Advice on beginning weight training?

[Binary Dragon]

I've started in the last few weeks to do some basic weight training in an attempt to raise my strength and metabolism. I've been doing it every other night, and my routine is generally as follows...

Barbell bench press - 4 sets of 12 reps with 20lbs weights in each hand.
Bicept curls - 3 sets of 8 reps with 20lbs weights.
A few other arm exercises the names of which I don't know, generally using 10lbs weights in 3 sets of 10 reps.

So I guess my question is what else should I be doing? I don't have regular access to a gym, so don't suggest anything that requires a machine. I can afford to buy more weights and other supplies as needed, so long as they aren't too expensive.

I should probably also mention that I'm fairly overweight (135kg and 187cm tall) which prevents me from doing a lot of things. I've tried sit ups but I can't really do them in any meaningful way, and push ups and pull ups are completely impossible right now.

[Earthly Delight]

You're going to have to look these up, 10x easier than me trying to explain what they are.

for your upper body:

Chest: Dumbbell Fly, dumbbell bench press

Back: Dumbbell bent over row, Dumbbell lying row

Biceps: you're right to do curls...

Triceps: kickbacks, tricep extensions

Shoulders: Shoulder press, upright row,


For the midsection: Crunches. All sorts of crunches--bycicle crunches, regular crunches, etc. Leg raises for the lower abdomen.


For the legs:

SQUAAAATS SQUATS SQUATS SQUATS SQUATS. Sorry, had to--squats are kind of the MUST of leg exercises. These work your quads, gluts and hamstrings

Quadriceps (and gluts and hamstrings) benefit from LUNGES--walking lunges or stationary, up to you. Personally I find walking 100x easier...

To focus mostly on your hamstrings, and a bit on your lower back, do deadlifts.



http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html this site is priceless for learning new moves. I'm sure Dirty Martini and Mr Sun will add to the list I provided and commentate.


Tips/advice/rules for working out:

Don't work the same muscle two days in a row. It needs to rest!

Depending how often you plan to work out there are different routines you can follow. For example, if you think you can get in a workout every day then here's a good 3 day cycle to rotate:

1. Chest, Lower Body, Triceps

2. Back, Shoulders, Biceps

3. Waist



To see weight slip off and lean muscle grow cardio is indeed required. You should be getting a 5 minute warmup at least anyway, before working out, and it'd be great if you could find time to do AT LEAST 30 minutes of cardio per cycle. Optimally more.

[Dirty Martini]

Barbell bench press - 4 sets of 12 reps with 20lbs weights in each hand.

How are you doing a "barbell" bench press with weights in each hand? I assume you meant you're doing dumbbell bench presses?



So I guess my question is what else should I be doing? I don't have regular access to a gym, so don't suggest anything that requires a machine. I can afford to buy more weights and other supplies as needed, so long as they aren't too expensive.Get a used set of dumbbells - power blocks if you can find them, as they don't take up very much room. You can easily find used equipment on craigslist.

FWIW, I think it's a waste of time and effort to do "body part" isolation workouts. You very rarely use your arms in isolation of anything else when you move around - why would you work on building your biceps without working other muscles?

Look up compound exercises. Build a couple of routines you can alternate that include exercises like:

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Presses
Shoulder/Push Presses
Lunges
Dips
Cleans
Rows
Swiss Ball Crunches (get a swiss ball - they're like $15 at Target)
Push-ups
Pull ups

All you need to do ALL of those is a set of dumbbells (going up to 50 pounds), a chin-up bar, and a swiss ball. That's it.

For fat loss, I'd start out with 3 sets of 12-15 reps for a month or so, then move down to 3 sets of 6-8 reps for a month or so with much heavier weights. Then change up your routine and start over with the set/rep pattern.

You said you can't do the latter 2 but I beg to differ. You can do push-ups with your hands on a wall, on a chair, on the counter, etc. The greater the angle of your body, the easier they are. Do 3 sets of 10 and work your way downward. It might take months, but who cares? The moment you can do one push-up on the floor is definitely one to celebrate. :)

You can do negative pull-ups - get a chin-up bar (you can buy cheap ones that mount in a door frame), stand on a chair to get your chin above the bar, then slowly lower yourself over 15-20 seconds.

About.com actually has some pretty good weight lifting pages for people who are looking to get into it. These are pretty decent beginner workouts. I'm not a big fan of the bicep curls or tricep kickbacks - you get a great bicep/tricep workout in other exercises like push presses & push-ups, but whatever.
http://exercise.about.com/cs/exbeginners/l/blbegstrength.htm
http://exercise.about.com/cs/exerciseworkouts/l/blbegstrength2.htm
http://exercise.about.com/library/blbeginnerstrength3.htm (she's leaning too far forward on the squat, btw)

Also just do some reading around.

