weird health problems after becoming vegan

[mysticaries78]

Hi everyone. I switched from lacto-ovo vegetarian to vegan back in September. In about October, I deveoped horrible knee pain that is still going on - I was in physical therapy for 'patellofemoral pain syndrome', but recently found out through an MRI that i have degenerative cartilage damage (chondromalacia) and patellar tendonosis. I think the pain from that has led to having other knee/leg problems from walking funny, like hamstring tendonitis. I can seriously barely walk some days, and have had to stop all forms of stretching or exercise on my legs. This is one problem, but lately I have noticed a pattern that I seem to be injuring myself SO easily doing things that never bothered me before.

I've been doing yoga for years, and have never had a serious injury. I think that the knee tendonitis may have been brought on from too much astanga yoga, but the other night I sprained (BAD) my rotator cuffs on both shoulders just doing fish pose. I've also been having pain in my elbow joints. It feels like all of my ligaments are softening or are weakened or something. Lots of people keep blaming my diet, which i've blown off till now, but I know something weird and different is going on w/ my body, and the only thing i can think of that i am doing different than before is that I am now vegan.

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be going on...I think i eat a fairly balanced diet, for example, usually fruit or oats in the morning, a salad w/ oil and nuts at lunch, fruit, and pasta and veggies for dinner. I take B-12 supplements and complete vitamins, and use nutritional yeast flakes on my food at least a few times a week. I am just really scared. I don't want to go back to eating cheese or eggs, (and i don't see what kind of nutriets they would be supplying that i am missing) but I am getting desperate to do something to see if it will help.

[rabid_child]

I don't know how old you are, but this may just be one of those "getting older" things. I never had joint problems until I was in my mid 20's (and I've been veg since I was 15), and suddenly I kept getting tendonitis in various places. I had to get a cortisone shot in my shoulder, the others one got better on their own.

You could try getting a vegetarian glucosamine supplement to help cushion your joints. Are you getting any Omega-3's like flax oil, hemp oil, walnuts, canola oil? They're natural anti-inflammatories.

[Libellula]

from what i have read, it sounds like getting older and also like not getting enough food. A salad with oil and nuts would fill me up for about 10 minutes after lunch, and then I would be starving!

[nilrecurring]

Hi mysticaries. I know that some people don't have to mix proteins at every meal, but I think it is a good idea if you're doing weight bearing exercises. I grind three tablespoons of flaxseed every morning and add it to my oatmeal for extra protein and EFAs. If you can, find a recipe for complete protein cornbread or muffins and add one at lunch or dinner time.

I've also been drinking fresh hemp milk lately, which isn't too expensive if you make it at home. Amazon.com has three packs of nutiva shelled hempseed with 10oz per bag. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it doesn't take much to make hemp milk. I generally just blend 1/4 of a cup of hempseed, 2 cups of water, and 2 teaspoons of sugar. It's an easy 14g of protein. I've made four batches and have yet to use half of one of the bags.

[Ettienne]

So you have been to a doctor and had, had an MRI...What did the doctor say about what the causes of the deneration might be?

[Lucious]

I think it takes more than a few months for your cartilage to degenerate.

[mysticaries78]

So you have been to a doctor and had, had an MRI...What did the doctor say about what the causes of the deneration might be?

He said he didn't know. It's not just that that's the problem though, it's that I'm injuring myself really easily and having pain and weakness in many of my tendons/ligaments (for which he also had no explanation. I didn't tell him about my diet because I knew what he would say.) I can tell something weird is going on. It's not just getting older, because it was a drastic change in a matter of weeks/months. I am in debilitating pain and went from doing a highly vigorous daily ashtanga practice to not even being able to touch my toes without feeling like my tendons were going to rip off.

I went to an acupuncturist, and he said he thought much of it was from not getting enough protein. I thought I was getting enough from nuts and seeds and veggies/grains. So many things say not to worry about protein deficiency that I never really considered it. I guess I've got to look at it more closely.

[mysticaries78]

Hi mysticaries. I know that some people don't have to mix proteins at every meal, but I think it is a good idea if you're doing weight bearing exercises. I grind three tablespoons of flaxseed every morning and add it to my oatmeal for extra protein and EFAs. If you can, find a recipe for complete protein cornbread or muffins and add one at lunch or dinner time.

