Jamie Oliver's Fowl Dinners

[paulwalkersgirl]

Channel 10, 9.30pm ... tune in. :sunny: I was supposed to go to musical rehearsals tonight but am not feeling the best so I chose to stay home. *hides* hehe. I hope the program tonight will make Australians think when they buy chickens etc.

[Kristen4382]

Continued from chat thread:

I don't know if it's just me, or if I am actually becoming desensitised somehow, but I didn't find the electrocution part [I]too shocking. I really hated the bit where they put the bird onto the rack, and the bleeding wasn't great, but it looked like Jamie wanted to do it properly. I didn't find the show upsetting. I think I was on too much of a high, with Jamie hopefully getting an important message across to his fellow omnivores.

Totally wanted to reach through my television and slap that b!tch who wouldn't pay an extra dollar or two for a 'happier' chicken. I think she was on the junk food table [looked like she didn't have a healthy diet]. Maybe if she saved money elsewhere, she could afford it. Also, not having so much chicken might help!

Chicken-killing-industry aside, I liked that farmer who had the variety of chickens on his farm. He came across as being a decent bloke. I only hope he [and others on the show] are as considerate when the cameras are not rolling. I fell in love with that brown chicken he picked up. Gorgeous. Dead now, but gooorgeous.

Something I mentioned on FaceBook:

He should do a sequel! Maybe bring in a carcass of a chook that has suffered a prolapse.. a little snippet of Earthlings with debeaking and grinding. I think I'm pretty happy with the show, how it was designed for omnivores who wish to continue eating meat, by someone who is into organic/eating meat. We could put together something horrific, exposing the atrocities that occur to the chicks not lucky enough to be gassed etc... we could show how eating meat is not cool, til the cows come home [pun intended. They will never come home] but it would appear like vego propoganda I think. Easier to accept if it's from one of their own. So in that sense, I was happy with the show.

[Charlottejane]

To be honest, I didn't like the show at all.

I think it just further normalised the whole concept that we're meant to eat animals. Jamie portrayed the attitude that it's just a sad fact of life that they have to die for us to eat them and their products, but so be it. I think it was a feeble attempt at trying to get UK consumers to buy chickens and eggs from 'happier' farms but I can't see that it will have any fundamental effect on people at all.

The fact that we didn't find it shocking or totally unwatchable is not an accident - it was meant to be palatable. The fact that it wasn't shocking means that it will not affect people enough to cause any great change. Do we really believe that the battery farms shown on his program were a truthful and accurate representation of all battery farms on any given day in the UK? I don't.

I don't think that promoting free-range or ethical meat is the way to go at all. If you have the time to read it, this article says it much better than I can: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/?p=31 (http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/?p=31)

[sybaritik]

I was round a friends place when it was on so we only ended up catching bits and pieces of it so it was difficult to get a good handle on what it was really like...I'm going to watch it at the weekend if I get a moment.



I don't think that promoting free-range or ethical meat is the way to go at all. If you have the time to read it, this article says it much better than I can: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/?p=31

Sorry, not a fan of the abolitionist approach.

Some of it is good in theory, but in practice it's not realistic.

[paulwalkersgirl]

The whole thing is really hard... it's not just black and white.

I think that woman said that what about the people who are on a really tight budget, what happens if they cannot afford to buy free-range? Hmmm.... you know what I said out loud? If one fortnight, you can afford to get free-range chicken & eggs, then do that and when there's a fortnight when you cannot afford them... simple, don't buy it. It won't hurt to be without chicken & eggs for a fortnight.?? *shrugs*

[jAded]

I watched up until they were about to do whatever they were going to do to the male chicks. So about 5 minutes. I think I have a good idea of what they did?

[paulwalkersgirl]

I got this mass private message from a new vegan friend on facebook...

"My Dear wider community of Facebook Friends

Tonight was revolutionary in some respects for mainstream Australian Television.

Despite the profound change that the internet has had in making it possible for us to create common communities of practise it remains an inescapable fact that mainstrem media via television and radio is still the primary route to the consciousness of the masses.

And so I watched 'Jamies Fowl Dinners' and as the show ended I felt more in despair than ever.

Because the inescapable tenent of the show was that we could all rejoice in moving towards 'free-range' 'organic' 'happy' meat (thanks to Bob Linden from goveganradio for that last euphemism)

And that made me feel terribly sad.

Is this the biggest shift in mainstream consciousness that we are to see in our lifetime. From totally callous factory farming to slightly less callous factory farming?

How can we ever be satisfied with that as an outcome?

When he electrocuted that bird live in front of the camera and then it panned to the audience who could not notice the natural shock and revolusion that was evident?

And where was the vegan voice?

Its just not good enough for us all to band together for support in online communities like this.

Nor will we ever win the good fight against slick mainstrem media that pushes the envelope just slightly enough but not too much to negatively affect the ratings.

The vegan world needs to band together and create, not just a uTube video response but a mainstream video response to that show. We need to be able to say on prime time TV that this isn't the way and explain our case.

We need to say to Mr Oliver politely, 'you suck'. What you are espousing is wrong and that the true path to the future lies in turning our back on everything to do with animal use and exploitation.

And we need to make it breathtakingly easy for the average person to realise that it is possible for them to achieve that.

Did anyone see the way the chicken carcasses were ground up into 'manufactured meat' and that people in the audience still ate it? talk about OMG.

Did anyone see the way people connected with the industry cavalierly referred to the chickens as 'production units'?

We still have a long way to go.

But until we mobilise ourselves into a cohesive unit that can fund a mainstream production as a response our voice will be lost and the collective consciousness will move towards acceptance of free range and organic as acceptable.

Its not enough to have an Oprah or an Ellen as a mouthpiece for a week or two. We need sustained action. And money.

Your thoughts and responses are gratiously sought

With Love

M"

[Kristen4382]

Response to that letter...
[Firstly 'you' and 'we' = veg*ns. Not anyone in particular :)]

My thoughts are that I'm glad someone the public accepts, tries to make them more aware. If I started talking to people about it, knowing I'm a vego they often switch off and think I am shoving my beliefs down their throats, belittling them and telling them they are wrong, bad, etc. [yes I think eating meat is a bad choice, but I would rather suggest it in a subtle way, to get their attention, and potentially scare the bejesus out of them later on, Earthlings style:whip:].

I don't think the world will totally accept veg*nism for some time, but I feel that by giving some focus to the alternatives to factory farm 'produce', it at least brings the issues to attention. Sure, I wish I could sit people down and make them watch Earthlings, Meet Your Meat, whatever... but who is going to put up with me more or less lecturing them on the stuff, even when I do it as nicely as I do. Even pointing out a fact about a type of animal/meat in the supermarket or every day life is seen as an attack on peoples choices, from me the high-and-mighty elitist vegetarian [which I am not. I don't expect people to change for me. I want them to take interest of their own accord. To figure it out for themselves, but with some guidance or info from me if they wish]

To me, in a sense, this is a step in the right direction. I didn't see it only as Jamie saying 'it's ok to eat it, if you make better choices'. I saw it as a public figure showing the public that OMG animals die so you can eat them, and it's not pretty. He brought welfare issues to attention, and that is something I can work from. I've already talked to a few friends about the show, and no doubt will talk to more at work on Saturday. So far I have discussed the killing methods of male chicks, prolapse, debeaking etc as a result of omnivorous friends watching this show. If they're not going to give up meat, then fine...they can be stubborn a-holes about it. The very least they could do, is be more aware, and make more informed choices. Also, to some extent, I don't care if it's for Jamie's publicity, if an improved standard of living for chickens can possibly be a result of this kind of show, then I am all for it. For me, it's primarily about awareness, and having this kind of show on at primetime, is much better than anything else we've had on national tv in recent times.

