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Seemingly nobody supports me wanting to be vegetarian.

2K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  Vegan Dave 
#1 ·
This is more just a vent post, I don't know if anyone here can really actually solve my problem. But the people around me don't seem very supportive of my decision regarding this. And this is going to be a big wall of text, so sorry.

Well, I'm a 24 year old male, and an athlete and fairly avid weightlifter as well. I grew up omni all my life, my early childhood was a fairly healthy omni diet mainly of food from my "health nut" dad, and was pretty slim, but then after my parents divorced my mother was stressed out, I lived with her, and I got a diet of all processed food and ballooned up. I eventually got to over 230lbs at 5'9, and had high blood pressure. I started doing a sport at 20, after no sports from around 6th grade on, and dropped my weight down to 180lbs or so along with my blood pressure, though basically through crash dieting.

I started lifting weights, and as you'd know along with the weightlifting culture, comes a lot of meat eating. I got exposed to "paleo" and tried it out, and my weight went up to a much fattier 195lbs and I felt horrible and started getting much more anger and anxiety, along with generally less mental power/function. I eventually developed a UTI infection and long story short, the Western medicine doctors I saw were no help, so I looked up some alternative medicine stuff for it, and got into Chinese medicine theory, and Chinese medicine says it's from excessive "heat" in the body, and basically recommends a more vegan/vegetarian diet to resolve this. So I tried it and am now UTI free.

This also coincided with me meeting a trainer at my gym who was a vegan and who kind of nudged me towards it as well, though he's a raw vegan and I ended more in the McDougall type diet camp, he was a very good guy, and despite being very firm in his beliefs, wasn't like, say... Durianrider or something, in zealousness. He had more the type of body and lifestyle I wanted, so obviously, you learn from people who have what you want.

Religiously, during the time I started with my sport and exercising, I started going to an Orthodox Christian church. Orthodox Christians, for those unaware, are supposed to be vegan for about 1/3 of the year, on Wednesdays and Fridays most weeks, during Lent, Nativity Fast, etc. So the "paleo" diet was actually a big conflict religiously with me. But, coinciding somewhat with meeting my friend above, one Lent I decided to be as strict as possible and I lost even more weight, gained more muscle, felt better, and had better training than ever. So, religiously, I feel a vegetarian diet is more fitting with my religion than meat eating.

I guess one of my biggest problems is what I'd call the St. Paul problem. For those who know, St. Paul in Christian religion was a man who persecuted and even put to death Christians, who eventually became a very zealous one himself. My problems come a lot from my almost zealousness in meat eating. My mom remembers my complaints of not buying enough meat and eggs every week when I tried going "paleo." My friends remember how much I used to love beef jerky as a teenager. Some of my friends hunt and shoot, and somehow or another seemingly once a week or so will make a joke/say something negative about "pussy vegetarians" or say "you better not become one of those vegetarians..." I've told them I try to eat a "mostly vegetarian diet" bringing up most meat's added hormones, and basically only make exceptions for meat eating for friends, family, social outings, etc, but at home tend to eat vegetarian.

But my mom for example, finds it absurd when I say I want to be vegetarian because of me complaining about there not being enough meat in the house years ago. So, I'll say I don't want to eat meat anymore, and then the next day she'll buy more meat that unless I eat it, it will get spoiled and she'll get mad I didn't eat it. And in some ways, I still do like meat as well, so it feels like trying to quit smoking and then having someone buy you packs of Marlboros.

All my friends and family have seen my body change over the years very positively, but then say silly things like "Oh you're just naturally skinny" when I spent half my life obese. Even worse, they'll be like "Oh, come on, have some more pizza, you're so skinny!" after I've already had like 8 slices. Last year, this type of stuff wasn't as big of a deal, but seemingly this year, I've had lots more trouble with this type of thing, and have gained weight at least in part from eating, say, pizza and burgers in "social eating" type of situations. Pretty much all of my family members (except one of my sisters) are obese, along with most of my friends. So I wonder if on some level if even if they think my diet/etc is "true" they wish to drag me down with them?