[Dirty Martini]

My routine looks like this. I work out Tu Th Sa and I alternate my workouts. Workout 1 consists of 3 sets of 12 reps each, of front squats, seated rows, lunges, swiss ball twists, push presses, leg curls on a swiss ball. That takes me about 50 minutes. Workout 2 consists of deadlifts, push-ups, bulgarian split squats, chin-ups, romanian deadlift + row, and lower-body twist ("windshield wipers"). Those are nearly all full-body "compound" exercises and I'm completely wiped out by the end.

If you don't know what any of those exercises are, just google the term. Youtube has a TON of people doing exercises (not all of which are with proper form, FYI).

[Dirty Martini]

To see weight slip off and lean muscle grow cardio is indeed required. You should be getting a 5 minute warmup at least anyway, before working out, and it'd be great if you could find time to do AT LEAST 30 minutes of cardio per cycle. Optimally more.

I disagree. Cardio is optional. 30 minutes 2-3 times a week does help, as it assists with your caloric deficit. More cardio than that will work against you if you're trying to lose fat AND trying not to lose muscle.

More important than exercise, however, is your diet. You ABSOLUTELY need to eat less than you burn off AND you need to eat enough protein to keep your body from using your muscle for fuel.

In other words, if you exercise a few times a week but you're eating 3000 calories/day, you're not going to lose weight. You cannot out-exercise a poor diet.

[Mr. Sun]

this site is priceless for learning new moves. I'm sure Dirty Martini and Mr Sun will add to the list I provided and commentate.


I'm not into weightlifting at all so I won't offer any advice there. :)
Yes, if Dirty Martini stops in I'm sure she'll offer some advice -- you're advice seems sound, too, Earthly Delight.

You can do lots of exercises at home so you don't really need a gym membership or a set of weights. But certainly use the weights you've got if you like using them. I just do exercises that don't involve lifting weights.

Don't ever do an exercise that puts you in pain or when you are in pain. There is a difference between pain and "feeling the burn".

With any new exercise routine it's good to get basic physical from your doctor. You gave your stats in metric so I'm thinking you might be from Canada so that would be free (I don't know how it is in other countries). You're most likely fine but if it's free then it won't hurt. When you put on weight it can have an impact on your health so it's good to get that check just to make sure you're good to go.

I noticed in another thread that you are leaning towards veganism. A big factor in losing weight is a good diet. What is your diet like right now? As you lose weight you can start doing those other exercises you mentioned, eg pushups, although there are often modified versions of exercises you can do in the meantime.

There are even some very simple exercises that you can use. Do you go for walks? Does that raise your heartrate significantly? Walking can be good because it's low impact and depending on your speed and incline it can really raise your heartrate. Even walking up and down the stairs at home can do that. Or you can stand at the bottom of the stairs and step up one leg, step up the other, step down with one and then step down with the other. As your health improves you can move to jogging or faster and faster step-up, step-down exercises.

There are also some good yoga postures that you can use that give you strength.

With any exercise, make sure you ask questions so you know you're doing it correctly -- a poorly executed exercise can end up doing a lot of harm. Not to scare you, just to make you aware. :) Posture is everything. Don't lean over, for example, if you're doing step-ups -- if you get too tired to do them properly then stop. If you're doing sloppy pushups (when you get to them) because you're too tired, then stop. And if you're doing arm curls and you find you're swinging then you aren't doing them properly (unless there is some reason that a qualified trainer is telling you to do them that way).

Also, it makes a difference if you are, for example, culing slowly vs curling quickly. A slow curl will give more of your muscles a chance to work. Same with pushups and other exercises. Again, a qualified trainer may suggest you do a specific exercise more quickly for a specific training purpose but in general, from what I know about weight lifting, a slow (not too slow) and steady raising and lowering motion is recommended. Maybe DM or ED can speak to that (as I said I don't lift weights but I use this technique when doing pushups).

Good luck -- sounds like fun!

edit: I was writing offline. Looks like DM did step in. :)

[Mr. Sun]

FWIW, I think it's a waste of time and effort to do "body part" isolation workouts. You very rarely use your arms in isolation of anything else when you move around - why would you work on building your biceps without working other muscles?


I guess it would depend on what your goal is. Doesn't isolating a muscle (or a group of muscles) build your physique in a certain way?

[Dirty Martini]

To a certain extent. But let's say all you did were curls. Your arms would get bigger and the rest of your body would stay flabby (and your arms would still be fat until you got very lean - just bigger around). Maybe you find that attractive, but I sure don't :D

Isolation exercises are pretty much good for muscle imbalances or other types of spot-training (a figure competitor might do them to enhance a certain part of her body, like thighs, for instance). If your goal is to lose weight & gain overall strength, there is no need to do them.

[Mr. Sun]

Well, I think there would be very few people who would do ONLY curls. lol.

I think there are more than a few people who want a certain muscle, eg bicep, to look a certain way. So they do the rest of their workout but they focus on the bicep to get that certain look.

I'm not too sure if that can create problems but I have one friend who has problems with his shoulders because, his psysiotherapist says, he was working one set of muscles (I think with a certain kind of swim -- perhaps butterfly) and not the other set that would give him a balance so he ended up straining something on a continual basis. He's not a bodybuilder but it just shows that any musclebuilding workout needs balance.

[Dirty Martini]

Right, which is why doing compound exercises for overall strength and development (and weight loss) is a better idea than isolation exercises. You build your muscles together and they work in tandem to perform the exercises you're doing. :)

[Binary Dragon]

Thanks for all the advice! I'm not Canadian, but rather American. The use of metric comes from me being a physicist, and thus I find metric to be more natural for me.

I found that exrx site on my own a bit ago, and I quickly became overwhelmed with the number of exercises there are. What you've given me looks much more manageable though,so I'm looking forward to starting them (I currently am suffering a cold so I'm laying off the exertion until I get better).

You mentioned aerobic exercise, I ride my bike fairly regularly (50km per week commuting to and from school, plus rides of 40-50km each as weather and schedule permit [generally once a week or so]). I generally ride at 25kph and a cadence of 60, which, if you're not up on biking, means fewer, harder stokes than a typical biker (who will be in a gear that requires a cadence of 80 or so for that speed). Because of this, I feel that my legs are already pretty strong, so I'm unsure how much I need to, or should, work them. I'm also worried about exercising them knowing that I ride almost daily, thus I'm not sure they'd ever really get a rest.

For compound/isolation exercises, should I avoid the isolation exercises altogether or is it ok to do them in conjunction with the compound? I don't want to injure myself.

[Earthly Delight]

I love biking! ^__^ I built up some leg muscle biking at one point, and my PT insisted that I still work out lower body, even though she would go on about how great my leg muscles were and how jealous she was.. think of it this way: you can't JUST do upper body day after day; as said--you need a rest! Might as well do something productive in the mean time. ;) Also--biking can only build your leg muscles to a point, doing squats and lunges will take it an extra mile. You'll find it easier to bike faster though, which is always nice... (in fact it feels f'n awesome biking up to 30/35kph--you start to pass cars on the smaller streets... bwaha.)

Also the more muscle you have the more calories you need per day, and the faster weight will slip right off if you're watching your diet, as DM said, which is indeed essential for weight loss of any sort! So why avoid building muscle? Ripped thighs are suuuper sexy anyway. ^__^' (IMO..)

As for your diet, as DM mentioned...try to keep it high protein, as high protein as possible in fact since you're trying to cut calories but meanwhile gain muscle. Seitan, soy, legumes and beans are your new closest friends.... (if you're into eating friends... :P)

Oh, and combination is great--when you're doing any muscle don't stick to only one exercise. Do 3 sets of approx 8-12 reps of one exercise, as DM said (I think she said higher? That's just the number I was told) and then 3 sets of approx 8-12 reps of another exercise for the same muscle.

Another tip when working out which not only helps burn more calories but saves you some time is powersetting. For example, on my chest/legs/bis day it might look like this:

-12 fly at 8lbs
-12 squats at 30lbs
-12 fly at 10lbs
-10 squats at 35lbs
-9 fly at 10lbs
-10 squats at 35lbs
(notice weights went up and reps went slightly down--work till failure; which is until you physically can't do it anymore without screwing up your form)

then:

-12 dumbbell press at 5lbs
-a certain length of walking lunges at 5lbs/hand (it was the length of my gym and back..)
...
and so forth till i've done 3 reps, again adding weight whenever I can. You know you can if you can finish 12 and you feel like you could've done another without sacrificing form.

Now, since I went to the gym I had more variety as to what I could do, but doing two different exercises per muscle isnt a bad idea.. Altogether I'd be at the gym working out for about an hour, and that's including a 5 min warmup.

Tomorrow I move to campus, where I can use the Uni gym.. SO READY TO START AGAIN. This week is gonna be a BLAST. I'm scared to see how bad my muscles have gotten over my months' hiatus..

edit: PS. don't think I'm super buff great alltime prostar. DM's advice comes from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE which I think should be valued more than mine, which comes from regurgitating what my PT told me and only some limited personal experience.

[Mr. Sun]

Binary Dragon, sounds like you're a strong biker. That's awesome. :up:



ED: sounds like you're having too much fun. Settle down. lol :)


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When I first got into pullups as an adult I could not make myself move at all. I just hung there but I couldn't pull myself up at all. But I tried and tried and then I did get up once and then it got so much easier from there. I was strong enough but my mind had forgotten how to use those muscles in that way. It's the same with some people for pushups -- generally people have the strength to do these exercises (and ALWAYS do them properly) but their minds have forgotten how to use the muscles in that way. I like this:


In 1979, Dr. Charles Garfield, a good friend of mine and weight lifter, met with a group of Soviet sports psychologists and physiologists in Milan. They told him about the phenomonal effects of intense mental training on athletic performance. After spending several days with the Soviet researchers, Garfield had heard enough theory. He wanted to see results.

