Cardio vs Strength for legs

[Earthly Delight]

Hey--so every day I do 1hr cardio (hr 160 to 170) and 1hr strength, give or take. I rarely however do any strength training for my legs, unless its incorporated into a strength training exercise for my core or arms. I just feel that with an hour of running every day my legs get enough of a workout.

Is this faulty logic? Are there parts of my legs I should care about and others I don't need to worry about? I mainly do the elliptical really, in case if you want to know what sort of muscles I'm working during the cardio. I like to put relatively high resistance.

Thanks

[Dirty Martini]

Depends on what you want to do for your legs. Do you want to build strength or endurance? Your cardio is going to develop your slow-twitch (type-I) muscle fibers and improve your muscle endurance. Type-I muscles actually get smaller as your endurance increases (and your type-II muscles don't get any bigger unless you're adding in high-intensity training), so if you're doing endurance and losing fat, you'll probably see a reduction in size all around.

Strength-building exercises, on the other hand, build the size of your type-II muscles. The added benefit is that your body requires more calories to build those muscles AND to keep them developed. So your RMR goes up and you develop more muscle definition. If you're NOT losing fat at the same time, you're going to see a slight increase in limb circumference (and a lot of women mistake this for "bulking" because they're building muscle under their fat). If you're losing fat as well, you're going to get smaller but you're also going to get "curvier" on your limbs and trunk (rounded shoulders, curvier arms, curvier legs, smaller waist, etc).

It's up to you what your goals are.

Read this for more info on weights vs. cardio: http://www.musclewithattitude.com/article/training/step_away_from_the_treadmill&cr=
(here if you want just the text - http://www.musclewithattitude.com/portal_includes/articles/figure2008/08-FIG001-training.html )

BTW, you can do weights AND your cardio. What you'll get is an in-between of strength & endurance. You'll increase both. A lot of endurance runners do high-intensity training to develop their type-II muscle fibers which increase VO2-max and speed. And the low-intensity training, of course, helps them become more efficient at running long distances.

[Earthly Delight]

oh sure, of course I'm gonna keep up my cardio, I just was wondering if instead of alternating day by day arms and torso, if I should make it a three day cycle? Or maybe just you know, once or twice a week legs, and the other 5 or 6 upper body?

What do I want? I am unsure, lol... healthy good lookingness? Um... the body of a superstar? :P

[KellyBon]

I'm a runner. I always thought that was enough for my legs. The last 3 years I've ran 4 marathons and I lost track of how many half marathons. This last year I have started to do strength training 2 times a week on my legs. I've noticed that my legs are much stronger and I seem to have less injuries. In the past I've had some issues with my IT band and sciatica. So far this year my legs feel stronger then ever. 2 days a week I do legs and abs, and 2 days a week I do arms and abs. I just paid for a six week series of pilates reformer, I start next week.

[Dirty Martini]

What do I want? I am unsure, lol... healthy good lookingness? Um... the body of a superstar? :P

Then you should lift weights. ;)

I'd suggest alternating cardo days & weights days, but that's just me... so...

option 1: 1.5 hours in the gym, cardio + weights
- Do your weights first (1/2 hour)
- Do barbell squats, weighted lunges, push-ups, swiss-ball crunches, deadlifts, rows, and bench presses.
- Do your cardio for an hour.

option 2: 1 hour in the gym, alternating cardio/weights
- cardio 3x week (1 hour)
- weights 2-3x week, again doing compound movements (1 hour)

option 3: varying time in the gym, using high-intensity intervals for legs
- upper body workout (using freeweights, not machines) every workout
- 20 minutes of high-intensity intervals
- 20 minutes of steady-state cardio
(or, replace steady-state with intervals for one or two of your cardio sessions during the week)

some resources on the exercises I'd recommend:
http://www.body-building-resource.com/bb37.shtml
http://exercise.about.com/cs/exerciseworkouts/l/blshortwkouts.htm
http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_100/125b_fitness_tip.html (except leg presses - don't do those. do squats instead.)

ignore the male-oriented "bodybuilding" context with those links - I've been doing these types of exercises for 4 months now & am getting smaller - I have lost 10 pounds and gone from a size 12 to a size 8. You won't bulk as long as you're losing fat, trust me. :)

Your muscles need time to rest & rebuild, so I'd do at least 1 day of no gym per week. At least.

[starling]

I don't get enough muscle definition from running alone. Granted, I do wushu, so that helps, but I like to look really muscular, not just lean.

One of the simplest things you can do to supplement your running is just to do squats, with or without weights. They're a good compound exercise and you'll get shapely thighs. If you do them with lunges, you'll get a nice bum too!

[Earthly Delight]

Then you should lift weights. ;)

I'd suggest alternating cardo days & weights days, but that's just me... so...

option 1: 1.5 hours in the gym, cardio + weights
- Do your weights first (1/2 hour)
- Do barbell squats, weighted lunges, push-ups, swiss-ball crunches, deadlifts, rows, and bench presses.
- Do your cardio for an hour.

option 2: 1 hour in the gym, alternating cardio/weights
- cardio 3x week (1 hour)
- weights 2-3x week, again doing compound movements (1 hour)

option 3: varying time in the gym, using high-intensity intervals for legs
- upper body workout (using freeweights, not machines) every workout
- 20 minutes of high-intensity intervals
- 20 minutes of steady-state cardio
(or, replace steady-state with intervals for one or two of your cardio sessions during the week)

some resources on the exercises I'd recommend:
http://www.body-building-resource.com/bb37.shtml
http://exercise.about.com/cs/exerciseworkouts/l/blshortwkouts.htm
http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_100/125b_fitness_tip.html (except leg presses - don't do those. do squats instead.)

ignore the male-oriented "bodybuilding" context with those links - I've been doing these types of exercises for 4 months now & am getting smaller - I have lost 10 pounds and gone from a size 12 to a size 8. You won't bulk as long as you're losing fat, trust me. :)

Your muscles need time to rest & rebuild, so I'd do at least 1 day of no gym per week. At least.


I may not look it from photos, but I can't afford to lose another size or two, at least not around the hips. A lot of brands dont make underwear small enough for me--It really confuses me because I know a lot of girls who are much thinner than I am, and if I'm an XS what on earth are they?!

My upper body is a size 8 though, so I could deal with losing some size there... I don't know how much of it is losable as the tightest spot for me on clothing is always the bust and ribcage.

Anyway, thanks for the links--I have been using weights lately so I will definately step up my program!

[Brandon]

I'm a runner. I always thought that was enough for my legs. The last 3 years I've ran 4 marathons and I lost track of how many half marathons. This last year I have started to do strength training 2 times a week on my legs. I've noticed that my legs are much stronger and I seem to have less injuries. In the past I've had some issues with my IT band and sciatica. So far this year my legs feel stronger then ever. 2 days a week I do legs and abs, and 2 days a week I do arms and abs. I just paid for a six week series of pilates reformer, I start next week.

I'm also a runner, and the only other training I've done historically is biking. I've been curious as to what building leg muscles would do for running purposes lately. Or at least it's entered my mind.


I don't get enough muscle definition from running alone. Granted, I do wushu, so that helps, but I like to look really muscular, not just lean.

One of the simplest things you can do to supplement your running is just to do squats, with or without weights. They're a good compound exercise and you'll get shapely thighs. If you do them with lunges, you'll get a nice bum too!

I'm not specifically wanting more definition or mass in my legs. I prefer them being leaner, as I've always tended to have larger quads.

My mindset has always been that I've always heard that muscle weighs more, so that would mean more muscle = more weight to carry while running. I realize that's possibly not good logic since more muscle = more strength.

I'd be curious to hear thoughts on this from others.

[starling]

I'm also a runner, and the only other training I've done historically is biking. I've been curious as to what building leg muscles would do for running purposes lately. Or at least it's entered my mind.