Ideally, I'd like to eat lacto-ovo vegetarian, along with fish a few times a week (sorry if fish isn't allowed for this board) and eat mostly in McDougall-esque macronutrient framework (high carb low fat.) As this type of diet feels the best for me. In my sport I'd like to compete nationally, or maybe even internationally one day as well, and I feel I need to get more serious about my diet and not give into the temptations of friends and family with meat and general bad food eating if I wish to get to that level.

The problem is putting my foot down, and saying "this is the way things are, if you don't like it then screw off." I've tried being nice, accommodating, flexible, etc, but it seems people just tend to figuratively walk all over me. I've also always been socially somewhat "weird" and have weird/obscure interests not many other people around me have. Maybe one of the biggest problems for me, too, is eating might be one of my last shared bonds with normal people, and I don't wish to give that up, people know I enjoy eating and tend to eat large portions so I'll be invited over to eat by friends when they're making a lot of food.

I've been thinking about this all lately, on Thursday a friend of mine for helping him with his car wanted to take me out to eat. I declined about 4 times in one day, saying I already made a big pot of potato and chickpea pulao at home, but he went anyway to a Pakistani restaurant and ordered me food, with meat. This fourth of July, my mom bought a big amount of meat as well. I no longer feel healthy eating meat, I can feel my skin and hair get greasier, and tend to get more agitated/angry if I eat it.

So, how do I put my foot down to people who don't seem to take my dieting seriously? With my friend for example, I refused 4 times. I really don't wish to offend people, and make another part of me "weird" to people, but do you sometimes have to? In Orthodox Christian tradition, for advice on fasting, generally the advice is if you're at someone's house and they offer you food with meat on a fast day, to just accept it to not offend them. I feel like doing this is OK one time with someone who doesn't know you, but what about people who do? Aren't they now being the offensive one and not you, after already making your wishes known to them?

I don't know if anyone has advice or encouragement for me, but I just needed to vent about this. I feel like I could be doing nutritionally much much better, and be feeling and training better with better nutrition, but the temptation, lack of support, and lack of understanding from other people is holding me back, and other people see it as not mattering as to them being under 200lbs is skinny (because so many people are much over that) but don't understand needing to be say, 170-180, to be competitive and optimal.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for any replies.
 
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#2 ·
Depending on which state you live in, there may be a vegetarian/vegan social group near you. That can be a great way to meet vegetarian friends and get support. You can find free vegetarian social groups (and other social groups as well) through http://www.meetup.com . Just enter your ZIP code and interest ("vegetarian"), and it'll tell you whether there's a vegetarian meetup near you. This is how I met my beautiful vegan wife.
 
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#3 ·
I apologise in advance if I don't answer all your points.

First, congrats on getting healthy! It's a struggle for a lot of people and you've done it! Well done. I hope that continues for you.

Second (just to get this out of the way) no, none of us eat fish on these boards. Lacto-ovo vegetarians don't eat animals, any animals. Not even the animals in the ocean.

I considered going pescetarian, when I was first looking into vegetarianism. But then I thought, you know, I was wrong about the land animals....Maybe I'm wrong about the ones in the ocean too. After that, I found out about 'bycatch' and it pretty much sealed the deal for me.

What are the reasons you have for continuing to eat fish? You might find we can give you a solution that means you choose not to eat them either :D

Zealotry- Been there, still get those comments from time to time. I was a meat head without even lifting.....:p

It takes time for people to realise you've changed what you're doing. Reassure them that you're still 'you'. That you're just you, doing something a bit different. As for your mum, maybe just tell her you don't want her wasting money on meat you're not going to eat. Tell her you'd rather she spent that money on things she wants.

People 'forcing' meat on you.

You are just going to have to refuse it, if you want them to take you seriously. Maybe they think because you eat fish, that other meats are 'ok'. Maybe they think if they buy you the meat, that you'll just give in and they won't have to deal with the inconvenience of having a pescetarian friend. Maybe they just don't get it yet.

Whatever their reasons, and I would recommend asking them, you need to stand firm if you don't want to eat meat.

