Time to stockup/prepare ?

[Quinoa]

In contrast, one can escape reality by watching Disney, Soap Opera etc., but in the longer run this is not advisable.
I do not watch Disney or soap operas.
Am I escaping reality if I don’t share the panic?
Reality is that there are millions of people worldwide who are already affected by real disasters, from AIDS orphans in Africa to flood victims in Burma and the many poor in various countries who really cannot afford to buy even the simplest foods anymore - not only but also (30% of food shortage issues are because of this I just read*) because rich countries choose to burn what could be food as fuel. Considering this reality, it would seem somewhat cynical to me as a person living in a country where food prices might be rising, but food is at least available (and plenty of it), to stock up en masse now (let alone secretly, so that nobody might find out about it, and to make sure I won’t “have to” share anything...)
* see http://www.oxfam.de/a_611_presse.asp?id=336

I’m sure this thread is well-meant, and the “stock up and prepare” advice is all very nice if someone lives in the countryside, and has plenty of storage room, and a big garden to grow their own foods etc. But how is a family in the city going to store esp. water supplies even for a week, let alone for several months? Honestly, I think that if there is no fresh water available in a big city for weeks, we will have far bigger problems than where to get veg*n protein sources…

That said, I always do try to stock my food pantry well enough to get me through short or medium-term “hardships” (in big quotation marks), a habit formed when I was a student. But I do not plan on starting any time soon to buy potatoes in huge bags (I was taught that if you have to store them in your kitchen, as opposed to a cool cellar or so which not everyone has, never to buy more potatoes than you can use within a week), or hundredweights of grains and legumes (which, if disaster does not strike, will only have less nutrients and require more energy to cook the longer they already have been stored).

[rvijay]

Excellent points, questions. Relocate to the Countryside. Again not easy but this is the best solution. Relocate to a place that is good for living and doesn't have problems.

Just think in a City, after oil collapse, no water, no food, no A/C, heating, no shower/toilet flushing, no police as no oil. Hunger and fear will strike hard, if not immediate then in 3 weeks or so, mobs will form and law will break down. Lots of such events in History.

[codemonkey]

If you live in the city, make sure you have an escape plan. If you have family further away that will let you stay with them if there's ever an emergency, that would be great. When we lived in an apartment, my parents knew that if there was ever an emergency, we'd be coming to stay with them (we were almost evacuated once because of a fire and we had our car all packed and ready to go to their house.) With water, they recommend storing two weeks worth (that comes out to 14 gallons per person) and have some way to purify more water.

The thing with long-term food storage is that you need to actually use what you store. The good news is that we should be eating beans and grains anyway. I tend to avoid using dried beans but I'd like to start getting in the habit of cooking a big batch of beans myself and freezing them instead of using canned beans all the time.

I live in the suburbs. I don't have a ton of land but I do have space for a small garden. Unfortunately I suck at gardening. I definitely need to improve my gardening skills. But you can grow a little container garden in your kitchen and you don't need any space at all to grow sprouts (you can grow a ton of sprouts with a few mason jars.) If I can grow sprouts, anyone can. Anyway, my point is, do what you can. If you can only store a few weeks worth of food, store a few weeks worth of food. It'll get you through most emergencies just fine.

[codemonkey]

Be very careful with this though. I read about Mob behaviour in Argentina after collapse. SOme folks gave info. to mobs or were tortured to reveal info. regarding who has stockpiled etc., and then their homes were attacked. So, in such cases, even if there is slight suspicion, lying quiet and low is a lot better.

I'm not planning to put a sign up that says "free food come on over" but I'll definitely share with my family and neighbors as much as I can.

[Quinoa]

Relocate to the Countryside.
And waste more fuel e. g. to commute into the city to work as long as disaster has not yet struck?
Also, in a densely populated and rather small country, is the difference between city and countryside that big safetywise? If things get as bad as mobs forming and law breaking down, what difference will living 50 km away from the next city (which I guess is about the furthest distance from the next bigger settlemen you could reach here) make?

If you live in the city, make sure you have an escape plan.
This whole “escape” strategy irritates me though - what about the people who have no place to escape to? Should those who do just leave them behind? Just thinking.

[DLS]

I don't think it is a good idea to run away from your problems. Learn to survive wherever you may be. Most of us could lose a few pounds anyway, so I'm sure a few days on limit grub will not kill any of us. It does rain, you could collect water, there probably is some source of water within walking distance from where you live. Ditch, creek, river, lake, there are different things you can keep on hand which will purify water to make it safe to drink. Light a fire, boil it. Lots of natural edible plants out there too if you do a little research now, to prepare your self for living off the land.
So quit crying about doom and gloom. STOCK up and PREPARE.

[rvijay]

Disclaimer: I am not here to put down or create negative emotions for anyone. I am just here to encourage others to prepare and benefit from the related info./experience others have here.

