Why is it such a difficult concept for people to grasp? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-11-2012, 06:06 PM
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Rant ahead. Also, hi VB, it's been a while!

 

Vegetarian: Someone who does not eat animals.

 

Now, obviously, we all know that fish and birds are flowers, right? They're just like your average plant.

 

Wait, no? They aren't? They're ANIMALS? Who would've THOUGHT?!!?!

 

Yeah. So, I know it's a rant people on here have made before, but give me a break - I'm annoyed and I need to let off steam in the only community that won't get all butthurt and cry because the big meanie vegetarian pointed out that vegetarians don't eat meat.

 

I don't know why I bother talking to people. I'm starting to think that most people are just stupid beyond any kind of help. And I really don't want to put myself in that mindset or become cynical and bitter again. >.>

 

But...really.

 

There was a debate on vegetarianism on another site I frequent. The OP says she's vegetarian and eats fish. I point out that vegetarians don't eat fish. She gets MAJORLY butthurt at me and yells at me because, apparently, saying vegetarians don't eat fish is the same exact thing as saying her diet is stupid and she's stupid for trying to better the environment and how dare she eat fish!

 

...what?

 

So, after her little rage-fit, I do get annoyed and I just put it bluntly that fish are animals and vegetarians don't eat dead animals. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact that supported by a) the DEFINITION of the word "vegetarian" and b) major vegetarian sources and communities.

 

Then we go in circles for a while, her continually playing the victim and repeating the same thing over and over again and also editing her posts so she can say that she didn't say something she did to make me look like the bad guy, and I just have enough and leave for a few hours. Then I come back and apparently a mod is pissed off at me because the evil vegetarian was bullying the non-vegetarians, because that's *always* how it is - people just assume, once they know someone is vegetarian, that everything that that person says is a personal attack. If I'd lied and say I'm a hunter who eats meat, I guarantee you there wouldn't have been so much of an overreaction.

 

Oh, and this mod agreed with the person I was arguing against that vegetarians eat fish. She also told me I'm not allowed to talk about it anymore or post there ever again. So, no agenda there, obviously.

 

I have to know: what is so difficult about understanding the definition of 'vegetarian'?

 

I mean, it's RIGHT HERE:

 

noun
1.
a person who does not eat or does not believe in eating meat, fish, fowl, or, in some cases, any food derived from animals, as eggs or cheese, but subsists on vegetables, fruits, nuts, grain, etc.

 

How hard is that to grasp?


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#2 Old 12-11-2012, 06:23 PM
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Sorry you had to go through that vanahera.  I think people like to call themselves vegetarian because the diet is a bit fad, but aren't really interested in being consistent.  They like the title, not its definition and so they make up their own.  And when you call  them out it just shows up their duplicity and they get all angry.  People don't like being told that their rosy picture of themselves isn't actually that rosy.


"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#3 Old 12-11-2012, 06:27 PM
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Well that's just dumb. People take things way overboard these days when someone just points something out to them, not even an attack. I have had similar responses when I simply correct people, and the person blows up o.O It's them, not you. They have insecurity issues. A person who really cared about animals and wanted to actively make their lives better and go veg for the right reasons, wouldn't be lashing out at someone reminding them that fish is not a vegetable.

 

By the way, if someone kept deleting stuff they said to make me look like the bad guy, I would have just left. Not worth anyone's time. Just a person taking up oxygen. Don't waste your oxygen on them.


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#4 Old 12-11-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rotoshave View Post

Sorry you had to go through that vanahera.  I think people like to call themselves vegetarian because the diet is a bit fad, but aren't really interested in being consistent.  They like the title, not its definition and so they make up their own.  And when you call  them out it just shows up their duplicity and they get all angry.  People don't like being told that their rosy picture of themselves isn't actually that rosy.