In Orthodox Christian tradition, for advice on fasting, generally the advice is if you're at someone's house and they offer you food with meat on a fast day, to just accept it to not offend them. I feel like doing this is OK one time with someone who doesn't know you, but what about people who do? Aren't they now being the offensive one and not you, after already making your wishes known to them?
I obviously don't have the same religious constraints as you, but I don't accept food with someone in it, no matter who's prepared it.
 
#4 ·
I'm so sorry you don't feel supported! The ones who've known you longest may be the last ones to get on board and stop pressuring you to eat meat, simply because they've seen you go through "phases" and they will consider this just another one. The only thing that will change their minds is time and polite refusal. I guarantee that if your mom sees the meat she bought for you go bad two or three times, she'll stop buying it.

I am a Christian as well and I understand the desire to put others first, to not wish to cause offense, to value someone else's feelings above your own. But you can honor others in ways that don't compromise your convictions. Luke 12:23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. Food is such a small part of existence but we make it out to be an area of such division. It doesn't have to be!

Good luck to you!
 
#5 ·
I'm so sorry you don't feel supported! The ones who've known you longest may be the last ones to get on board and stop pressuring you to eat meat, simply because they've seen you go through "phases" and they will consider this just another one. The only thing that will change their minds is time and polite refusal. I guarantee that if your mom sees the meat she bought for you go bad two or three times, she'll stop buying it.

I am a Christian as well and I understand the desire to put others first, to not wish to cause offense, to value someone else's feelings above your own. But you can honor others in ways that don't compromise your convictions. Luke 12:23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. Food is such a small part of existence but we make it out to be an area of such division. It doesn't have to be!

Good luck to you!
It's happened a few times, but not in a row like that. The other issue of my household is I tend to be the one who does most of the cooking. Partially because I'm the best at cooking in the house, know which spices work best with what, etc. But also my mother is disabled and has chronic fatigue and cooking tends to be fairly strenuous for her. So for family occasions, I tend to be the one, say, cooking hotdogs and hamburgers, or using the grill. One of my sisters is ablebodied and can cook, too, but not quite as well as me, but still, it tends to be me who cooks for, say, Fourth of July.

So one question is, regardless of my decision, I may still have to handle/cook meat for my family as long as I'm living with them. (Or not?) Anyone got help in handling that?

I apologise in advance if I don't answer all your points.

First, congrats on getting healthy! It's a struggle for a lot of people and you've done it! Well done. I hope that continues for you.

Second (just to get this out of the way) no, none of us eat fish on these boards. Lacto-ovo vegetarians don't eat animals, any animals. Not even the animals in the ocean.

I considered going pescetarian, when I was first looking into vegetarianism. But then I thought, you know, I was wrong about the land animals....Maybe I'm wrong about the ones in the ocean too. After that, I found out about 'bycatch' and it pretty much sealed the deal for me.

What are the reasons you have for continuing to eat fish? You might find we can give you a solution that means you choose not to eat them either :D

Zealotry- Been there, still get those comments from time to time. I was a meat head without even lifting.....:p

It takes time for people to realise you've changed what you're doing. Reassure them that you're still 'you'. That you're just you, doing something a bit different. As for your mum, maybe just tell her you don't want her wasting money on meat you're not going to eat. Tell her you'd rather she spent that money on things she wants.

People 'forcing' meat on you.

You are just going to have to refuse it, if you want them to take you seriously. Maybe they think because you eat fish, that other meats are 'ok'. Maybe they think if they buy you the meat, that you'll just give in and they won't have to deal with the inconvenience of having a pescetarian friend. Maybe they just don't get it yet.

Whatever their reasons, and I would recommend asking them, you need to stand firm if you don't want to eat meat.

