that they are in the industry. the guidelines for producing and selling raw milk are very strict, and imo, cows are well cared for on biodynamic farms.

so, if she doesn't want to give up milk, tell her about an alternative that is more humane.
 
#8 ·
"This happend to me the other day..Ive been cooking delicious Vegan meals and the house is cleared of milk and cheese..we still have some butter and eggs and I will let my FI eat them,and then they will be gone..!!But,I ususally send him with a Vegan lunch,as of late,and the one day I didnt..I aked what he had bought for lunch..TURKEY SANDWICH!!

I was so pissed,off.I mean he read all the material with,is doing the learning process with me..what the heck is his mental problem?What an a$$.It really hurt me and I dont feel like cooking for him anymore... "

See, what's weird is that people don't realize how much their actions hurt others...

I'm sorry this is happening to you, Bumble... *sigh*

once people get attached to meat, milk (ugh) it's hard for them to stop, especially if their parent, or inner voice, or whatever, tells them to keep at it.
 
#9 ·
She's friends with me! She knows about the alternatives. We live in a very vegan-friendly area, where there are tons of vegan stores, restaurants, you name it. There are many vegans here willing to help out, myself included...

she does this deliberately. I know I can't make her do anything, but I just find it hypocritical...
 
#12 ·
what i'm saying is not to point her toward vegan alternatives, but to point her toward omnivore alternatives. most people don't want to become vegan. it's nto because they are cruel or dislike animals or any other thing--at some level they don't feel called to it or they don't feel it's healthy or appropriate.

therefore, i think that a good thing to do is say, don't buy factory-farmed milk, buy raw milk from a biodynamic farm. It's healthier for her and better for the planet, for the animals, etc. Don't buy factory farmed beef, buy local, biodynamic, grass fed beef. that sort of thing.

it's making positive changes that may lead to other changes--even if it doesn't lead to vegetarianism or veganism.
 
#13 ·
well, that's another issue too. If she's doing it to bother you, then that's a respect issue. But, if she's doing it because she likes milk, then that's not about you at all, and you have to respect her choices.

i would ask her if she's doing it just to bother you. if she is, then ask that she not do that because you find it disrespectful. if she says that she isn't doing it to bother you, then perhaps you need to rethink you assumptions. you know?

it can be worked out.
 
#14 ·
I don't understand. Why shouldn't I try to direct her to vegan alternatives?

Drinking milk, aside from being a cruelty issue, is also a severe health issue: it's bad for you! why should I let someone I care about keep drinking, what is, in all practicality, poison?

The human body was never meant to ingest the milk of another species. Period.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by V422005 View Post

I don't understand. Why shouldn't I try to direct her to vegan alternatives?

Drinking milk, aside from being a cruelty issue, is also a severe health issue: it's bad for you! why should I let someone I care about keep drinking, what is, in all practicality, poison?

The human body was never meant to ingest the milk of another species. Period.
Poison? I wouldn't go that far... Do you also get mad at her when she eats brownies/junk food? I really don't think you should be butting into someone else's business. How would you like it if she kept trying to get you to drink milk?
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by V422005 View Post

why should I let someone I care about . . .
You're not in a position to 'let' her do anything. Perhaps if she is doing this to annoy you, then your response to it only seems to be making it worse.

Sometimes you have to trust and respect people enough to let them make their own decisions in their own time. By all means share information, but you can't change them. All you can do is look after your own corner of the world and hope your influence spreads. Force and nagging will only lead to people backing away.

Bumble, I know it can be frustrating when others don't seem to be as commited as you. My bf and I both decided we would become vegan 'one day' (we were already vegetarian). I started making changes straight away, replacing cow's milk with soya milk, etc. He didn't. It took a wake-up call, accidently eating a meat sausage roll thinking it was vegetarian, for him to start moving. He turned to me and said, 'I'm going to do it.' And we both did from that moment. I never pressured him, but because I'd done the groundwork - I did the learning and the research about how to change - the door was wide open when he was ready to join me. What I'm saying is that often the best approach is to give someone room to change in their own time. They may never become what you wish they were, but that's their decision, and all you can do is be there with encouragement and answers when they come looking.
 
#18 ·
if a person already eats beef and have no intention of stopping, then you're simply asking them to switch the kind of beef that they eat to a more humane source. if they already consume milk and have no intention of stopping, then you're simply asking them to switch to a more humane source of aquiring this product--which is doing something for the animals, environment, community, and personal health. i simply was giving examples of alternatives that a person can make. obviously, if they don't eat beef, then there's no need to suggest that they start. but, for people who do consume beef, providing an alternative is a positive change that moves a person in the right direction.

Also, i disagree with the statement that "milk is poison." milk is not poison, it is healthy, and humans have been consuming it for centuries for good health and nutrition. on the steppes in mongolia, horse milk is their primary diet. in tibet, it's goat and yak milk; in iran, turkey, iraq, it's yak, goat, and sheep; in india, much of asia and most of africa, it's cow and goat milk. those people live long and healthy (considering they have little to no medical intervention)--so milk isn't poison--when it's fresh and raw!

but, i will agree with you in part. pasturized milk is hard to digest for nearly 80% of the adult population regardless of race or sex (according to johnshopkins studies published last year). it is too sugary, not enough fat or protien, so it's not very healthy at all. Perhaps i would stretch that to "poison."

but, raw milk, and raw milk products, are not poison and are very healthy. if a person wants to drink milk, their best choice is raw milk (i don't drink milk, but i do consume cheese, made only from raw, nonpasturized milk). again, it's not only healthy, but it is a positive change for an individual who doesn't want to give up milk (for whatever reason).

i'm only suggesting that you consider that some people may not want to be vegan, but they can still make positive steps "for" the animals, environment, and their health, by opting out of factory farming industries. i see it this way, if a person isn't going to go veggie, at least they can 'opt out' of the major industries by choosing certain farming practices that care well for the animals and slaughter more humanely than the industry slaughter practices.

i guess, ultimately, some improvement is better than no improvement.
 