+1


"Why should man expect his prayer for mercy to be heard by What is above him when he shows no mercy to what is under him?" ~Pierre Troubetzkoy
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#5 Old 12-11-2012, 07:26 PM
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An update on the situation: One of my posts was deleted on that discussion a little while ago because I quoted someone saying that Japanese don't consider fish meat and they're vegetarians, and I said that they aren't vegetarians. But because that post was removed, and it shows, people are now talking about me and think that I'm some horrible jerk, and it's really humiliating to me, honestly. I like that community, but because I disagreed with someone and that post got removed, now people look down on me and I've been banned from defending myself or explaining myself.


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#6 Old 12-11-2012, 08:02 PM
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If you want to mention the site, maybe some of us could stop over there and chat a bit.
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#7 Old 12-11-2012, 08:10 PM
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Nah, I don't think that's a good idea. If it were a very general/open forum, I would, but it's a close knit community type deal and I wouldn't want to cause anymore trouble on there.

 

I do have another update on the situation, though: I went ahead and said "screw it" to the mod's attempt to censor me and defended myself, telling nothing but the truth about why my post on there was removed. I'll probably get a warning, but at least I will know I stuck to my principles. Well, I ended up talking with the OP in private messages, and we've actually reached an agreement and have made our peace. I'm still annoyed with the new people coming on who are all "vegetarians eat fish!!!" but oh well, some people just don't want to get it, I guess.


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#8 Old 12-11-2012, 08:12 PM
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Nah, I don't think that's a good idea. If it were a very general/open forum, I would, but it's a close knit community type deal and I wouldn't want to cause anymore trouble on there.

 

I do have another update on the situation, though: I went ahead and said "screw it" to the mod's attempt to censor me and defended myself, telling nothing but the truth about why my post on there was removed. I'll probably get a warning, but at least I will know I stuck to my principles. Well, I ended up talking with the OP in private messages, and we've actually reached an agreement and have made our peace. I'm still annoyed with the new people coming on who are all "vegetarians eat fish!!!" but oh well, some people just don't want to get it, I guess.


Just ignore them.  Theyre being silly.  It's nothing to argue about.  Pick your fights wisely, I say.


"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#9 Old 12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
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^ Yeah. I have to say, thinking it over, while I was in the right and don't think that I did anything to warrant that reaction from the mod, I can see where I was being blunt. Not attacking anyone or flaming, but just blunt and not sugarcoating anything, and since I didn't get a lot of socialization throughout my life and come from a very blunt family, sometimes I do come across differently than I think I am. I still don't think pointing out the facts was in any way wrong, but I can see why the OP reacted the way she did, even if I still disagree with her.


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#10 Old 12-11-2012, 10:06 PM
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^ Yeah. I have to say, thinking it over, while I was in the right and don't think that I did anything to warrant that reaction from the mod, I can see where I was being blunt. Not attacking anyone or flaming, but just blunt and not sugarcoating anything, and since I didn't get a lot of socialization throughout my life and come from a very blunt family, sometimes I do come across differently than I think I am. I still don't think pointing out the facts was in any way wrong, but I can see why the OP reacted the way she did, even if I still disagree with her.


Yeah a blunt reaction kinda gets a sour one back. There are many really good straight forward activists that you might relate with, like Gary Yourofksy. He doesn't sugar coat anything, but he has a lot of passion in what he says, and he has motivated people across the world. You should check out his speech "The Best Speech You Will Ever Hear."


"Why should man expect his prayer for mercy to be heard by What is above him when he shows no mercy to what is under him?" ~Pierre Troubetzkoy
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#11 Old 12-13-2012, 10:50 AM
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I have had a somewhat similar experience from another forum I visit.

 

I'd opened a topic for veg*n recipes and strictly stated in the first post that I'd like it to stay a topic for recipes. There is another topic for (bashing) vegetarians on that forum, anyway.

 

Then one person asked me if I was vegan. I said that I'm vegetarian, which means I don't eat meat or any products derived from animal corpses, but I plan on going vegan soon [I've gone vegan a few days ago; this happened a month or two ago].

 

Then the mod comes and gives me some bull**** for "telling people they eat animal corpses". Like, dafuq? dizzy2.gif

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#12 Old 12-13-2012, 02:34 PM
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I have had a somewhat similar experience from another forum I visit.

