Funds sliced, teacher sells ads on tests

[Michael]

Might want to read the whole article. Changed my mind a bit. Thought it would be interesting to discuss.


Kevin Change said it was strange the first time he saw an advertisement across the bottom of his calculus test. But now he and his classmates look for them.

“It's really interesting to see what it is each time,” said Change, 16, a junior at Rancho Bernardo High School.

Some are pithy one-liners, hawking the names of local businesses: “Brace Yourself for a Great Semester! Braces by Henry, Stephen P. Henry D.M.D.”


Farber's customers pay $10 for an ad on a quiz, $20 to be on a chapter test and $30 for a spot on a semester final. Some of the quotes, either personal ones or by famous people, are paid for by parents.

Full story...

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/nov/22/1mc22rbteach114024-funds-sliced-teacher-sells-ads-/?zIndex=15188

[*AHIMSA*]

I wonder how long it will be until a student or parent tries to put an "ad" up with a formula or other tip for the exam.

[hoodedclawjen]

he couldn't just print the test once on acetate, and put it on an OHP, and have the kids write their numbered answers on plain paper, then? would be cheaper.

i don't like that the kids (or one at least) look for ads. how distracting is that from actually answering the questions?

[Kiz]

Wow, that's shameful.

[codemonkey]

My son went to RB High his freshmen year and half of his sophomore year.

Interesting

[LetoTheTyrant]

I think it's a good idea and if it's only on hte first page of the test, it's not gonna be that distracting, as I'm sure there are only a limited number of questions on the first page.

We advertise on everything else, I say, if this is a way to get a better education system without raising the bill for everyone, go for it.

[codemonkey]

I think it would be an even better idea to have businesses sponsor stuff. My daughter's old elementary school got free internet, cable and phone service from Timewarner because the school let them paint a big roadrunner mural on the school wall. A roadrunner was the school mascot anyway. Interestingly, that school was in Rancho Bernardo too.

And what's REALLY interesting, the school district that these schools are in have some of the best schools in San Diego county. These are not inner-city schools. These are schools in upper middle class neighborhoods (well, the San Diego definition of upper middle class, the rest of the country would consider them wealthy neighborhoods.)

[sybaritik]

Pushing ads at people while they're trying to concentrate on a test is irresponsible teaching IMO.

The world is ad-crazy. I'm sick of being bombarded with them myself.


.

[*AHIMSA*]

I think it would be an even better idea to have businesses sponsor stuff. My daughter's old elementary school got free internet, cable and phone service from Timewarner because the school let them paint a big roadrunner mural on the school wall. A roadrunner was the school mascot anyway. Interestingly, that school was in Rancho Bernardo too.

And what's REALLY interesting, the school district that these schools are in have some of the best schools in San Diego county. These are not inner-city schools. These are schools in upper middle class neighborhoods (well, the San Diego definition of upper middle class, the rest of the country would consider them wealthy neighborhoods.)

Yeah, well, I'm in San Diego and consider Rancho Bernardo to be a wealthy area too!

[SilverDratini]

I don't think just having the test on an OHP would work too well, tbh. I just imagined taking maths tests where I had to keep looking up at a board to check the numbers, and shuddered.

Far more distracting than an ad on the front page of the paper. And honestly, if you can't ignore a slogan on the page at the very beginning... Well, I'd have thought you'd do badly anyway. Or am I the only one who kept being seated near fidgeters and tappers during exams?

But still, he really shouldn't be having to do this.

[Nickle00]

I think it's a wonderful idea!! The man was in a pickle and he found a smart, fresh, creative way to get out of it and generate not only the funds that he needed but even more funds for the rest of the department!! Good for him!! :)

[JLRodgers]

In the day and age where you can be spammed on your phone, e-mail, billing address, fax numbers, home numbers, cell phone (limited, illegal, but happens by accident), billboards, radio, television, online, newspapers.... then when that doesn't do it you get little advertisements for junk in e-mails, phone, television, websites, etc..... all just to pay the cost of stuff. And so much so that unless it's some big flashing thing or something, you ignore it without giving it a second thought....

Now a teacher's relying on it so they can give tests.... 'tis a sad, sad world.