Thanks to the info. here, yesterday I rushed to my local Co-op when I had a chance and stocked up Quinoa, this felt good and is much appreciated.

[rvijay]

And waste more fuel e. g. to commute into the city to work as long as disaster has not yet struck?
Also, in a densely populated and rather small country, is the difference between city and countryside that big safetywise? If things get as bad as mobs forming and law breaking down, what difference will living 50 km away from the next city (which I guess is about the furthest distance from the next bigger settlemen you could reach here) make?

This whole “escape” strategy irritates me though - what about the people who have no place to escape to? Should those who do just leave them behind? Just thinking.

One can have just pay for storage in a remote location. This is a good idea that I didn't consider before.

If 50 kms is unsafe, then get away 100 kms, 200 kms., how far you need to get, to be safe.

Regarding, others who have no place to escape, it is very sad but true. If they don't plan and don't execute it, then yes they will face the challenges. However, it was their decision not to prepare/move. Answering your questions is a good learning experience.

Look what happened after Katrina in New Orleans. Several were forced to move on foot with nothing. Isn't it better to prepare and relocate with resources in advance ?

[rvijay]

26 Things You Can Do RIGHT NOW To Manage Your Anxiety
http://www.peakoilblues.com/blog/?p=181

[Quinoa]

If 50 kms is unsafe, then get away 100 kms, 200 kms., how far you need to get, to be safe.
No, we misunderstood each other I think.
You said relocate to the countryside because cities are not safe, and I doubted that the countryside is always so much safer e. g. because in a densely populated country like Germany, the countryside is never more than maybe 50 km away from the next city!

Regarding, others who have no place to escape, it is very sad but true. If they don't plan and don't execute it, then yes they will face the challenges. However, it was their decision not to prepare/move.
I doubt that it is automatically “their decision” not to prepare/move though.
You might say that about someone who knows about these scenarios and advice and is affluent yet still chooses to not follow this trend of stocking up big scale and renting an escape place or storage room in the countryside.
But there are many people even in affluent societies who do not have these resources either financially or intellectually or else, and therefore are not even in a position to decide to prepare or move.

Look what happened after Katrina in New Orleans. Several were forced to move on foot with nothing. Isn't it better to prepare and relocate with resources in advance ?
I assume that most of those who could afford to prepare or leave and had places to go to did do so, but I’m also sure that some who could have escaped easily stayed anyway and helped others.
The people however who left New Orleans on foot with nothing but what they could carry or who sat on the roofs of their houses hoping to protect and save whatever they could, were poor - like many if not most of the inhabitants of that city before Katrina hit.

26 Things You Can Do RIGHT NOW To Manage Your Anxiety
http://www.peakoilblues.com/blog/?p=181
A good list of ways to simplify daily life.
Many of these already go without saying for me anyway, without ever having thought about “disaster anxiety”! No. 23 is a very good one too, and I’m seriously working on No. 14 (so far without much success though)

[MrFalafel]

Worst June for Dow since 1930. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-stocks-plunge-worst-june/story.aspx?guid=%7BD2B0CDC8%2D4960%2D45F2%2D87E5%2 D8BA7DE058EFF%7D&dist=TNMostRead

We're already making comparisons to the Great Depression. And analysts at Societe Generale are sayng this is only the beginning: http://www.citywire.co.uk/personal/-/news/markets-companies-and-funds/content.aspx?ID=306808

[rvijay]

Yesterday I went to healthfood store and stockedup on Quinoa/TVP but there are so many other items there, googling for them all is not simple. Is there a good health food store thread here ? What other items from the health food store apart from TVP, Quinoa are worthy that one can stockup on ? Thanks

[rvijay]

No, we misunderstood each other I think.
You said relocate to the countryside because cities are not safe, and I doubted that the countryside is always so much safer e. g. because in a densely populated country like Germany, the countryside is never more than maybe 50 km away from the next city!

Wow !! Had no idea about this. In this case, exit the Country even if needed, bottom line find a safe location.


I doubt that it is automatically “their decision” not to prepare/move though.

Help yourself as much as possible first. Then if posible help a few others. Pray to God for the rest. We didn't create all these issues, so we can't solve all these issues. It is going to be a mess/turmoil, we all will need to learn to live with it and not affect us psychologically.

http://peakoilblues.com/

[Quinoa]

In this case, exit the Country even if needed
Um, well, yeah… Sorry, but I am not much of a runaway type. Also, I am safest where my family is. No, we are unlikely to exit the country together then. It’s actually quite nice here most of the time.

Help yourself as much as possible first. Then if posible help a few others. Pray to God for the rest.
Imho it is exactly that order of priorities (first myself, then a few others, then maybe God) which got us into this situation in the first place…

[rvijay]

Um, well, yeah… Sorry, but I am not much of a runaway type. Also, I am safest where my family is. No, we are unlikely to exit the country together then. It’s actually quite nice here most of the time.