 

I'd opened a topic for veg*n recipes and strictly stated in the first post that I'd like it to stay a topic for recipes. There is another topic for (bashing) vegetarians on that forum, anyway.

 

Then one person asked me if I was vegan. I said that I'm vegetarian, which means I don't eat meat or any products derived from animal corpses, but I plan on going vegan soon [I've gone vegan a few days ago; this happened a month or two ago].

 

Then the mod comes and gives me some bull**** for "telling people they eat animal corpses". Like, dafuq? dizzy2.gif


LOL sorry, you can't tell it like it is. Reminds me of the souther slave owners who wanted abolitionists to shut up...hmmmmm....cycles do seem to repeat themselves.


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#13 Old 12-14-2012, 11:19 AM
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Yeah, she also added something about "I don't go around reminding you of the fact that you eat **** from the ground through vegetables".

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#14 Old 12-14-2012, 12:12 PM
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Then the mod comes and gives me some bull**** for "telling people they eat animal corpses". Like, dafuq? dizzy2.gif

If one is offended by the notion that they eat dead animals, perhaps one should stop eating dead animals. I'll often use "I don't eat the flesh of animals" not to be dramatic, as many people claim, but because saying "I don't eat meat", means that I can eat fish, organs, insects, and possibly birds, because they do not fit your person category of "meat".

 

As for the original topic, I tend to stay away from those arguments. I've never cared to argue over whether or not eating fish means you can't be a vegetarian. That is more arguing over English. I'd much rather argue over if eating fish is okay. So if I see a pescetarian claiming to be a vegetarian, I leave them be. And get one more jab at our flexitarian cousins:

 

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#15 Old 12-14-2012, 02:09 PM
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Yeah, she also added something about "I don't go around reminding you of the fact that you eat **** from the ground through vegetables".


I'd rather wash off the **** on the vegetables than eat tortured, dragged, stunned, and soul-destroyed animals.


"Why should man expect his prayer for mercy to be heard by What is above him when he shows no mercy to what is under him?" ~Pierre Troubetzkoy
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#16 Old 12-16-2012, 11:34 AM
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Yeah, she also added something about "I don't go around reminding you of the fact that you eat **** from the ground through vegetables".

Reminds me of what my best friend kept saying when I first became a vegetarian. She basically used Mufasa from The Lion King's little "Circle of Life" monologue in order to tell me that eating just plants is pointless. The tidbit she'd use was "when we die, our bodies become one with the grass and the antelope eat the grass". Basically, she was trying to tell me that I'm gonna be eating animals anywaywall.gif. Sure she was being antagonizing but it annoyed the living hell out of me and now I can't watch The Lion King the same way again (this was almost four years ago). Just a brief mention of the title makes me want to punch someone!

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#17 Old 12-16-2012, 09:24 PM
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Reminds me of what my best friend kept saying when I first became a vegetarian. She basically used Mufasa from The Lion King's little "Circle of Life" monologue in order to tell me that eating just plants is pointless. The tidbit she'd use was "when we die, our bodies become one with the grass and the antelope eat the grass". Basically, she was trying to tell me that I'm gonna be eating animals anywaywall.gif. Sure she was being antagonizing but it annoyed the living hell out of me and now I can't watch The Lion King the same way again (this was almost four years ago). Just a brief mention of the title makes me want to punch someone!

 


In the Lion King, doesn't Simba eat bugs instead of meat? He goes against the established "circle of life" and chooses not to eat Timon and Pumba even though they are naturally his prey. I know it's not vegetarianism, but he is a lion after all, simply by challenging his 'natural order' of things he's making a statement. (You so just gave me the best idea for a blog post! Thanks!)

As for people who eat fish and tell me they're a vegetarian- urgh.

I've bitten my tongue on more than one occasion....But, if ever I'm faced with it and can't help myself, I try to politely point out the differences and the need for using the correct terms, for everyone's sake (even omnivores) so that they know what is and isn't appropriate to serve someone. That way, having a vegetarian dinner guest isn't as anxiety inspiring because people will know.