Then again, the letter is from a vegan. I'm not vegan, but as you [Lisa] know I'm making moves in terms of replacing non-vegan stuff, with vegan alternatives. I don't think it means I'm any less passionate about the cause, I just want to control my emotions to an extent where my opinions can be accepted by a wider variety [omni's]. This doesn't mean I will hold back. I'll tell people as much as I can, but I want them to interact in a conversation rather than seem like I'm preaching. If baby steps are what they need in order to make a change, then I'm all for it. If you don't think you can be vego, consider giving up meat once a week. Buy free range chicken and eggs .

At Uni [environmental degree] it was [B][I]SO much about 'multi-perspective analysis'. As much as we want to, we can't go in with guns blazing with a 'No! You're wrong! Do it this way you horrible person, your lifestyle choice disgusts me! Veganism is the only way' approach. It might be true, but how many people will listen? I think that, as uncomfortable as it is, it's important to see it from the omnivores point of view, if you expect them to even consider seeing it from yours.

I wonder how many enemies I make after that! If anyone wants to pick it apart, or I didn't explain something very well, pick away :p But I think that explains why I was reasonably satisfied with the show. [That wasn't in a nutshell, was it?]

[sybaritik]

I got this mass private message from a new vegan friend on facebook...

"My Dear wider community of Facebook Friends

Tonight was revolutionary in some respects for mainstream Australian Television.

Despite the profound change that the internet has had in making it possible for us to create common communities of practise it remains an inescapable fact that mainstrem media via television and radio is still the primary route to the consciousness of the masses.

And so I watched 'Jamies Fowl Dinners' and as the show ended I felt more in despair than ever.

Because the inescapable tenent of the show was that we could all rejoice in moving towards 'free-range' 'organic' 'happy' meat (thanks to Bob Linden from goveganradio for that last euphemism)

And that made me feel terribly sad.

Is this the biggest shift in mainstream consciousness that we are to see in our lifetime. From totally callous factory farming to slightly less callous factory farming?

How can we ever be satisfied with that as an outcome?

When he electrocuted that bird live in front of the camera and then it panned to the audience who could not notice the natural shock and revolusion that was evident?

And where was the vegan voice?

Its just not good enough for us all to band together for support in online communities like this.

Nor will we ever win the good fight against slick mainstrem media that pushes the envelope just slightly enough but not too much to negatively affect the ratings.

The vegan world needs to band together and create, not just a uTube video response but a mainstream video response to that show. We need to be able to say on prime time TV that this isn't the way and explain our case.

We need to say to Mr Oliver politely, 'you suck'. What you are espousing is wrong and that the true path to the future lies in turning our back on everything to do with animal use and exploitation.

And we need to make it breathtakingly easy for the average person to realise that it is possible for them to achieve that.

Did anyone see the way the chicken carcasses were ground up into 'manufactured meat' and that people in the audience still ate it? talk about OMG.

Did anyone see the way people connected with the industry cavalierly referred to the chickens as 'production units'?

We still have a long way to go.

But until we mobilise ourselves into a cohesive unit that can fund a mainstream production as a response our voice will be lost and the collective consciousness will move towards acceptance of free range and organic as acceptable.

Its not enough to have an Oprah or an Ellen as a mouthpiece for a week or two. We need sustained action. And money.

Your thoughts and responses are gratiously sought

With Love

M"



With the way things are Lisa, I think that your facebook friend should be happy that it is being discussed at all on network TV to be honest.

[IntheFlesh?]

I got this mass private message from a new vegan friend on facebook...

"My Dear wider community of Facebook Friends

Tonight was revolutionary in some respects for mainstream Australian Television.

Despite the profound change that the internet has had in making it possible for us to create common communities of practise it remains an inescapable fact that mainstrem media via television and radio is still the primary route to the consciousness of the masses.

And so I watched 'Jamies Fowl Dinners' and as the show ended I felt more in despair than ever.

Because the inescapable tenent of the show was that we could all rejoice in moving towards 'free-range' 'organic' 'happy' meat (thanks to Bob Linden from goveganradio for that last euphemism)

And that made me feel terribly sad.

Is this the biggest shift in mainstream consciousness that we are to see in our lifetime. From totally callous factory farming to slightly less callous factory farming?