I've also been drinking fresh hemp milk lately, which isn't too expensive if you make it at home. Amazon.com has three packs of nutiva shelled hempseed with 10oz per bag. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it doesn't take much to make hemp milk. I generally just blend 1/4 of a cup of hempseed, 2 cups of water, and 2 teaspoons of sugar. It's an easy 14g of protein. I've made four batches and have yet to use half of one of the bags.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[KellyFlower]

Hey Mysticaries, I have the same exact knee problems, sorta. Apparently when I was born my mother said my legs were pointing outwards and she used to do little exercises for me so they went "normal". Which they are fine now, anyhow, I can to this day hyperextend my knees and twist them around so my toes are where my heels are, its a great trick to freak people out, lol. But I went to a doctor one day because I was always having knee problems, never played sports really, I do yoga though, and he diagnosed me with chondromalacia. I did at one time start taking glucosamine vitamins which helped a lot, but you have to take them everyday forever for them to work I heard, and I got lazy so I stopped. But it helped with my knee pain. If ever it hurts always try ice never heat. But usually I maintain my knees, by no running, that makes it worse, I do wrap them in ace bandages if I bikeride though, also leg exercises like lunges and squats, and lots of stretching keeps my knees okay. Usually I can always tell if it's going to rain the next day b/c my knees start to ache! I shhould be a weathergirl, lol! Sorry for your knee pain, I hope this helps!

[kpickell]

I think it takes more than a few months for your cartilage to degenerate.
Why would your cartilage degenerate period on a vegan diet? ::???

[Lucious]

Why would your cartilage degenerate period on a vegan diet? ::???

I think it's that general assumption that when a vegan gets sick it's blamed on their diet, but when a meat eater gets sick... it's just genetics or stress.

[mysticaries78]

Why would your cartilage degenerate period on a vegan diet? ::???

Uhhh...I have no idea, i guess that's why I was asking??????? To see if anyone knew of any related deficiencies that might occur on a vegan diet, since that's when my symptoms started?

Sorry, don't know what I was thinking posting a health question here. I don't think I was 'blaming' this on my diet, i'm just in a desperate state to find some way to address a very serious problem.

[jeorge]

mysticaries78

Listen...what I have to say is very important. At age 25, I switched to a complete vegan diet. I read many books regarding veganism and vegetarianism. I was careful to get a full spectrum of nutrients - vitamins, minerals, fats, proteins, carbs, etc. from only vegetarian sources. After 6 months, I had to stop long distance running due to pain in my legs. Two months later, I had to stop yoga and hang up my bicycle. Finally, I could no longer go on long walks. I seeked medical help from different doctors: osteopaths, rheumatologists, and nutritionists. No one could tell me why my tendons, ligaments, and bones were in so much pain or why they had become so debilitated.

I continued my diet because my rheumatologist diagnosed me with lupus and fibromyalgia, and he did not believe diet was the cause. Because I could no longer bear weight and was limping just to walk across a room, x-rays, a bone density test, and a nuclear bone scan were performed. It was determined that my bones were porous - 2 points away from normal bone mass - osteoporosis at 26 years old! I also had bone activity (micro fractures that did not show on x-ray but did appear on the nuclear bone scan). Finally, the x-rays showed periostitis - inflammation around bone. Doctors did not know why these physiological changes had occurred, but knew I was in trouble and in pain. Furthermore, I felt the same problems with stretching as you did...tendons were tight, weak, and painful.

The condition worsened. After 3 months of not healing, my doctor requested that I use a wheel chair part-time. Due to my weakened arm joints and tendons, I experienced difficulty and pain pushing the chair. My life was drastically changed, and I was unable to do most of the things that I had been physically capable of.

My doctor claimed that my bone mass would never return but indicated that the bone loss could be halted with medications. I became discouraged by doctors. At that time, a vegan friend began having some of the same problems, but he started eating fish and chicken. His symptoms improved within a few months. So, I finally began adding some animal proteins back into my diet. I was 27 years old at that time. It took me about 6 months just to get used to adding 1 serving of meat every other day to a dinner. By the end of the year I was eating animal products more regularly.

Two years after changing my diet to include some animal products and more fats (olive oil, eggs, fish, chicken, and occasionally red meat and dairy) my bone density improved by an entire point. I no longer had osteoporosis, but osteopenia. My doc said, "Whatever you are doing, keep doing it." By the following year, I no longer needed the wheel chair, as the micro fractures finally healed. So it took 2 years after a change in diet for improvements to manifest positive results. I was 30 years old. At that point my doctors believed that lupus was going into remission and warned me of its return. But after 3 more years (5 years after diet change) (33 years old) I could walk daily without limiting distance and feeling pain. Finally at 36, I was able to long distance walk, rollerblade, and lift light weights. At 38, I am jogging again, am lifting heavier weights, play guitar and piano. My doctor now believes that diet was the factor and admits that my diagnosis of lupus was inappropriate.