 

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#18 Old 12-16-2012, 09:55 PM
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Reminds me of what my best friend kept saying when I first became a vegetarian. She basically used Mufasa from The Lion King's little "Circle of Life" monologue in order to tell me that eating just plants is pointless. The tidbit she'd use was "when we die, our bodies become one with the grass and the antelope eat the grass". Basically, she was trying to tell me that I'm gonna be eating animals anywaywall.gif. Sure she was being antagonizing but it annoyed the living hell out of me and now I can't watch The Lion King the same way again (this was almost four years ago). Just a brief mention of the title makes me want to punch someone!

 

Actually, considering modern funerary practices, it's very unlikely we'll become "one with the grass" or be very edible. Bodies get pumped full of preservatives in order to stay fresh for viewing, we get dumped in a concrete lined grave, in a rather solid treated wood coffin, and by the time that anything gets to us, we'll hardly be worth any nutritional value.


I always wonder about people who say they "love" animals, but continue to eat meat. If that's your idea of love, I question what sort of twisted world view you must have.

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#19 Old 12-17-2012, 12:49 PM
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Actually, considering modern funerary practices, it's very unlikely we'll become "one with the grass" or be very edible. Bodies get pumped full of preservatives in order to stay fresh for viewing, we get dumped in a concrete lined grave, in a rather solid treated wood coffin, and by the time that anything gets to us, we'll hardly be worth any nutritional value.

Mufasa is a lion, I'm pretty sure lions and other animals don't have any funerary practices (if they do, they're certainly not the same as that of humans). They just lie there on the ground and rot. That was my friend's point. Lion dies, rots in the grass, antelope eats grass, therefore antelopes eat lions. A stupid point, but like I said she was being antagonistic.

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#20 Old 12-17-2012, 08:02 PM
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Mufasa is a lion, I'm pretty sure lions and other animals don't have any funerary practices (if they do, they're certainly not the same as that of humans). They just lie there on the ground and rot. That was my friend's point. Lion dies, rots in the grass, antelope eats grass, therefore antelopes eat lions. A stupid point, but like I said she was being antagonistic.

 

What, then, does what a lion do, have anything to do with what humans do? My point is that being a vegetarian isn't pointless, for a human, we're already removed from the so-called "Circle of Life".

 

As for eating animals, via dirt, well, if she REALLY wants to get esoteric, we're all eating star dust.

 

And if you want to snark, and not bring up our funerary traditions, tell her there's no reason not to be a cannibal then, because humans rot in the earth too and you'll eventually end up eating human bits anyway.


I always wonder about people who say they "love" animals, but continue to eat meat. If that's your idea of love, I question what sort of twisted world view you must have.

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#21 Old 12-17-2012, 08:23 PM
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Now, obviously, we all know that fish and birds are flowers, right? They're just like your average plant.

 

Wait, no? They aren't? They're ANIMALS? Who would've THOUGHT?!!?!

 

I about rolled backward out of my chair laughing after reading that. Big ups for the sarcasm. I actually have people argue with me fairly often about this and their argument literally is "fish aren't made of meat." So I don't know what else to tell you. LOL People are always going to make excuses for the way they want to live rather than just admitting that they are too weak to truly live in congruity with their values or that they just want to be a part of some social club. I have veg*ns argue with me all the time about whether or not gelatin is vegan or not. They're arguing with themselves because the fact of the matter won't change no matter how much they may want it to.

For the record, I am similar to you. I get all hyped up when people make up their own definitions to words. It's difficult for me because I eat honey so there for refer to myself as a vegetarian. But whenever I say that to someone they always assume I eat milk and cheese and eggs. LOL Then I have to explain.


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#22 Old 12-18-2012, 11:06 AM
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What, then, does what a lion do, have anything to do with what humans do? My point is that being a vegetarian isn't pointless, for a human, we're already removed from the so-called "Circle of Life".

 

As for eating animals, via dirt, well, if she REALLY wants to get esoteric, we're all eating star dust.

 

And if you want to snark, and not bring up our funerary traditions, tell her there's no reason not to be a cannibal then, because humans rot in the earth too and you'll eventually end up eating human bits anyway.

Hm...I like it! laugh.gif

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