Imho it is exactly that order of priorities (first myself, then a few others, then maybe God) which got us into this situation in the first place…

I am glad you already know what is best for you and have already made your decisions. Best Wishes :)

[flvegnewbie]

I found a great food storage website: http://www.simplylivingsmart.com

You have to sign up for it but it's free. It looks like most of the basic food storage advice is vegetarian and I'm thinking there's probably vegan subs for most of the powdered dairy.



Thank-you so much for sharing this site with us!!!:wayne:
It's been super informative and I've learned alot from watching the videos.

They also have several links to other companies who provide long-term storage solutions and also lots of emergency type kits, deydrated & heat with hot water meals.

I've been watching & reading through some things and it's given me lots of good ideas!

I'll mention again that I think this has been a really great thread!
I also think regardless of your living situation/finances everyone can do something.
Even if it's something as small as buying an extra can or two of veggies when shopping, all the way up to planting a garden, putting together an emergency kit and having enough food put away for the next 2 years to survive on.

If things get worse (or even if they don't), it's never going to hurt to have a couple extra groceries, or bottled watered sitting around. It will eventually be used.

Here are some other websites that gives some thought provoking things to think about to have on hand:

http://hubpages.com/hub/How_to_Create_a_Stockpile_of_Food_-_for_Little_Money

http://www.endtimesreport.com/food.html

I appreciate all the info., discussions, and web links, it's been very informative and thought provoking!:up:


Michelle

[rvijay]

CONCENTRATION CAMPS HERE IN THE U.S.A. PART 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RJeibDkQdY&feature=related

Comments: There are several such videos on You Tube regarding concentration camps in the USA. What does everyone here think about them ?

[rvijay]

Being really honest here, while this thread is helpful/vital, I am the first person who wishes that there was no need for this thread and that it didn't exist at all. Some of the situations concerning this thread are pretty pathetic to say the least. If there was no need for a thread like this, but for the friendship development thread, I will hardly be here, enjoying my time cycling, watching nature or visiting a friend etc., Felt that I had to be honest about it and admit it.

[rvijay]

This is from a majority Omni group. Makes one wonder what is going on.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkBuilders_org/message/8514

Whew ! Whew !


(Contains Graphic Images of Animals)

[mazikeen]

Yesterday I went to healthfood store and stockedup on Quinoa/TVP but there are so many other items there, googling for them all is not simple. Is there a good health food store thread here ? What other items from the health food store apart from TVP, Quinoa are worthy that one can stockup on ? Thanks

Well, apart from the obvious rice and beans, nutritional yeast keeps well, and is very rich in protein. You might want to consider grains, too, as long as you keep them in the fridge/freezer, so they'll last longer.

[rvijay]

Well, apart from the obvious rice and beans, nutritional yeast keeps well, and is very rich in protein. You might want to consider grains, too, as long as you keep them in the fridge/freezer, so they'll last longer.

Thank you for this info. I lookedup info. on nutritional yeast and miso also. Will try to get these, next time I go to the store.

[Quinoa]

This is from a majority Omni group. Makes one wonder what is going on.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkBuilders_org/message/8514

Whew ! Whew !
As nice as it may be that (omni?) people concerned about animal rights post in an omni group, next time if you link to something like this (if necessary at all) please include a warning that there are pictures of severely abused/wounded animals on that site. Not exactly what I and maybe a few others would expect to be linked to from a thread in the frugal forum…

No offense.

[Coney]

...many poor in various countries who really cannot afford to buy even the simplest foods anymore - not only but also (30% of food shortage issues are because of this I just read*) because rich countries choose to burn what could be food as fuel.
[/SIZE]

Agreed. The one main thing that would help the grain shortage around the world is if people stopped eating beef. We all know that it takes 20 pounds of grain to make 1lbs. of beef. Then there's all the transportation fuel to haul the grain to the cattle...

World, Quit Meat!

[rvijay]

Folks, this is just my opinion. When all of a sudden most omni's start behaving like they are PETA, then environmentally things gave gone waayyy too far and it almost is game over it appears.

[Quinoa]

Folks, this is just my opinion. When all of a sudden most omni's start behaving like they are PETA, then environmentally things gave gone waayyy too far and it almost is game over it appears.
But from where do you get the impression that most omnis behave like Peta? Can't say that I get anything like this in real life or online (not that I would appreciate it if most veg*ns acted like Peta either, but that's a different thread).
Environmental awareness in Germany for example is much higher than in the US (in Canada, from what remember and have heard since, it is higher than in the US too), and it is rising (finally the "animal agriculture" issue is slowly getting mentioned here in debates about climate change etc.), but I haven't noticed any dramatic change/increase in environmental or animal rights awareness recently.