The only thing I can think of is that more muscle would make you faster - you know how sprinters and speed skaters have gigantic thighs. I don't know how bigger muscles affects distance running though.

Maybe that's why I'm such a lousy distance runner. I need muscular legs for wushu, but other than that I just prefer them aesthetically.

[Dirty Martini]

Brandon: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-263-266-7522-0,00.html


It's no secret that weight training isn't your top priority. If it were, you'd be reading a different magazine (and probably spending more time flexing in front of the mirror). But if it's not part of your fitness program at all, you're missing out on more than buff biceps. Strength training is a smart supplement to a runner's roadwork because it strengthens muscles and joints, which can improve race times and decrease injury risk. "Running faster is easier if your whole body is working with you," says Jim Fischer, head coach of men's cross-country and track at the University of Delaware. "A runner with strong legs but weak arm muscles and weak core muscles will always be slower than a runner with total-body fitness."

I have a lot of respect for Adam Campbell; this is a good article.

[Dirty Martini]

I may not look it from photos, but I can't afford to lose another size or two, at least not around the hips. A lot of brands dont make underwear small enough for me--It really confuses me because I know a lot of girls who are much thinner than I am, and if I'm an XS what on earth are they?!

If you have a low body fat %, then you may get a little bigger in circumference, or not change at all. My comment was geared more toward someone with 25%+ body fat. Most notably, your shoulders will get a bit broader/rounder, your biceps will round out a bit, and your thighs will get slightly bigger. Oh, and you get a nice round butt too. :D

[Earthly Delight]

lol, im small but fat.. does that make sense? I'm about 26% fat (my analysis wasnt too long ago, though I've been doing a LOT of exercise since then, I seriously doubt I changed my body composition by more than 2% in two or three weeks..).

A round butt wouldnt be bad--it would make underwear shopping a bajillion times easier.. plus it'd look good. :P I have no doubt that exercise will make me look good--muscular OR lean, I really dont mind, I recognize both as very attractive; it's the general aura of "look at me I'm healthy and fit and could totally survive a lion attack, rawr" that's attractive. :P

[Brandon]

Brandon: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-263-266-7522-0,00.html



I have a lot of respect for Adam Campbell; this is a good article.

Thanks for the link! I've bookmarked it to read a little bit later. :)

[SinisterMama]

I know this is kind of an older thread, but I just was bored and reading through and wanted to say something.

If you have a smaller lower body and larger uppper body and want to make it more porportional, then weight training on the lower body (hips, thighs, gluts & legs) will definitely help you to achieve a little more mass in those areas.

If your main goal is to get a trimmer (leaner) uppper body then you should be doing higher reps w/ lower weight for all of your upper body strength training. Then on the lower body you should build up the weight and do lower reps.

I usually do a pyramid type lifting routine for my lower body where I use 3 sets of weights. 9 lbs. 15 lbs. and 20 lbs. (I am 5'5" and 120 lbs)
My routine includes...
Squats, forward lunges, and side lying leg lifts
For the squats I do one rep w/ the 15 lbs., then one w/ the 20lbs, then another w/ the 15 lbs.
I then do lunges using the same rep and weight pyramid.
i usually shake out and sip water for a couple minutes then get on the floor and do the side lying leg lifts with the 9 lbs. I use both dumbells for a total of 18lbs and cross the handles and rest them on the thigh while I do a couple sets of leg lifts, then I switch to the other side and repeat.
I then stretch and then walk it off while sipping more water.

Hopefully that will give you an idea of what to do to build your legs. Oh and by the way, I only do this twice a week (I also do cardio 2-3 times a week and pilates for core and uppper body twice a week) and my legs are lean but not bulky at all. Actually my legs seem a bit leaner, but the buns are definitely looking a bit perkier (I was just telling my husband that I've been getting a lot of wedgies so I think my but is getting bigger). :hamster:

[SinisterMama]

That last part may have been a little TMI for some people... my bad, just trying to help! :)