I obviously don't have the same religious constraints as you, but I don't accept food with someone in it, no matter who's prepared it.
For fish, it doesn't seem to give me the same negative effects physically, with acne, oily skin, etc, that land based meat tends to give me, it feels generally "cleaner" than most land based meat for me to eat. It's also more free of hormones and drugs compared to land based meat, and compared to dairy and eggs (though it still has its own problems of heavy metals and other toxins.) Nutritionally, most fish has a lot more vitamins (including B12) and minerals and a generally better nutritional profile in general compared to land based meat. Also, religiously, Orthodoxy tends to consider fish acceptable on fast days, initially this applied to only shellfish, but most priests would say vertebrate fish are better than land based meat. I've not ruled out the possibility of even one day being vegan, but for now it seems appropriate.

But oh well, guess it looks like there's not a simple way, though, and the only thing I can do is say "this is the way things are."
 
#6 ·
Hi celicaxx,

First off I just want to reiterate what other members have said, that this is a forum for vegetarians and vegans or for those diligently working toward this lifestyle as their ultimate goal and within a reasonable time frame. I don't want to discourage you in any way, I think it is great that you are moving toward a plant based diet and trying to improve your life. As a pescetarian, this may not be the right place for you.

I think it is most important to sit down with yourself and clearly understand why you are changing your diet/lifestyle. Do some soul searching and write down all your reasons. When and where did you first learn about plant based eating? Why do you think it is better for your body? What else about this way of eating appeals to you? Is it something you feel you will commit to long term? These are questions to answer for yourself, not something I want you to answer for me. :) I think it helps to do this in order to more effectively explain to others why this is important to you. Sometimes it helps if you can come up with a short affirmative answer without a lot of "explaining". If you aren't even that convinced yourself, or explain it in an apologetic tone, others are not going to take your seriously. I can also see how they might consider this just another "phase" of yours if you switched from yet another lifestyle. Your best weapon is consistency. Be consistent with your answers and with what and how you eat. No one is forcing you to eat meat. If I already told someone I don't eat meat and they bought me some anyway, that becomes their problem not mine, and I would say that I do not eat meat and I will not accept this food, but thank you for thinking of me.

When I first went vegan (I went from omnivore to vegan), I educated myself as much as I could on every angle of it. I read lots of books, magazines, medical studies, watched videos, read about arguments for and against it, looked at environmental, social, political, ethical, health angles. I made sure I knew how and what to eat as a vegan to be healthy. I developed my habits methodically and consistently over time, and only after a month of being vegan did I come out and tell others. I too faced an onslaught of protest and questioning and so on. By then I knew exactly what I was doing and why and I stood my ground. I also shared some awesome vegan dishes with others and showed them some materials to help them understand my decision, especially my husband and close family. I am polite but firm when I mention to others that I am vegan and do not eat meat (or dairy or eggs etc depending on the situation). I don't make exceptions and do not "cheat" because this is not consistent with why I am vegan. At times it has been hard for me because I am by nature an introvert and also somewhat shy and have suffered periods of social anxiety. My lifestyle has actually been great practice for being more assertive and speaking up for myself (and for others, especially nonhuman animals)!

It might even help you to read up on some assertiveness training/practice as far as how to effectively get the message across. If you live at home, it might also help if you do some of the cooking and buying of food and be more independent as far as food goes. Help with cleanup and other chores and/or contribute to the food budget. "Show" them that you are serious and that you will do what it takes to eat this way. I am the breadwinner in my home, however, I live with an omnivore husband. I had to put my foot down right away and make sure he understood clearly what I was willing to do and not do as a vegan. It was tough for him at first and I had to be patient and allow him to slowly come to terms with it all. It was not easy, but we have made it work and it has been almost 4.5 years now.

I hope this helps! As a moderator, I would like to know if you plan to continue to eat fish indefinitely or if this is a stepping stone. Thanks.
 
#8 ·
Being strong means more than being able to lift a lot of heavy weights etc. It means being able to live life the way that you wish and not let anything detour you. That takes strength.
Don't think that fish eating is good, it isn't. Don't steal the life (body) of animals to build your body, it isn't right. One day with time you can learn the right things to say and how to act to people in your surroundings and watch them get sick and die young, if you stick to a truly healthy way of life.
 
