Time to stockup/prepare ?

[prudence]

Thats awful:(

[rvijay]

Thats awful:(

Some of my Indian Omni friends told me already that by eating rats, famine will be avoided and the lives of Vegans/Vegetarians will be saved. (So in effect we need to be grateful to them.)

[rvijay]

You Tube Videos on Indian Farmer Suicides:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=India+Farmer+Suicide&search_type=

Comments: From these Videos, the Indian famine challenge in certain areas becomes evident. Also, the reason for the Minister's suggestion becomes evident.

[codemonkey]

If you have a stockpile of food when no one else in your area does in the time of a major, major emergency then you will become the target of looters, or destitute people dropping their starving children at your doorstep or more likely the government or local militia will simply impound your food.


And this has ever happened when? And according to you, there will never be a real emergency that huge, so I have nothing to worry about right?

[rvijay]

One of my friends here asked me about Rat Food Quality Control and I couldn't help laughing inside of myself. On a serious note, this has happened before in other societies and they have managed to survive on this. However, I hope that all readers of this thread again realize that there is a limited number of rats and the entire population can't be expected to survive on rat alone as soon their numbers will start to dimnish.

Some can again argue that once this happens, folks can start eating bugs and other insects, but again these are ok as side snacks but don't provide daily calorie needs (http://www.food-insects.com). So basically, once this path in the food chain starts, every living being no matter how small will be given an economic value, tracked down, captured and eaten. This will happen before any disease on a wide scale sets in. Some may even go for these other species in advance given their economic incentives.

The main question that is of concern is that once all or even 1/3rd of these 'Alternate Foods' are exhausted, what kind of a situation will prevail ? Also, how will this affect the ecosystem. With such a large reduction in all these species due to humans eating them, how will future plant propagation, pollination etc., be affected due to the overall effects on the entire ecosystem at the end ? Will there be a permanent damage to the ecosystem in these regions ?

What is really scary is that there is a jump for quick fixes without considering the long term consequences on the ecosystem as a whole.

It is not what we want to see, it is what is practically happening there that counts. In practical terms, I fear that the ecosystem in this region will be permanently affected due to this path discussed here.

There is a good chance this will spread to other species and even for entertainment value. Regarding snakes, there is also an entertainment value. There are some folks who make a mongoose fight with a snake. This is done close to railway stations, bus stops etc., For a living, they use donated coins of passers by who watch this show. The mongoose keeps fighting with the snake, since the snake is sorrounded, it can't escape and is thrown back to fight with the mongoose even if it does. The fight gets pretty nasty from the middle, with the snake getting injured and starting to bleed. Eventually, the mongoose kills the snake and eats it as his prized meal. The mongoose is also probably starved so that he fights hard. (Some videos on this on youtube even)

As a teen, I have seen this a few times on my daily commute to school.

If India succeeds even short term with this and then let us say China follows and this is followed by a few other Nations. Then down the road, the UN may even suggest this as a policy. Then this will be the last nail in the coffin for rats and a big blow against veganism/vegetarianism. This will take time but we can see after a while, if we are going down this road.

There are people who eat rats in other parts of Asia. This is number is not significant. However, this is seems to be the first time that a Major Govt. in that region is promoting this in a big way. This is definetely expected to have an impact.

This seems to be:
1. The biggest meat eating promotion by any Govt. in this entire decade.
2. This will send the local ecosystem to the point of no return blackhole.
3. All the efforts, people, logistics, budget of IVU, PETA and other Veggie promotion efforts will be dwarfed by this HUGE Project.
4. This will be like folks scrambling to eat from the Pandora's Box:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora's_box

Some may not find it fun to live in a place that eats Dead Rats etc., etc., Imagine all the smell, all the kinds of wastes that this will create. Imagine how this will affect local water system, sanitation, health etc., Not a great situation at all.

[rvijay]

India is a very great Country. It has the IITs, IIMs, IAS Officers, Agricultural Scientists, Biologists and a very huge number of other Professionals. India has the most number of Vegetarians in the World. Several Indians have been Vegetarian for generations (100s of years atleast, if not 1000s of years)

The former Indian President was Extremely well educated/experienced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Kalam
He was pretty much like the equivalent of NASA director.

However, for India to promote rat eating shows a clear indication of the challenges ahead. In my opinion, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Comments from one and all are welcome in this regard.

[rvijay]

FDIC: bank profits fell by 86 percent in 2Q
http://apnews.myway.com//article//20080826/D92Q58KG0.html

Comments: Does this really need any comments ?!! Straight from the
FDIC. Wow !!

[Tame]

It certainly doesn't need any of your comments. I somehow think you don't quite comprehend everything you read.

[rvijay]

I somehow think you don't quite comprehend everything you read.

I appreciate positive criticism. Being specific helps.

I don't like to post random links, hence add some of my comments. But in the case of the above article everything is quite evident. Even a few months ago this couldn't have been envisioned.

[Tame]

Yes , it could easily have been envisioned. Why do you think bank stocks have been dropping rapidly? It was no secret profits would be taking big hits.

[MrFalafel]

And this has ever happened when? And according to you, there will never be a real emergency that huge, so I have nothing to worry about right?

There you go! Stockpile away then. You'll either never use it or have it looted by scavengers while decimating your loved ones. Great sense of logic, there....?

[MrFalafel]

Imagine, if you will, you are a travelling deep in the Amazon jungle and you come across a tribe of people with little or no contact with the outside world. The tribe has a rich culture and are very advanced at feeding themselves and have an oral history steeped in learned knowledge. They have great faciltiies for learning and taking care of themselves.

But then you notice there is an air of discord, many of the tribe are stressed. You notice they are agitated and spend a lot of their time arguing amongst themselves. You also see that they are forgoing a lot of their normal peaceful activities and are stockpiling food. You ask why they are stock piling when there is so much food so easily available. And then you learn that 'the monkey people are coming'. This phrase is repeated by everyone in the tribe. You try to get more information about the monkey people and learn about a legend told within the tribe of a vicious, evil invader that sounds more monster-like than human. It sounds a bit far fetched.

You visit the chieftain. The chief is wise man but he too echoes the fear of the monkey people. He refers back to the witch doctor who describes detailed signs that the monkey people are coming including different weather patterns, moss growing on the wrong side of trees, and other natural events that have been interpreted seemingly at random.

You then radio the local university and ask about the monkey people. Experts on the area, its lore and tribes are consulted and there is no recorded reference to monkey people. It seems totally made up.

Back in the tribal village, you happen to talk to an elderly lady who tends a cooking fire. She tells you how the current chief was having all sorts of problems with the tribe questioning his authority. And also the witch doctor was under attack for not being effective in his treatments. It was about this time the signs of the imminient attack of the monkey people started appearing. And with this threat, the tribe forgot all about their frustrations with their chief and doctor and instead focused on getting ready for the monkey people.

so the moral of this story is: the monkey people aren't coming. They never were coming. The threat is just a way for people to make a living from people who are afraid and don't understand whats going on around them.

Are you a futures trader? Are you an economics major? If not, why are you quesitoning those who are in favour of listening to crackpots on the internet who make a living selling crackpot books and talking on crackpot radio shows? You think those people do it for free? They are preying on your ignorance and fear. In fact, they more afraid you are the more money you will spend on them so its in their interest to make you as afraid as possible.

Don't listen to the fear mongers. The monkey people aren't coming.

[rvijay]

Yes , it could easily have been envisioned. Why do you think bank stocks have been dropping rapidly? It was no secret profits would be taking big hits.

True. I guess this was my human reaction, deep inside me, I didn't expect/want this big a drop on profits.

