How many animals did each of us save today? - VeggieBoards - A Vegetarian Community
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 07-14-2004, 07:07 PM
Beginner
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
I saw a button with a big "83" on it on Pangea (I think) that states that every vegetarian saves 83 animals a year by not eating meat. I've also seen the same button, but it claims 95 animals a year.



According to PETA (if I remember correctly) 10 billion animals are slaughtered for food every year. With a population of around 275 million, that makes the number of animals per person considerably less: 36-37.



Does anyone have a concrete figure on this? I have started a tag line in my sig similar to McDonald's, where I state the number of animals NOT served since I became vegan. However, it's based on the 95 number, and I would prefer something more accurate to go off of (I'm not really fond of exaggeration).



Anyone know the actual figure?



Thanks.







The Rev
GhostUser is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 07-14-2004, 07:15 PM
Beginner
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
We've done similar threads where we checked the math (the numbers we got were much lower), and I asked the companies how they came up with their numbers. I'll see if I can find one of those threads and it says how they came up with 83.



My personal number would be much lower because I never did eat fish, and shrimp/fish and little tiny animals make up the biggest percentage of those numbers they quote.
kpickell is offline  
#3 Old 07-14-2004, 07:17 PM
Beginner
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
kpickell is offline  
#4 Old 07-14-2004, 07:20 PM
Beginner
 
DuckThatWasn't's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 727
Thanks for the link; that's very interesting.
DuckThatWasn't is offline  
#5 Old 07-14-2004, 07:38 PM
Beginner
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Looking at Jim's numbers, it seems to be far fewer (like 20-25 animals).



At 83 animals, for a population of 293,027,571 (according to the CIA ), makes the animal death toll a whopping 24.32 Billion animals killed annually. If you take into account everything from leather to furniture glue to photographic film, could we be killing that many? That's some 4 times the human population of the Earth!!



That seems excessively high to me.



I sent an email to the USDA to see what figures they might have. (I wonder if I'll get a response? ). Does anyone else have anything to throw into the discussion?







The Rev
GhostUser is offline  
#6 Old 07-14-2004, 07:55 PM
Beginner
 
MercurialMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rev View Post

Looking at Jim's numbers, it seems to be far fewer (like 20-25 animals).



At 83 animals, for a population of 293,027,571 (according to the CIA ), makes the animal death toll a whopping 24.32 Billion animals killed annually. If you take into account everything from leather to furniture glue to photographic film, could we be killing that many? That's some 4 times the human population of the Earth!!



That seems excessively high to me.



When I look at all those numbers the muscles around my heart tighten and I want to cry. Not much sense in all those deaths is there?
MercurialMe is offline  
#7 Old 07-14-2004, 07:58 PM
Beginner
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
I'd be interested in seeing the countertopic explored as well. "How many animals did each of us kill today?" recognizing that a vegan diet is far from guiltless. //
kpickell is offline  
#8 Old 07-14-2004, 08:18 PM
Administrator
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,871
I think part of it depends on what type of "animals" you count. For instance, if you go out on a Saturday night and have a plate full of buffalo wings and then the next day for lunch you have a 10 shrimp dinner, something like that could really add up.

Follow me on Twitter - @_jorts
Michael is offline  
#9 Old 07-15-2004, 05:26 AM
Banned
 
Artichoke47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,903
As I've said before, we aren't "saving" any animals; they weren't supposed to be used and abused by humans in the first place.
Artichoke47 is offline  
#10 Old 07-15-2004, 08:47 AM
Beginner
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
That IS a good point. It's just like shopping. Just because you pay less, doesn't mean you save...it just means you spent less money. If you had forgone shopping, then you would have saved. Of course, none of us can forego eating....



It might be better phrased as, "How many fewer animals died because you went veg?" I like to think I'm doing a good thing here, even if it is actually just doing less bad. Is doing less bad, by definition, good? I think it is.







The Rev
GhostUser is offline  
#11 Old 07-15-2004, 09:39 AM
Beginner
 
Veganati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 30
Keep in mind that "meat consumption" is different from "# animals slaughtered". Not all animals that are slaughtered are sold. Not all dead animals are eaten.



83 doesn't include:



animals killed in the process of fishing

male baby chicks who are terminated

animals who don't make it to the slaughterhouse alive (a huge factor)



By going vegan, you won't immediately "save any lives'. However, the demand for animal products will be reduced, and thus less animals will be made to suffer in future "harvests". There will also be less "collateral damage". I hope that makes sense.



Quote:
The 83 number comes from taking the USDA figure for the amount of meat the ave. American eats each year, and dividing by the USDA figure for the amount meat that industry is able to get from the average animal. One arrives at about 40 mammals and birds (cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, lambs). Then, we took the number of fish killed for food each year, about 17 billion, and divided by the US population (about 290 million). Taking standard deviations, this 83 would apply to more than 95% of the U.S.

population (i.e., 83 is the very bottom of the derivation; some people eat more than 95 animals, some eat less, but 95% of meat eaters consume at

least 83 animals).

Veganati is offline  
#12 Old 07-15-2004, 09:59 AM
Beginner
 
Veganati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 30
One problem with the 83 number is they aren't factoring in the almost 5% of the population who are vegetarian. They should be basing their calculations on non-vegetarians in the U.S., not the population of the U.S. Kind of defeats the point to include the vegetarians..
Veganati is offline  
#13 Old 07-15-2004, 10:00 AM
Beginner
 
GhostUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veganati View Post

Keep in mind that "meat consumption" is different from "# animals slaughtered". Not all animals that are slaughtered are sold. Not all dead animals are eaten.



83 doesn't include:



animals killed in the process of fishing

male baby chicks who are terminated

animals who don't make it to the slaughterhouse alive (a huge factor)



By going vegan, you won't immediately "save any lives'. However, the demand for animal products will be reduced, and thus less animals will be made to suffer in future "harvests". There will also be less "collateral damage". I hope that makes sense.



That's very true. I wonder how many more collateral deaths a person could have attributed to them. Does anyone know what percentage of animals die but never make it to slaughter?







The Rev
GhostUser is offline  
#14 Old 07-15-2004, 10:13 AM
Beginner
 
Veganati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 30
I don't know, but their math is also screwed up..



Taking the meat comsumption of the average American and dividing it by an "average animal" is a bit misleading. They are assuming that Americans eat the same number of cows, chickens, lambs, turkeys, etc.
Veganati is offline  
#15 Old 07-15-2004, 08:52 PM
Beginner
 
vegbunny83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 933
well, the way i figure it is:



the average omnivore eats at least one piece of meat a day, if not more. let's say that the average is one meaty meal a day. so that's 365 meals a year, which is 365 dead animals.



but considering that they may eat leftovers for a few meals, it's less than that. let's say that the average leftovers or packages of meat with multiple servings in them last about 4-5 days (since carcass spoils so quickly).



so...



365 divided by 4.5 = 81



i think between 83-90 is a good estimate, counting in for spoilage, waste, and eating out (which is extremely wasteful).



that's my equasion.



julie

"I remember the days when we talked for hours/And we were young, we thought we had superpowers/We weren't our problems, our age or our paychecks/And we weren't taking anybody's $h*t."
vegbunny83 is offline  
#16 Old 07-15-2004, 09:10 PM
Beginner
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
How is it that you're figuring one piece of meat equals one dead animal?!

They kill a new cow for every single hamburger?
kpickell is offline  
#17 Old 07-15-2004, 09:50 PM
Beginner
 
froggythefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

How is it that you're figuring one piece of meat equals one dead animal?!

They kill a new cow for every single hamburger?



I laugh at the most horrible things.
froggythefrog is offline  
#18 Old 07-15-2004, 09:56 PM
Beginner
 
froggythefrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,260
I think 83 is the vegan number -- ie., not contributing the death of calves, not using animals for clothes and furniture, not buying products tested on animals...



I think the vegetarian number was somewhere between 30-50. This was off one of our threads a few months back.
froggythefrog is offline  
#19 Old 07-15-2004, 09:59 PM
Beginner
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
According to the makers of the 83 T-Shirt, 83 was the number of fish, fowl and meat consumed by the average american. So it'd be ovo-lacto vegetarians. 91 is an updated number coined by PETA using the same animals but newer stats.
kpickell is offline  
#20 Old 07-15-2004, 10:02 PM
Beginner
 
vegbunny83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 933
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

How is it that you're figuring one piece of meat equals one dead animal?!

They kill a new cow for every single hamburger?





that's kind of what i was referring to when i said "packages of meat with multiple servings in them." kind of like one package of chicken or porkchops equals one dead animal.



also, most meals consist of multiple pieces of dead animal, and some omnis eat 3+ meals a day containing dead animal.



i know that cows are bigger, but also for stuff like ground hamburger they put a bunch of different cows into each package. so you really can't tell. it's just approximation.

"I remember the days when we talked for hours/And we were young, we thought we had superpowers/We weren't our problems, our age or our paychecks/And we weren't taking anybody's $h*t."
vegbunny83 is offline  
#21 Old 07-15-2004, 10:03 PM
Beginner
 
kpickell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 16,090
That'd be one awfully big package of porkchops to equal one pig!



I haven't even such a big package of porkchops at Sam's Club and they have pretty big bulk boxes.
kpickell is offline  
#22 Old 07-15-2004, 10:06 PM
Beginner
 
vegbunny83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 933
eh, it's flawed, but what isnt? i'll stick with 83, because whatever group originally came up with that figure obviously had a lot better system than i do. :P

"I remember the days when we talked for hours/And we were young, we thought we had superpowers/We weren't our problems, our age or our paychecks/And we weren't taking anybody's $h*t."
vegbunny83 is offline  
#23 Old 07-16-2004, 10:49 AM
Banned
 
catgirl67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,754
I have no clue, but I know if I saved at least one, it's better than my omni days.
catgirl67 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off