For me the simple thought comes to mind (as well, I'm starting to work with a school system that's thinking about it as what I'm doing will allow for it): why not have a computer lab where all the students take their tests there? With the exception of any drawings that'd be needed -- no paper or copies would be needed at all as it'd all be electronic. Or have all the pages of the test visible on a wall in the classroom (overhead projector, or computer based) all at once (while might be hard for some class types, it wouldn't for others, and in the end it'd save money for others to use paper if need be). Then have the students write the number/answer on lined paper.

And I remember having multiple page tests in school.... you had 2-6 questions on a page and tons of room for the answer and working it out. If they would've just said "use your own paper" for the test, the entire test would've taken one piece of paper, and many times not even requiring the back side.

But then you'd have parents complaining that they can't afford the notepads too.... so the school could do something like, oh, get some donated that have a little logo at the top of the notepad or something. Small... students would decorate the logo, and they'd have the paper for the test.

[SilverDratini]

A computer lab sounds like a good idea, but I have to say that if the school doesn't have a lab already, they don't seem to be in a financial position to get one.

(Also, after a certain level, you need specialist programs for maths on a computer, although that would be irrelevant if you'd saved money from other subjects to fund paper for the maths department.)

[JLRodgers]

A computer lab sounds like a good idea, but I have to say that if the school doesn't have a lab already, they don't seem to be in a financial position to get one.

(Also, after a certain level, you need specialist programs for maths on a computer, although that would be irrelevant if you'd saved money from other subjects to fund paper for the maths department.)

Donated computers (old ones), bake sales, etc. As long as you have enough computers for at least half a class -- and intentionally have teachers stagger tests through the week/day + the savings of all the paper not used - not to mention the cheapest computers (if every teacher gets $300 for paper, you could probably swing a deal to get one computer for every teacher on staff with only a little extra effort - while wiping out the paper budget).

[SilverDratini]

Donated computers (old ones), bake sales, etc. As long as you have enough computers for at least half a class -- and intentionally have teachers stagger tests through the week/day + the savings of all the paper not used - not to mention the cheapest computers (if every teacher gets $300 for paper, you could probably swing a deal to get one computer for every teacher on staff with only a little extra effort - while wiping out the paper budget).I stand corrected!

[codemonkey]

Why do teachers have to pay for printing tests? Wouldn't it be cheaper to have one of those big industrial laser printers in the office? They had those when I was in high school and that was like, over 15 years ago.

[JLRodgers]

Why do teachers have to pay for printing tests? Wouldn't it be cheaper to have one of those big industrial laser printers in the office? They had those when I was in high school and that was like, over 15 years ago.

If I gather right.... they probably do. But they're probably "charging the teachers" a few cents for each paper copy to keep costs down (and so one teacher doesn't blow the paper budget). Even when you do it in house - you still have some costs. And if you consider some schools have 100 students/class, and others 2000+/class... say 500 students * 5 tests a year * 5 pages/test and say there's only 6 grades with that (7-12th) would be around 75,000 pages. The costs add up.

Back when I was in school - teachers had codes (department codes, some teacher codes) in order to make copies. Every month they only had X amount of pages they could make. While students generally didn't know this, it happened. You just never really noticed it (and I had a few teachers that paid for the materials out of their own pockets then too).

[codemonkey]

If I gather right.... they probably do. But they're probably "charging the teachers" a few cents for each paper copy to keep costs down (and so one teacher doesn't blow the paper budget). Even when you do it in house - you still have some costs. And if you consider some schools have 100 students/class, and others 2000+/class... say 500 students * 5 tests a year * 5 pages/test and say there's only 6 grades with that (7-12th) would be around 75,000 pages. The costs add up.

Back when I was in school - teachers had codes (department codes, some teacher codes) in order to make copies. Every month they only had X amount of pages they could make. While students generally didn't know this, it happened. You just never really noticed it (and I had a few teachers that paid for the materials out of their own pockets then too).

That makes sense. Back when I was in high school, the teachers were really liberal about handing out supplies. My economics teacher would hand us paper for all of our quizzes and tell us to thank Pete Wilson (California governor at the time).