[rvijay]

Are you a futures trader? Are you an economics major? If not, why are you quesitoning those who are in favour of listening to crackpots on the internet who make a living selling crackpot books and talking on crackpot radio shows? You think those people do it for free? They are preying on your ignorance and fear. In fact, they more afraid you are the more money you will spend on them so its in their interest to make you as afraid as possible.

Don't listen to the fear mongers. The monkey people aren't coming.

Professionals were trusted in the past. However, they did a bad job. That is why everyone is noticing the failing signs. When the house is on fire by the professionals, the common man has to do his best to survive the situation.

Again in retrospective, the bankers are afraid that due to the preparatory efforts of the common man for the future challenges, more money will be drawn from the banks increasing their challenges. Hence, their efforts at damage control.

Bottom line, the facts are there for everyone to make their own decision.

[MrFalafel]

Professionals were trusted in the past. However, they did a bad job. That is why everyone is noticing the failing signs. When the house is on fire by the professionals, the common man has to do his best to survive the situation.

Again in retrospective, the bankers are afraid that due to the preparatory efforts of the common man for the future challenges, more money will be drawn from the banks increasing their challenges. Hence, their efforts at damage control.

Bottom line, the facts are there for everyone to make their own decision.

Bottom line: if you don't understand the facts fully you cannot make an informed decision.

Your above statement is wrong about bankers. I work in the financial services industry. You are quite simply stating an uniformed statement based on conjecture.

So you now do not trust 'professionals' so you are turning your trust to conspiracy theorist and internet crackpots? Good luck with that :lol:

[rvijay]

So you now do not trust 'professionals' so you are turning your trust to conspiracy theorist and internet crackpots? Good luck with that :lol:

The facts are comming in reports in open media now. One need not even look very hard. Even some bankers are becomming very open about it.

Deepening Economic Crisis May Trigger Family Breakdown
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048935/Deepening-economic-crisis-trigger-family-breakdown.html

[rvijay]

Your above statement is wrong about bankers. I work in the financial services industry. You are quite simply stating an uniformed statement based on conjecture.


This is not just about the Banking Industry by the way. It also involves environment, food system, natural resources etc., Most if not all of us took everything for granted and to last endlessly. However, new data is greatly improving awareness in this regard. Look at it this way, if we all had excess of natural resources, excellent environment even the worst financial crash can be managed. To be real sincere, I was also ignorant of all these factors a few years ago.

[MrFalafel]

The facts are comming in reports in open media now. One need not even look very hard. Even some bankers are becomming very open about it.

Deepening Economic Crisis May Trigger Family Breakdown
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048935/Deepening-economic-crisis-trigger-family-breakdown.html

The Daily Mail? :lol:

That is ridiculous article, typical of the Daily Mail. The article could also be spun into 'Deepening Economic Crisis Can Trigger Eating Family Pets'.

The problem with the internet crackpots is their extrapolation. They don't understand the big picture or macro economics so when they hear a financial expert voicing concern over specific economic activity, they turn this into THE SKY IS FALLING! when in reality the economic expert is simply talking about 1/4 percent interest rate change.

[MrFalafel]

This is not just about the Banking Industry by the way. It also involves environment, food system, natural resources etc., Most if not all of us took everything for granted and to last endlessly. However, new data is greatly improving awareness in this regard. Look at it this way, if we all had excess of natural resources, excellent environment even the worst financial crash can be managed. To be real sincere, I was also ignorant of all these factors a few years ago.

But you've just said you've rejected experts and professionals? How can you believe one set of data from one source while exluding another set of data form another source?

How do you determine what is truth and what is not? If the experts and professionals are 'wrong' then the amatuers and people inexperienced with the subject matter are 'right'? That doesn't make sense, does it?

Perhaps you are grabbing at random sets of data that tie into your doom and gloom theories and are rejecting normal data from experts that doesn't tie into your doom and gloom scenarios?

[rvijay]

The Daily Mail? :lol:

That is ridiculous article, typical of the Daily Mail. The article could also be spun into 'Deepening Economic Crisis Can Trigger Eating Family Pets'.