At a gym, the Soviets quizzed Garfield. "How long since you've done any serious training?" they asked. "Eight years." "What was your maximum bench press in your prime?" "365 pounds". "In recent years what is the most you've pressed?" "280 pounds".

It intrigued the Soviets that Garfield had once pressed 365. "How long would you have to train to make that lift again?" they asked. "Nine to twelve months" he said. The Soviet doctors then asked him, "Would you attempt a 300 pound lift right now?" Garfield reluctantly agreed to try. Spurred and encouraged by the Russians, and much to his surprise, Garfield (barely) made the lift.

Then the Soviets went to work. They guided him into a state of deep relaxation for 40 minutes. Then they added 65 pounds to the 300. They had him visualize approaching the bar, lying on the bench and confidently making the lift. They told him to imagine each phase of the lift: the sound of the jangling weights, his breathing, the noises of exertion he ordinarily made when lifting.

Garfield got nervous, certain he couldn't do it. He began to worry about even pressing 300 again. But the Soviets calmly told him to visualize lifting the 365. They had him look closely at his hands, the weights, and said to imagine how his muscles would feel after he succeeded. As they talked him through the whole process again, the series of images, and then the total picture, began to clarify in Garfield's mind. "The imagery now imprinted in my mind began to guide my phsyical movements... The world around me seemed to fade, giving way to self-confidence, belief in myself and then to deliberate action.

"I lifted the weights!"*

Garfield learned an important lesson in the power of mental training, concentration and visualization. It's a lesson that more and more athletes are using to their advantage.

-- Getting Stronger by Bill Pearl

*Peak Peformance by Charles A. Garfield

I'm not telling you what you can or cannot do -- just don't be surprised to find out that you can do what you thought you couldn't do. One method that some weightlifters use is assistance from another person. So if you wanted to get into pullups, for instance, you could have someone give you just enough assistance to do the pullup. If you have the strength to do it then this will help your mind know what muscles it needs to use for that exercise.

[Dirty Martini]

Hey, all the stuff I've learned was from what I've read and done, so it's not like I'm just inventing everything. :) The trick is finding what works for you and sticking with it. There tends to be a range of "what works" especially given different goals (weight training for losing fat is different from weight training for building muscle is different from weight training for muscle endurance etc). Higher reps tend to be better for fat loss (8-15 reps) while lower reps (4-8) with heavier weight tend to be better for strength development. Changing up your routine, though, will keep your body from adapting to what you're doing and help keep your fat loss moving right along.

Anyway, I was going to say that cycling will definitely build up your legs but cyclists also don't get a full ROM (range of motion) from cycling. You'll likely see an improvement in your cycling from weight lifting because you'll be further developing your muscles through weight training. Squats & deads are great exercises for cyclists.

As for your Q on isolation exercises, there's no reason to do them at all BUT if you want to do them, go for it. There's no reason you can't do some tricep kickbacks if you want. I'm just saying they're really not necessary.

You might come up with a routine that is made up of 3 sets of 15 reps of 6 exercises:

Squat
Bench Press
Lunge
Push-Up
Swiss Ball Crunch
Dumbbell row

Then you might pair them up, so you do:
15 Squats, 15 Bench Presses, 15 Squats, 15 Bench Presses, 15 Squats, 15 Bench Presses
15 Lunges, 15 Push-Ups, 15 Lunges, 15 Push-Ups, 15 Lunges, 15 Push-Ups
15 Swiss Ball Crunches, 15 Dumbbell Rows, 15 Swiss Ball Crunches, 15 Dumbbell Rows, 15 Swiss Ball Crunches, 15 Dumbbell Rows

Notice what you're doing here - you're pairing up exercises that are dominant in different parts of the body. That way, you're still doing compound exercises but you're giving the part that was worked hard a bit of time to rest. I find it more appealing to do it that way than to do all my squats then all my presses then all my lunges etc.

Here's more info on supersets: http://exercise.about.com/cs/weightlifting/a/supersets.htm

[Dirty Martini]

I'm not telling you what you can or cannot do -- just don't be surprised to find out that you can do what you thought you couldn't do.

This is the most important thing I have learned from weight lifting. I can do things I never thought I could do and it's all because I've set goals, I've challenged myself, and I've worked incredibly hard. I own that and no one can take those achievements away from me. I earned them fair & square.

As a result, I found confidence I never thought I'd have. It's amazing how liberating/exciting it is when you do that first push-up, first pull-up, squat 100 pounds, etc. :)