Human Overpopulation

[Kiz]

And for the record, I am all for spaying and neutering. It makes for a healthier, happier animal. And cuts back on unwanted animals.

You do know your two posts are mutually exclusive. That's all I want to do with human animals, after all.

[cch_2004]

No, heartless because they want to limit other people's reproductive choices.

I don't want to limit people who want to have children and can care for them. I just think there are many people who don't want more children or children at all,that have accidents, and then decide abortion or putting their child up for adoption is the best choice. In those cases I think those people would be better off getting a vasectomy or tubes tied or something that makes it so they can't have children if they don't want any.

[Kibbleforlola]

Yes, I realize that. But people are their own moral actors. You would be denying people the right to do what they choose with their own body/family/life. We have a right and responsibility to companion animals to do what /we/ think is best for them, including spaying and neutering. We do not have the responsibility or right to make those decisions for other humans.

[Kiz]

We're denying the right of cats to choose what to do with their own body/family/life, too. I agree that we do have the right and responsibility to make these decisions for our companion animals, they do not have the sort of intelligence or knowledge that would enable them to realise and understand the feline (or canine) overpopulation problem and, thus, we make that decision for them. It is evident that many human animals also do not possess the sort of intelligence or knowledge of the hominid overpopulation so, being the compassionate guardians of the earth that we are, should we not also make that decision for them, since they are obviously incapable of doing so?

[Kibbleforlola]

I don't want to limit people who want to have children and can care for them. I just think there are many people who don't want more children or children at all,that have accidents, and then decide abortion or putting their child up for adoption is the best choice. In those cases I think those people would be better off getting a vasectomy or tubes tied or something that makes it so they can't have children if they don't want any.

But what about people who decide still want to have children later? I don't see a difference morally between abortion/birth control/permanent birth control (tube tying, ect.). What about people who can't get sterilized? Most doctors won't tie a woman's tubes until she has had kids and is older than 30ish. It's not that easy.

[Kiz]

But what about people who decide still want to have children later? .

Well then, they won't be adding more humans to the burden the earth already carries, will they? Is that not a good thing or do you believe that we are an endangered species and need some breeding up, along with pandas and Tasmanian tigers?

[Kibbleforlola]

Well then, they won't be adding more humans to the burden the earth already carries, will they? Is that not a good thing or do you believe that we are an endangered species and need some breeding up, along with pandas and Tasmanian tigers?

You are not understanding. It is not our choice whether or not somebody has kids. It is the person or people having the kids. You cannot force them to not breed any more than you can force them to go vegetarian or vegan. Everyone must come to their own decisions in life. And if that includes having more kids, so be it.

[Kiz]

I am in favour of human TNR (trap/neuter/release). No, I didn't leave the "e" off "humane", I said and meant "human".

Cats are overpopulated in many places and this not only causes stress to the cats, it is devastating the environment. The only humane thing to do, since cats do not possess the intelligence to understand the problem and curtail their own breeding, is to do this for them in programs such as TNR. It has become evident to me that many humans also do not possess the intelligence to understand the overpopulation of hominids that is causing such devastation to our planet. Thus, the only humane thing to do is institute human TNR.

The VHEM (Voluntary Human Extinction Movement) does not go far enough, simply because most humans are not smart enough to understand the ramifications of their rampant and out of control breeding. Thus I am proposing a course of human TNR. Perhaps not going so far as to drive us to extinction, in that area I think the VHEM goes a little too far, but surely, a decent reduction in human numbers would be a good thing for the planet as a whole, no? And human TNR sure beats culling!

[Kibbleforlola]

I think you just need a hug.

[Kiz]

No one should breed, "competent" or not.

Debate thread now here about human TNR as opposed to companion animals, which is what this forum is for.

http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...07#post2515707