#11 ·
You are 24 and still living at home? Much of your problem could stem from this. Move out. Rent a place.
get a vegan room mate. eat in peace. No one needs to support you. You live your own life.
Wow, the judgement...(My mistake if you're not from the U.S.) I find it interesting that only in the U.S. do people seem to look down on others for still living at home. I come from a Portuguese family, and it's very common to live at home for a long time (usually until they get married and have enough money to pay a mortgage).
I am turning 23 in November, and frankly, I have no intentions of moving out until after I marry, and have enough money to put down for a house and pay a mortgage. If people like to rent, good for them. But, I personally don't want to rent a place because I feel like it's just losing money for a place that will never be mine, and that I could have been saving for a down payment on a house. Judge me if you want.
 
#14 ·
This is more just a vent post, I don't know if anyone here can really actually solve my problem. But the people around me don't seem very supportive of my decision regarding this. And this is going to be a big wall of text, so sorry.

Well, I'm a 24 year old male, and an athlete and fairly avid weightlifter as well. I grew up omni all my life, my early childhood was a fairly healthy omni diet mainly of food from my "health nut" dad, and was pretty slim, but then after my parents divorced my mother was stressed out, I lived with her, and I got a diet of all processed food and ballooned up. I eventually got to over 230lbs at 5'9, and had high blood pressure. I started doing a sport at 20, after no sports from around 6th grade on, and dropped my weight down to 180lbs or so along with my blood pressure, though basically through crash dieting.

I started lifting weights, and as you'd know along with the weightlifting culture, comes a lot of meat eating. I got exposed to "paleo" and tried it out, and my weight went up to a much fattier 195lbs and I felt horrible and started getting much more anger and anxiety, along with generally less mental power/function. I eventually developed a UTI infection and long story short, the Western medicine doctors I saw were no help, so I looked up some alternative medicine stuff for it, and got into Chinese medicine theory, and Chinese medicine says it's from excessive "heat" in the body, and basically recommends a more vegan/vegetarian diet to resolve this. So I tried it and am now UTI free.

This also coincided with me meeting a trainer at my gym who was a vegan and who kind of nudged me towards it as well, though he's a raw vegan and I ended more in the McDougall type diet camp, he was a very good guy, and despite being very firm in his beliefs, wasn't like, say... Durianrider or something, in zealousness. He had more the type of body and lifestyle I wanted, so obviously, you learn from people who have what you want.

Religiously, during the time I started with my sport and exercising, I started going to an Orthodox Christian church. Orthodox Christians, for those unaware, are supposed to be vegan for about 1/3 of the year, on Wednesdays and Fridays most weeks, during Lent, Nativity Fast, etc. So the "paleo" diet was actually a big conflict religiously with me. But, coinciding somewhat with meeting my friend above, one Lent I decided to be as strict as possible and I lost even more weight, gained more muscle, felt better, and had better training than ever. So, religiously, I feel a vegetarian diet is more fitting with my religion than meat eating.

I guess one of my biggest problems is what I'd call the St. Paul problem. For those who know, St. Paul in Christian religion was a man who persecuted and even put to death Christians, who eventually became a very zealous one himself. My problems come a lot from my almost zealousness in meat eating. My mom remembers my complaints of not buying enough meat and eggs every week when I tried going "paleo." My friends remember how much I used to love beef jerky as a teenager. Some of my friends hunt and shoot, and somehow or another seemingly once a week or so will make a joke/say something negative about "pussy vegetarians" or say "you better not become one of those vegetarians..." I've told them I try to eat a "mostly vegetarian diet" bringing up most meat's added hormones, and basically only make exceptions for meat eating for friends, family, social outings, etc, but at home tend to eat vegetarian.

But my mom for example, finds it absurd when I say I want to be vegetarian because of me complaining about there not being enough meat in the house years ago. So, I'll say I don't want to eat meat anymore, and then the next day she'll buy more meat that unless I eat it, it will get spoiled and she'll get mad I didn't eat it. And in some ways, I still do like meat as well, so it feels like trying to quit smoking and then having someone buy you packs of Marlboros.