I am healthier than I was ten years ago! I eat an abundance of fruits and vegetables, eat the right kinds of fat, and include plenty of proteins and complex carbohydrates. Sometimes I just eat whatever friends and family put on the table.

I believe that each body is different. Some can thrive on a vegetarian diet, and some need animal products to retain healthy tissues. You should listen to your body. Although there are many good books and good doctors, not enough information is known for anyone to become so strict that he or she loses the ability to listen to the inherent wisdom of the body. I could easily see in your message posted that your body is trying to talk to you! I commend you for caring about yourself, and I hope that you regain your health.

If you are going to be strict, be strict about simple sugars, wrong kinds of fat, dead calories, and processed foods.

Best to you,

PS - This last summer I ran a 5k in which some of the women who placed in their age category were in their 60s and 70s! Do not let anyone tell that your symptoms are just age-related.

Michelle (jeorge)

[kpickell]

Uhhh...I have no idea, i guess that's why I was asking??????? To see if anyone knew of any related deficiencies that might occur on a vegan diet, since that's when my symptoms started?

Sorry, don't know what I was thinking posting a health question here. I don't think I was 'blaming' this on my diet, i'm just in a desperate state to find some way to address a very serious problem.
I'm sorry mysitcaries, you're question was absolutely fine! There's no reason you would have known one way or another. I was just confused by one of the responses that made it sound like veganism would "eventually" break down your cartilage, just not so soon, and I wanted to clarify that it's not the case. I didn't mean to take away from your question.

[RunsWithFoxes]

mysticaries78

<snip>

My doctor claimed that my bone mass would never return but indicated that the bone loss could be halted with medications. I became discouraged by doctors. At that time, a vegan friend began having some of the same problems, but he started eating fish and chicken. His symptoms improved within a few months. So, I finally began adding some animal proteins back into my diet. I was 27 years old at that time. It took me about 6 months just to get used to adding 1 serving of meat every other day to a dinner. By the end of the year I was eating animal products more regularly.

Two years after changing my diet to include some animal products and more fats (olive oil, eggs, fish, chicken, and occasionally red meat and dairy) my bone density improved by an entire point. I no longer had osteoporosis, but osteopenia. My doc said, "Whatever you are doing, keep doing it." By the following year, I no longer needed the wheel chair, as the micro fractures finally healed. So it took 2 years after a change in diet for improvements to manifest positive results. I was 30 years old. At that point my doctors believed that lupus was going into remission and warned me of its return. But after 3 more years (5 years after diet change) (33 years old) I could walk daily without limiting distance and feeling pain. Finally at 36, I was able to long distance walk, rollerblade, and lift light weights. At 38, I am jogging again, am lifting heavier weights, play guitar and piano. My doctor now believes that diet was the factor and admits that my diagnosis of lupus was inappropriate.

<snip>

Michelle (jeorge)

1. Correlation does not imply causation.
2. You aren't a scientist.
3. You aren't too knowledgeable about nutrition ("animal protein" - what's that? Let's talk amino acids, OK?)
4. For every anecdotal experience supporting one hypothesis, you'll find another anecdotal experience supporting another. These anecdotal experiences simply aren't too useful.
5. The human body is extremely complex, and is subject to all sorts of maladies, many poorly understood.
6. If you go through 5 additional complete cycles of eating carnie / eating vegan, and have exactly the same health experiences each cycle, then maybe you'll have something useful to say.
7. The words 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' have a lot less meaning than they are presumed to have, because such a huge variety of actual diets fit under these labels. In a meat and dairy obsessed culture, going veg seems like a big deal, but it really isn't.
8. Most likely, your doctor knows little about nutrition. The topic gets little attention in a typical modern medical curriculum.

(there are many more points I could make that you won't like, but you get the picture...)

:sunny:

[*AHIMSA*]

:smitten:

[Dvin]

The first thing I would do is make sure you are getting enough fat in your diet. Also, up the protein for awhile to see if it makes a difference. I'm not sure if there is a vegan Glucosomin on the market but you might check it out.

Change Doctors if yours isn't giving you complete answers. Most Doc's are only train to treat symptons and do not practice preventive medicine...You might also visit another web site. I don't think it would be correct to list other web sites here but if you want to PM me I will give you a address to check out. It's not vegan but it is run by a holistic Doctor...M.D. and they delve into problems like yours. I went there for some answers with a rotator cuff problem.

Dvin

[jasperred]

hi, i was wondering if u ever resolved the problem or found the source. was it not enough protein?