#19 ·
I'd like to interject that people question what "humane" means when it comes to animal farming for human food. People like to assuage their conscience with that word (comment not directed to anyone on this thread). But when there's profit motive involved - as there is for farming - the animals are commodities, and are basically treated as such. http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php

But I agree with Zoebird that some improvement is better than no improvement.
 
#20 ·
i think that what "humane" means does have to be considered.

while COK is right about the legal requirements for soemthing labeled "free range," it is possible to find places that are really good and support them. similarly, not all farms send their animals to slaughter house/feed lot scenarios.

at the farms that my husband and i have researched, the meat is slaughtered on the farm by a local, roaming butcher who is highly skilled. i've actually witnessed the process with him (and now his eldest son who is 15 and is apprenticing), and found the process to be stress free for the animals as well as everyone else around. It was quick, stressfree, and I dare-say--painless. So, it is a striking difference from slaughterhouses.

so, while i don't advocate going out to the super market and buying whatever says "free range" on it, i do recommend researching the farms and the butchering methods to see if they are the most humane that you can find.

for dairy, aother VBer researched Organic Valley farms extensively and i've found their butter and raw cheese products to be very good. we cannot get raw milk from them, and so far, our nearest raw dairy is not producing butter, only milk, cream, yoghert, and sour cream. hopefully, they'll move into cheeses soon.

so, it's pretty easy to find really good alternatives if an individual does his/her research.


a little bit always goes a long way, and one change often leads to more and more. (also, most people discover that organic/biodynamic meats are very expensive so they eat less anyway which may lead toward vegetarianism!).
 
#21 ·
Well (no surprise) I don't agree about "humane" commercial dairy (including OV farms), in large part because of the cruelty of calves being removed from their mothers at birth...here's the humane dairy thread...

http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=25441

But to give you credit, Zoebird, I understand that you personally go to the farms you purchase from, which is admirable, and which most people don't make the effort to do.
 
#22 ·
I suggest you let it go and continue to lead by example..we were not all raised Vegan and cnnot expect everyone to up and be vegan,the minute WE descide to do it.

The best thing is to be polite,answer questions when asked and lead by example..thats what I am doing,but I am not going to loose my omni friends/fi becuase of my choice!

good luck sweetie..I know how you feel!
 
#23 ·
irizary:

you're right; not everyone does what i do, not everyone even thinks about these issues. but, while not everyone does this for themselves, i'm capable of doing it myself and sharing the information with others.

Since i work as a yoga teacher, people ask my advice (nutritionally/dietary) all the time, so i may suggest considering vegetarianism (by giving hte Why vegan? pamphlet), but i also tell them that it may not be for everyone and that there are great alternatives (we have our own pamphlet about local farms, consciencious omnivorism). As i'm moving into personal training, nutritional consulting, and other aspects of health/fitness--using my yoga/ayurvedic/thai massage training as my basis or foundational theory--i'm going to have to listen to individuals very closely to see what sort of changes they're really open to and how to teach them to eat well and healthfully, while still paying attention to other issues. For me, it's whole-system health: body, mind, spirit and reaches beyond physicality to consciencious living in general. So, being prepared helps me help others.

This saturday, for instance, i'm taking my friend to where i shop and the farms that we go to. It's part of her change to a healthier lifestyle (i'm also working as her personal trainer, etc). for me, grocery shopping takes two-three hours a week. I have to drive about 1. 5 hours of that time to get to where the products are. We're going shopping together so that i can teach her what to look for on labels (such as organic pasta sauce or something), and then what to look for in quality product from the farms. so, i'm educating her all the way. Also, her diet is changing to meat once a day--instead of two or three times. That's a huge reduction for many people, and thta's also a good pro-animal change.

so, for me, i have the opportunity for huge impact, but i also have to be mindful and introduce subtle changes, see how people feel, talk about the changes, and see what other changes they may want to make. some might become vegetarian; some may not. to me, it's not as important as their mindfulness in the process. so, i need to know, i need to know how to share what i know with others.

as for dairy:

in our region, most of the dairies (of the organic/biodynamic kind) do not necessarily remove calves from their mothers. When they do, it's for medical reason, but more often, it's after they've started to wean. in this area, calves are kept with their mothers. males are neutered relatively early, and those who are not neutered are removed once they start to mature. these bulls are often traded among farms to keep herds genetically healthy.

Not all farms are ugly. i want to avoid ugly farms--i think others do too, even if they're nto going to be vegan or vegetarian. So, we have to look around, find alternatives for our friends who may not be ready to "take the plunge" into something that really challenges individual and cultural notions. . .to something accessable and really healthier for them.

interestingly, there are many "land o lakes" owned small dairies in our area. Small farmers who couldn't compete were going to have to sell their land/businesses. LoL subsidized them. now, these dairies run a lot like the biodynamic (in regards to calves), but the cows are given antibiotics and hormones, and are machine milked. But, for some elements, the cows are well treated, though i wouldn't necessarily buy LoL because it is paturized, which i think is less healthy.

anyway, just information.
 
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