All my friends and family have seen my body change over the years very positively, but then say silly things like "Oh you're just naturally skinny" when I spent half my life obese. Even worse, they'll be like "Oh, come on, have some more pizza, you're so skinny!" after I've already had like 8 slices. Last year, this type of stuff wasn't as big of a deal, but seemingly this year, I've had lots more trouble with this type of thing, and have gained weight at least in part from eating, say, pizza and burgers in "social eating" type of situations. Pretty much all of my family members (except one of my sisters) are obese, along with most of my friends. So I wonder if on some level if even if they think my diet/etc is "true" they wish to drag me down with them?

Ideally, I'd like to eat lacto-ovo vegetarian, along with fish a few times a week (sorry if fish isn't allowed for this board) and eat mostly in McDougall-esque macronutrient framework (high carb low fat.) As this type of diet feels the best for me. In my sport I'd like to compete nationally, or maybe even internationally one day as well, and I feel I need to get more serious about my diet and not give into the temptations of friends and family with meat and general bad food eating if I wish to get to that level.

The problem is putting my foot down, and saying "this is the way things are, if you don't like it then screw off." I've tried being nice, accommodating, flexible, etc, but it seems people just tend to figuratively walk all over me. I've also always been socially somewhat "weird" and have weird/obscure interests not many other people around me have. Maybe one of the biggest problems for me, too, is eating might be one of my last shared bonds with normal people, and I don't wish to give that up, people know I enjoy eating and tend to eat large portions so I'll be invited over to eat by friends when they're making a lot of food.

I've been thinking about this all lately, on Thursday a friend of mine for helping him with his car wanted to take me out to eat. I declined about 4 times in one day, saying I already made a big pot of potato and chickpea pulao at home, but he went anyway to a Pakistani restaurant and ordered me food, with meat. This fourth of July, my mom bought a big amount of meat as well. I no longer feel healthy eating meat, I can feel my skin and hair get greasier, and tend to get more agitated/angry if I eat it.

So, how do I put my foot down to people who don't seem to take my dieting seriously? With my friend for example, I refused 4 times. I really don't wish to offend people, and make another part of me "weird" to people, but do you sometimes have to? In Orthodox Christian tradition, for advice on fasting, generally the advice is if you're at someone's house and they offer you food with meat on a fast day, to just accept it to not offend them. I feel like doing this is OK one time with someone who doesn't know you, but what about people who do? Aren't they now being the offensive one and not you, after already making your wishes known to them?

I don't know if anyone has advice or encouragement for me, but I just needed to vent about this. I feel like I could be doing nutritionally much much better, and be feeling and training better with better nutrition, but the temptation, lack of support, and lack of understanding from other people is holding me back, and other people see it as not mattering as to them being under 200lbs is skinny (because so many people are much over that) but don't understand needing to be say, 170-180, to be competitive and optimal.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for any replies.
Show them how healthy you are on a plant-based diet. If that doesn't work, well. *puts both arms out to be a flying buttress for @celicaxx*
 
#15 ·
I always have a "weird" guy I mean I don´t fit very well in the kind of society I live and ofcourse is a big big problem growing up in such adverse enviroment, I´m 28, and took me some years to find out that I don´t need people supporting me in order to achive my goals, I mean it´s great when you have that but if you don´t so what I don´t have it, and I´m always sorrounded by people who oposed firmly to my lifestyle and beliefs.

Ive been there and sucks but what can you do?
 
#17 ·
celicaxx -

Congrats on your decision!! :wayne:

My abbreviated synopsis is:

-- you only live once, live the life that YOU want to live. If you live your life based on the opinions and whims of others, you'll never be satisfied. And remember, people's opinions change, so that would require you to change your behavior based on their desires.

-- people mock and ridicule things they don't understand. If YOU want to eat this way, stick with it, and over time it will be the new normal for you. I just met a vegan at work, who was working with another vegan a year ago. He became vegan just from working with the other guy. Over time, maybe your friends will see the benefits of your decision.

-- be patient and try to explain your decision, if asked about it. Some people will get it, and some never will. If these people are truly your "friends", they will accept your change and get on with life. If they continue to mock you, maybe you need some new "friends".
 
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