@Zoebird (diaperless baby?)

[Fritemare]

Hey, I was wondering what you meant from another thread about your child not wearing diapers. How old were they when you started letting them go diaperless? Are there some sort of benefits to this? (Aside from the money saved) More info please? :)

[*AHIMSA*]

http://www.diaperfreebaby.org/

Practicing Elimination Communication
Elimination Communication, Infant Potty Training, Natural Infant Hygiene, Potty Whispering...whatever you choose to call it, it all refers to the modern adaption of an ancient method of childcare. Traditionally this method was seen and practiced by the whole community, learned naturally over a lifetime. This aspect has largely been lost, yet you can rediscover it on the Practicing EC pages. Think of these as the wisdom of your grandmother, the support of your aunt, the encouragement of your best friend. Celebrate undertaking a journey where caregivers and babies learn and discover together.

[NZVeggie]

Sounds kinda interesting... is this why you are doing it zoebird?

[Fritemare]

Wow that site had a lot of good info on it, thanks Ahimsa. I wish I had read this site with Ares.

Right now he is starting to show an interest in the potty at 21 months, and we've been encouraging him to participate in his diaper changes. I was planning on putting cloth undies on him during the day with a cloth diaper infront so we can start working on using the potty.

When I'm at home during the day with him, the bathroom is usually left wide open so he understands what the toilet is for because he has seen it used.

I'll probably use this method with Freya and incorporate as much of it as I can with Ares at his age.

[nookle]

Ok - to be fair, I haven't done any in depth reading about this, but my opinion - It's bull. Little little babies don't even have the physical ability to hold their pee, do they? I can't imagine this being of any benefit to either the parent or the child; to the contrary, I see it being a very negative thing for both. Not only would I never consider it, I think I would actively discourage it.

Just my thoughts. :D

[Irizary]

I think it's o.k. But I won't be sitting on the furniture.

[hoodedclawjen]

Ok - to be fair, I haven't done any in depth reading about this, but my opinion - It's bull. Little little babies don't even have the physical ability to hold their pee, do they? I can't imagine this being of any benefit to either the parent or the child; to the contrary, I see it being a very negative thing for both. Not only would I never consider it, I think I would actively discourage it.

Just my thoughts. :D

i don't know a whole bunch about this, but i would assume that babies muscle control develops over time, be it for bladders and bowels or eyes and arms. it seems kinda logical to try and work with this development, instead of trying to get them to basically ignore it, and then trying to get them to unlearn the concept of 'going' in their pants.

one thing that sticks in my head is that when we were very little people (maybe 2.5 and 5 years old), my mum used to often get me and my baby bro up really early, then while we were still asleep, bundle us up, and put us in the truck to go to work with my dad for the day. she developed a strategy to make us pee in the morning while we were still pretty much asleep, on queue, before she dressed us- cos we couldn't stop at toilets on the way, there weren't any, and who wants to pee on the side of the road at 4am in the middle of winter.

she'd put each of us on the toilet (while the other was out of earshot) and say "one, two, three, wee wee wee wee WEE!" and we would automatically just go, cos she used the same key phrase at toilet time during the day. it worked amazingly effectively.

this seems pretty similar to the sound trigger technique used in natural infant hygeine. i don't see why it couldn't start to work the same way on even smaller people, and make potty training much easier.

[Jennifer N]

OMG, I can't find the link on YouTube, but does anyone remember the Family Guy episode, a flashback of the Lindbergh baby getting potty trained as an infant. He ends up accidentally flushed down the toilet, so the mom runs to write the false ransom note while Charles "takes care" of Amelia Earhart, who saw what really happened. Funny.

[NZVeggie]

Ok - to be fair, I haven't done any in depth reading about this, but my opinion - It's bull. Little little babies don't even have the physical ability to hold their pee, do they? I can't imagine this being of any benefit to either the parent or the child; to the contrary, I see it being a very negative thing for both. Not only would I never consider it, I think I would actively discourage it.

Just my thoughts. :D

It is true that children don't have the ability to control their muscles and therefore cannot control when/where they 'let go'.

However I also agree with hoodedclawjen... why not get the idea into their heads, then its not such a foreign concept when they do suddenly learn to control their muscles.

[rabid_child]

I believe it's more the parent learning the child's cues that s/he is about to go than the child actually potty training.

[Fritemare]

Maybe people should actually read the link...

[hoodedclawjen]

Maybe people should actually read the link...

it'd be good, but i think you're asking too much. i've come to believe that many people don't even bother reading anyone elses post past the OP's, a lot of the time. :D

[wutaweirdo]

I believe it's more the parent learning the child's cues that s/he is about to go than the child actually potty training.

+1 I'm sure. It's not just the child being raised learning that it's NOT okay to "go" whenever they feel like it, but much of it is learning the child's cues and schedule. I can imagine that at such a young age ~5/6 months, baby sign language might come in handy too. :)

[Jinga]

This type of thing was common when I visited China years ago. Babies would wear crotchless pants and their parents would sit them over a newspaper or potty and let them go. After looking at the website, I have to say it reminds me a lot of housebreaking my once puppies. Everytime they sleep, play, eat, or show other tell-tale behaviors they obviously have to go to the bathroom. A very young puppy (or child) can't technically be potty trained, but the adult in charge can be trained to read and respond to potty signals. I doubt I'll be trying this with my baby, but it's interesting all the same.

[Dana in IN]

I remember being at a baby shower and one of the girls there claimed her 1 year old was potty trained. All the older aunts and grandmothers said "the baby isn't trained, the parents are." I have to say I agree and while it may work for some people, I do not have the patience for this. I had no problem changing diapers and have no desire to deal with the accidents that would have to happen often with this technique. (And I did follow the link and read the information!)

[coley]

I do a slight version of this with my baby girl who is only just six months old. We noticed the cues for when she was about to soil her nappy and we would always take it off before hand. In the past four months we have had only 2 dirty nappies as a result of us watching for her cues. Now she knows to get a little bit grumpy just before hand so we can take off her nappy. It's very easy to just wash wet nappies as opposed to dirty ones.

We haven't attempted it with wee yet, but as she can just sit up we are going to get a potty and give it a go. I have heard of children as young as a year being completely toilet trained already. I have also heard from a chinese friend that it is quite common for their children to be trained like this.

[coley]

Oh, and I agree that you have to be fairly enthusiastic as a parent for this to work.

[rabid_child]

This type of thing was common when I visited China years ago. Babies would wear crotchless pants and their parents would sit them over a newspaper or potty and let them go. After looking at the website, I have to say it reminds me a lot of housebreaking my once puppies. Everytime they sleep, play, eat, or show other tell-tale behaviors they obviously have to go to the bathroom. A very young puppy (or child) can't technically be potty trained, but the adult in charge can be trained to read and respond to potty signals. I doubt I'll be trying this with my baby, but it's interesting all the same.

A friend of mine adopted a baby from China 5 or so years ago, and she didn't realize the baby was "potty trained" until she's already "retrained" her to go in a diaper, then she was kicking herself afterwards saying it took a few years before she was potty trained again. (Just so no one gets the wrong idea, she found the situation funny.)

[Fritemare]

A friend of mine adopted a baby from China 5 or so years ago, and she didn't realize the baby was "potty trained" until she's already "retrained" her to go in a diaper, then she was kicking herself afterwards saying it took a few years before she was potty trained again. (Just so no one gets the wrong idea, she found the situation funny.)

That is pretty funny lol

[yoginisarah]

I have several friends who do this. I would have done it with my first had I known about it back then. Now that I have 2 little ones, I just am not perceptive enough to stay on top of it!
But my friend's 13 month old daughter is potty trained from doing this. She still has some accidents but will just get up and go on the potty when he has to go usually! So, it does help with them being potty trained earlier!

[Pinkmama]

We did EC with Leni...and its brilliant! Cuts down the washing hugely...she was out of nappies even while out from 9mths...she used sign language!

Clarexxx

[dirtytreehugger]

I think EC is great but we stick to cloth diapers.

[zoebird]

sorry that i haven't responded before 3 pages are already up, but my friend had her baby last friday and had a series of breastfeeding challenges so i was pumping to support their baby until the milk came in, helping with latch and cues, and basically setting up house over there for them. the week went by very quickly. :)

as for being a diaper-free baby. . .the web site that ahimsa gave is a great one. there are also a couple of great books such as Diaper Free Baby and one other whose title i can't remember. But, the book explains how it is practiced in traditional communities across the globe and how to adapt it to modernity. :)

first and foremost, it is important to do this because you *enjoy* it. we really love ECing with hawk. everyone who does it with us also enjoys it--his grandparents, our babysitters, and other friends and family members. the whole process needs to be stress free and fun for you so that you can learn the cues and have fun with your baby.

second, everyone ECs differently based on their circumstances. a friend of mine, her baby is diaper free. our baby wears diapers (cloth at home, disposable when out--7th generation makes the best disposables that are biodegradable), and we have some diaper free times while at home too. but, on average, we use only 3 diapers per day and there are days where we use the same diaper for 24 hrs. i change a diaper after 24 hrs just like i would change my underwear, even if it hasn't been "used." other people practice it "part time" such as only when home or when out or only during the day and not at night. currently, we are not practicing it overnight, as we need more sleep, but we've also noticed that instead of going 3 times per night, he now only goes once, and we wake up for what used to be the "third" time at night (5:15 am). so, he gets pottied for the late night one and the early morning, which means he only goes once at night in a diaper. i just couldn't wake myself up fast enough to potty him at night, and it was hard on us all. so, we do the midnight and early am, and we dont' worry so much about the 3 am potty time. LOL

third, there are a lot of misconceptions about what EC is and whether or not it is possible. it is possible, as we have been practicing it since hawk was about a week old. at first, it is mostly about learning the baby's cues--when he normally goes, what his body language is when he needs to go, and then how much time you have between when the signal is given and when he'll actually go. as he's gotten older, he gives the signal earlier and can also hold his stuff longer. he does have some control of his bowels--it's largely a misconception that children do not.

now, to the direct questions on page one, before moving on to page 2 and 3:

How old were they when you started letting them go diaperless?

we started the EC process when he was about two weeks old. we do sometimes have times when he is completely diaper free, but that is only when we are able to be really attentive to his signals.

for infants, a lot of people do use diapers while they are learning the process and cues of their babies. most people set the baby diaper free when s/he is mobile and able to get to the little potties (such as the ones you can get at ikea right now), that you can set around the room/house, and while at home.

Are there some sort of benefits to this?

the benefits to this are numerous.

the benefit that i value most is another layer of communication between us that only deepens our relationship. those who also help us potty him (friends, family, sitters) find that they feel closer to him by serving him in this way. most people do not like to change diapers, but a lot of people LOVE to potty him. it's a fun experience for them, particularly since i exclusively breast feed, so it's one way to be intimate and communicate with him at a deep, physical level which only builds emotional intimacy.

(fwiw, this is not a criticism of diapering at all. i think that people need to find the method of care that works for them. that is why ECing *must* be a joy, IMO. if it is a hassle, if one thinks it's bull, and all of that, then ECing is not for them, and they can have just as joyous a relationship with their babe as an ECer. I'm just describing how *I* feel about the process and what my family and friends have also expressed.)

beyond this sense of closeness that we have developed, and beyond the simple fun of doing it, there are some physical benefits that arise.

first, diaper free/ECed babies are rarely in dirty or wet dipes, which means that the delicate skin is less likely to be harmed and rashes are also far less common among ECed/diaper-free babies.

second, the whole thing is a lot cleaner. i have missed the occasional poop in his diaper. one happened once while i was driving and i wasn't able to pull over fast enough to potty him (typically i park, draw out a bucket that i carry, and hold him over it. i close the bucket and then wash it out once home or to whatever location i'm going to, putting the waste in the toilet). in this instance, the poop was everywhere. the diaper was full, it was all over his clothing, up his back, and so on. i'm sure you've experienced similar!

anyway, when i got home, i had to bathe him, change the clothes, set everything to soak, and so on. it was a lot of work.

when i 'catch' the poop--either in the bucket or sink or toilet--i can use just a bit of toilet paper and wipe his bum in a normal way, and there's no mess in the diaper, on his clothes, or even beyond the area around his anus.

so, it really cuts down on the mess that we sometimes experience with babies in their diapers!

another benefit that many ECers experience is that babies are "potty trained" by the time they are 18 months to 2 yrs old--when most babies start learning to use the potty. we call them "graduates" because instead of signalling to us for help, they simply go on their own consistently. like any small child, there are misses and accidents, but for the most part, they go on their own.

one of my firends has 4 daughters, one born two weeks before hawk. three were/are ECed. the eldest was traditionally diapered. she learned to use the potty by age 3.5, but her younger sisters (the infant is still helped of course) were all 'grads' by 14 months. they would simply use the little potties (like those from ikea), and then tell their mother that they went. this is the common age for babies in other countries where EC is common for them to 'graduate.'

because we have such complex bathroom systems here (toilets are seats, larger sized, etc), it takes kids a bit longer to actually get on the large toilets. . .but it's easy for them to use small potties or to squat to go (which is the traditional way that humans go). so, they often 'graduate' to this stage around 1 yr, and can manage larger toilets (with seat inserts for their size) around age two.

and of course, the money saved is really unbelieveable. we have cloth diapers with a simple diaper cover (made by The EC Store--which i think is theecstore.com) and the disposables. those disposables are expensive but a bag of 44 diapers tends to last us well over a month. so, that's $15/mo in disposables (if that), and then we only wash about 1-2 cloth diapers per day which we soak and general toss in with our regular laundary (whites) now.

it's actually a lot of fun, very cost effective, emotionally rewarding and physically very clean and effective.

hawk now goes when i offer and signal (or at least tries to go, you can tell that he tries to pee and poop when offered). and he signals to us now in two ways--one, in his normal visceral ways such as all babies do, and also by going "puuhhhh" which is his version of the signal sound that i make.

and he's 16 weeks old now. he really has the hang of it. sometimes, we miss because we're distracted. you know, like when writing posts about EC! LOL

[KatherineLynn]

Zoebird that is amazing. That's definitely something I would consider doing with my future babies!!
It sounds like a wonderful experience!!

[ReaganNC]

Thanks for the information. I filed that in my "baby" folder for future reference.