The problem with the internet crackpots is their extrapolation. They don't understand the big picture or macro economics so when they hear a financial expert voicing concern over specific economic activity, they turn this into THE SKY IS FALLING! when in reality the economic expert is simply talking about 1/4 percent interest rate change.

I expected a response like this, eventhough it is from Britain's one of top Powerful Bankers. :bobo:

[codemonkey]

There you go! Stockpile away then. You'll either never use it or have it looted by scavengers while decimating your loved ones. Great sense of logic, there....?

Never using it would be wasteful. You should use what you store and keep replenishing.

[rvijay]

Perhaps you are grabbing at random sets of data that tie into your doom and gloom theories and are rejecting normal data from experts that doesn't tie into your doom and gloom scenarios?

From your posts it is evident that you are repeating things that will benefit the Banking Industry and denying/putting down everything else systematically. Hence, I am not going to argue with you or justify myself all the time. I will only post when I feel it is needed.

[Coney]

Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are basically insolvent. Lots of trusted financial folks say so. That will bring $6 Trillion of debt into the hands of the American taxpayers.

Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley are having sever problems. Washington Mutual's stocks are at $3 after being at $40 just last year. There are lots of shouts from the mountain tops about how bad this financial slam will be. Here's a good article from yesterday: http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john_mauldins_outside_the_box/archive/2008/08/25/dead-men-walking.aspx

There are tent cities springing up all over the US because so many people have lost their houses. Half a million people lost their jobs thus far this year. How bad does this thing have to get before you will say "I guess we're in a downturn" or anything close to that, Mr. Falafel?

"Bank profits tumble 86% in 2nd quarter"
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26409335/for/cnbc/

And then there's Peak Oil on top of all this. If we enter a New Great Depression, it will be very hard to pull out of it, due to a downturn in oil supply. But that's a whole other problem...

[Tame]

Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are basically insolvent. Lots of trusted financial folks say so. That will bring $6 Trillion of debt into the hands of the American taxpayers.

Wow. I have never seen so much misunderstanding packed into two sentences.



There are tent cities springing up all over the US because so many people have lost their houses.

Really? I travel a lot, and have not seen one yet.


Half a million people lost their jobs thus far this year.
And unemployment still under 6%. (And no, that rate is not determined by how many are collecting unemployment, so don't start that.)



How bad does this thing have to get before you will say "I guess we're in a downturn" or anything close to that, Mr. Falafel?

I don't believe he has said we are not in a downturn. We are. The question is how severe, and is some nutters packing soup in the basement will mean anything.



"Bank profits tumble 86% in 2nd quarter"
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26409335/for/cnbc/

Yep, they did. Not expected, which is why their stocks declined. Of course, that doesn't mean banks lost 86% of their money, which I suspect is what you and rj believe.



And then there's Peak Oil on top of all this. If we enter a New Great Depression, it will be very hard to pull out of it, due to a downturn in oil supply. But that's a whole other problem...
:lol:

[MrFalafel]

Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are basically insolvent. Lots of trusted financial folks say so. That will bring $6 Trillion of debt into the hands of the American taxpayers.

Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley are having sever problems. Washington Mutual's stocks are at $3 after being at $40 just last year. There are lots of shouts from the mountain tops about how bad this financial slam will be. Here's a good article from yesterday: http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john_mauldins_outside_the_box/archive/2008/08/25/dead-men-walking.aspx

There are tent cities springing up all over the US because so many people have lost their houses. Half a million people lost their jobs thus far this year. How bad does this thing have to get before you will say "I guess we're in a downturn" or anything close to that, Mr. Falafel?

"Bank profits tumble 86% in 2nd quarter"
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26409335/for/cnbc/

And then there's Peak Oil on top of all this. If we enter a New Great Depression, it will be very hard to pull out of it, due to a downturn in oil supply. But that's a whole other problem...

You are confusing a mild recession with an ECONOMIC MELTDOWN!!! :lol: