Gotta ask, christmas/religion/stuff

[JLRodgers]

Now I'm not the religious type (as in the standard religions are), but at this time of year I start to wonder something... more likely start to get upset at people really.....

Since "Christmas" or the "December holidays" are supposed to be about "religion"......


When did Jesus become wrapping paper and golden idols and stuff????
I swore the bible said not to worship other gods.... yet at this time of year, people worship money (savings) and objects.... the more objects the better.... and if people happen to get killed or injured in the pursuit of the gods (err. goods) so be it.... When exactly did this happen? When exactly did "love" mean you "buy people things", and when did Jesus become objects (or a bunny rabbit for that matter), and why is the mascot for Christmas, not Jesus, but Santa (who is just one switch away from Satan)?




* in a sense (very generally), you're not even buying other people things.... you're buying things for them, they're buying things for you -- both are buying things the other wants -- so it's like you're just buying things you want in large groups.

[Kiz]

I blame the Three Wise Men. They started it all with the whole "gold, frankincense and myrrh" thing.

[das_nut]

Now I'm not the religious type (as in the standard religions are), but at this time of year I start to wonder something... more likely start to get upset at people really.....

Since "Christmas" or the "December holidays" are supposed to be about "religion"......


When did Jesus become wrapping paper and golden idols and stuff????

As Christianity spread, it coopted the traditional religious festivals.

That included a winter celibration for the Romans.

[Paulo Pereira]

...and when did Jesus become objects (or a bunny rabbit for that matter)


The rabbit was a pagan symbol of fertility, which is what Easter used to be about before the Xians took it over. So the bunny predates Christ as a symbol of Easter.

[das_nut]

No, the bunny is because of St. Peter, who was really a rabbit. :p

[JLRodgers]

The rabbit was a pagan symbol of fertility, which is what Easter used to be about before the Xians took it over. So the bunny predates Christ as a symbol of Easter.

Well that would explain that.... although I'm surprised they didn't just drop the whole bunny thing because of it.

[hoodedclawjen]

No, the bunny is because of St. Peter, who was really a rabbit. :p

:lol:

[Paulo Pereira]

No, the bunny is because of St. Peter, who was really a rabbit. :p

:lol:


Well that would explain that.... although I'm surprised they didn't just drop the whole bunny thing because of it.

Well, Xmas still (allegedly, in some instances) retains quite a few aspects of pagan holidays. The idea of Santa driving a sleigh is pagan (the sleigh-driving figure from which this is derived is said to be either Odin or Thor), as is the Xmas tree, hanging of wreaths and mistletoe, burning of the Yule log, etc.

[hoodedclawjen]

Well that would explain that.... although I'm surprised they didn't just drop the whole bunny thing because of it.

i think when you're manipulating the masses into a new religion, its maybe a better policy to keep as much of their old stuff as you can, but spin it into this bigger, better, improved thing, than it is to try and get them to stop doing what they were already doing and scrap all their old symbols in exchange for something that probably seems a bit crap compared to what they were already upto.

....i mean, the poor pagan sods had to give up dancing naked in the woods, getting hammered on home made cider and indulging in licentious revelry, burning criminals in bloody great big wicker men, etc etc etc... the least the invading christians could do was let them keep their chocolate eggs, weird old men with big sacks coming down the chimney, sticking trees in the living room, cute fluffy rabbit related stuff, etc.

[JLRodgers]

...i mean, the poor pagan sods had to give up dancing naked in the woods, getting hammered on home made cider

Well now that sounds like a real holiday there! :D

[SuicideBlonde]

and why is the mascot for Christmas, not Jesus, but Santa (who is just one switch away from Satan)?

Wow! I never noticed!

Well I feel bad about the gift thing mostly because i feel like a hypocrite. I don't believe in what my family believes in but I indulge them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Santa

[hoodedclawjen]

maybe santa was one of the three wise men- he looks like he could be- perhaps its the beard that does it.

[otomik]

maybe santa was one of the three wise men- he looks like he could be- perhaps its the beard that does it.actually it was Saint Nicolas of Myra, he had a cameo in that movie Millions.

actually I don't know why it bothers people so much. why can't we enjoy the confluence of traditions. they're mostly unknown, people don't bicker about the pagan days of the week. "Thor's day"

[Savannah]

I agree with you Snarkmeister...I just go with the flow and enjoy the traditions that are enjoyable and ignore the stuff that is crass and don't worry too much about the holidays having fairytales as their basis. nobody likes a Grinch or a Mr. Potter on Christmas unless they are in a movie that they can boo anyway :)

[troub]

When did Jesus become wrapping paper and golden idols and stuff????


Check out http://www.adventconspiracy.org/

And yeah, the holiday is so much about consumerism, we place our children on the lap of Mammon himself, breeding them to covet, breeding them to want want want at such a young age.

[codemonkey]

I'm christian but I really don't look at Christmas as a religious holiday at all. It's a cultural holiday centered on gift giving (including charity). If you know anything about history, you'll know that Christmas has never really been about Jesus anyway. Jesus was born in the springtime. If you're really a christian, you're supposed to be remembering Jesus all year, not just on Christmas and Easter.

[JLRodgers]

Jesus was born in the springtime. If you're really a christian, you're supposed to be remembering Jesus all year, not just on Christmas and Easter.

What's sad is, most of the people I know (other than non-christians) believe Jesus was born on December 25th... Back many years ago, it was even taught as such.

[Digger]

...weird old men with big sacks...
Man, if I had a nickel for every one of those who showed up at my door...

[hoodedclawjen]

Man, if I had a nickel for every one of those who showed up at my door...

yeah... at the door is one thing... down the chimney... then you really wanna be afraid! :lol:

[Doktormartini]

Ok! Read Jeremiah 10, God condemns heathen practices such as decorating trees. Christmas is a pagan holiday. First off, Jesus was not born on December 25th (this day was picked because many pagans at the time in the Roman Empire celebrated Yule this day and the Christians picked many of their practices in order to more easily get them to convert), and second off, nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say to celebrate his birth. Almost all the things done at Christmas (decorating trees, mistletoe, giving gifts...etc) are pagan in origin and the Bible many times condemns pagan practices :)

That said I don't really care either way!

Oops I see this was covered already!

[rainforests1]

Well, Xmas still (allegedly, in some instances) retains quite a few aspects of pagan holidays. The idea of Santa driving a sleigh is pagan (the sleigh-driving figure from which this is derived is said to be either Odin or Thor), as is the Xmas tree, hanging of wreaths and mistletoe, burning of the Yule log, etc.
My brother says the same thing. You'd think any religion would find their own traditions rather than taking another from another one.

To answer the question, I've only heard of a few people who were killed or trampled on when they're trying to shop so it is rare. Basically every holiday these days is meant to help businesses in some way. We're a materialistic society so there's really not much of an explanation.

[Paulo Pereira]

What's sad is, most of the people I know (other than non-christians) believe Jesus was born on December 25th... Back many years ago, it was even taught as such.

Nobody really knows when Jesus was born, if he was even born at all. There is a severe lack of evidence that he ever existed. All we have are the Gospels, and those contains gaps, contradictions and falsehoods.

[otomik]

I agree with you Snarkmeister...I just go with the flow and enjoy the traditions that are enjoyable and ignore the stuff that is crass and don't worry too much about the holidays having fairytales as their basis. nobody likes a Grinch or a Mr. Potter on Christmas unless they are in a movie that they can boo anyway :)

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