[Beancounter]

I don't know about everyone else, but I just block out ads.

All the banner ads on the internet are just white noise to me. It's not really an effective way to advertise.

A good quote I saw on a bumper sticker.

"It will be a great day when schools get all the money they need and they army has to hold a bake sale to buy a tank".

[JLRodgers]

Also, someome (I don't remember who) suggested putting the test on the overheard projector. I can see where they are coming from with this - - it would take up less paper. However, it would also limit the participation of children who are near-sighted, those that need to underline critical information, and those who need to work at their own pace (assuming the test is more than one page). IME, that's most kids.

I mentioned it, but I also said to have the entire test up at once (so multiple projectors). And while I didn't mention it, I was meaning for the text to be fairly large (like most people would be complaining about how big it was).

[codemonkey]

With math, it really helps to have a test that you can scribble all over. You can skimp on paper in other classes (or have kids use their own lined paper) but not math. I bet some teachers are going under their printing budget while the math teachers are struggling or covering it out of their own pockets.

[JLRodgers]

I'd think you'd still run into trouble. Many people - not just in the subject of Math - - need to be able to underline, circle, etc. critical information. Even if it was big enough, it could be confusing to dyslexic students, etc.


If it got to be a really big problem for things like that -- the teachers could do things like this:
1) See if the answer's right based on the actual problem
2) If the answer's wrong, the teacher could verify the question as copied for the dyslexic students (or all) and make sure it was copied right, if it was, well it's wrong. If it wasn't, solve it for what they had written - if that's correct, then don't mark it wrong.

Actually I knew a number of teachers/professors that would do #2. If a student completely blew an answer on a test, they'd actually look at it, and if they had it "right" for a different term (ex: giving the definition for introvert when the definition for extrovert was asked), they'd mark the question as "correct" with a small note telling them that "hey, you defined the wrong thing! But you got the other term right so I gave it to you". Other teachers would say "you transposed the numbers" and only mark off like half of the total points for the question. [let's just say.... I saw both of those a number of times].


In the end it comes down to one basic thing: not all students learn the same way, nor function as well with different medias used to teach. No matter how you give tests, it's going to hurt some students. No matter how you teach, some students will be lost (or you'll have a number of students feeling like their brain's popped and died from boredom).

One of my high school teachers had the final exam being verbal. And you knew it covered one of four (five?) topics (such as naming all the organs in multiple dissections, naming all the bones in the human body, identifying the tree based on the leaf [from memory]) -- you didn't know what it was until you got in the room and drew the thing from a hat (and yes, they were all in there; he showed you before hand). To my knowledge, no one ever failed the oral exam (the teacher helped them "cheat" - it was 1-on-1 only you and the teacher, no other students listening in or anything) -- yet everyone was terrified about the exam.


Although I actually believe students should be "tested" to see what time of day they do better with tests (a completely random "a, b, c, d, e" where the computer picks one at random and the student tries to "guess"), tested on different mediums (verbal, computer, paper, etc), and then be tested for actual exams using the method/time they do better.

[JLRodgers]

Your ideas are creative, though, and if there were a classroom full of kids that a testing presentation like that wouldn't hinder, I'd think they'd be a useful suggestion.

I've come from a teaching family in a sense (g.grandmother and grandfather were teachers, mother would've been but she thought my grandfather was wrong about her going into it [she regrets not]) -- I swear some of the teaching thing must be a genetic thing as I've always wanted to teach (but only college level [kids who probably want to learn], I just have many ideas for the others). :)

[Mojo]

I'm surprised a public school would allow this. The article doesn't give the impression that there is any accountability. It would be very easy for a teacher to pocket that money.

[Kiz]

^^^That's a big issue. The kickbacks and commissions the teacher would be receiving at this point would be fairly small. The problem is that this sets a precedent... what happens when the teacher is selling $500 or $5000 ad space in the cafeteria? 10% commission on a $20 ad is nothing... the same commission on $5000 is another matter altogether. That's when conflict of insterest starts to come in. And what about the legalities? What happens if someone complains about false advertising or breach of advertising practices? Is the school liable to go to court or the teacher?