How can we ever be satisfied with that as an outcome?

When he electrocuted that bird live in front of the camera and then it panned to the audience who could not notice the natural shock and revolusion that was evident?

And where was the vegan voice?

Its just not good enough for us all to band together for support in online communities like this.

Nor will we ever win the good fight against slick mainstrem media that pushes the envelope just slightly enough but not too much to negatively affect the ratings.

The vegan world needs to band together and create, not just a uTube video response but a mainstream video response to that show. We need to be able to say on prime time TV that this isn't the way and explain our case.

We need to say to Mr Oliver politely, 'you suck'. What you are espousing is wrong and that the true path to the future lies in turning our back on everything to do with animal use and exploitation.

And we need to make it breathtakingly easy for the average person to realise that it is possible for them to achieve that.

Did anyone see the way the chicken carcasses were ground up into 'manufactured meat' and that people in the audience still ate it? talk about OMG.

Did anyone see the way people connected with the industry cavalierly referred to the chickens as 'production units'?

We still have a long way to go.

But until we mobilise ourselves into a cohesive unit that can fund a mainstream production as a response our voice will be lost and the collective consciousness will move towards acceptance of free range and organic as acceptable.

Its not enough to have an Oprah or an Ellen as a mouthpiece for a week or two. We need sustained action. And money.

Your thoughts and responses are gratiously sought

With Love

M"

I like him/her.

And I agree with Charlottejane. This simply isn't good enough; it wholeheartedly condones animal exploitation and death, provided that it is conducted in a "humane" fashion. It is welfarist propaganda such as this that is making the task of abolition so much harder -- as long as people view animal products as "humanely produced", they will see no reason not to consume them.

[Smurfbabe]

I'm in Canada at the moment but I caught some snippets of it on youtube - mostly the gross stuff. I'm still undecided about whether I think it was good or bad...like some of you have said it's great to promote free range meat but on the other hand it's still saying it's okay to eat them, which I just don't believe in anymore.

I found him killing the chicken pretty horrible - I mean that is one of the most 'humane' ways but the chicken looked uncomfortable being strung up there..and bleeding it out was not pleasant. I was happy seeing the shocked faces of the people watching him do it, it made them uncomfortable too and that's what I think people NEED in order to change. People don't want to think about how the chicken gets to their plate - and now they know...

Suffocating the male chicks was awful too. I think even if the show gets people talking and thinking about these issues then that can only be a good sign.

Still..why pay more for free range when you can not eat them and pay nothing! Makes perfect sense to me.

[erin84]

I was also frustrated that it seemed to suggest that organic or free range makes meat eating okay. But I was more upset about the things that weren't shown - what happens when the bird isn't electrocuted and is killed while completely conscious? They made out like there are no mistakes. What about all the "chick factories" where its too expensive/time consuming to gas the male chicks/deformed chicks and they are simply buried alive or put into a garbage compactor?

What I found made me really angry was that apparently everyone in the audience still ate the chicken, even the horrid MRM.

I can understand the point of the show but found it distinctly lacking. What is required is a mainstream vegan or even vegetarian chef. Or even nutritionist!! The people we rely on in Australia - overseas celebrity chefs, homegrown celebrity chefs and nutritionists seem to promote the consumption of meat.

Something I did find interesting was Jamie's show that was on channel 10 last week - Eat to save your life. In that show, the nutritionist only once mentioned meat as a way of improving health, and it was the last option. Almost all of her suggestions involved eating vegetables, fruit and grains. Then again, of the 18 people Jamie had on the show, none of them appeared to eat any vegetables other than potato anyway.

[kali]

I think even if the show gets people talking and thinking about these issues then that can only be a good sign.

i reckon thats about as much as we can hope for right now. im sure there wouldve been some people considering vegetarianism after seeing it.

[paulwalkersgirl]

i reckon thats about as much as we can hope for right now. im sure there wouldve been some people considering vegetarianism after seeing it.

I totally agree, kali. :yes: