African American Women & the Election.

[Kenickie]

So, I read this article that was originally an interview on democracy now! with amy goodman or whatever, it was a debate between gloria steinem and melissa harris who is a professor at princeton. Gloria got her ass kicked, but it is really ridiculous to see how people are touting the "my group is more oppressed" card or what not, and black women are really getting the brunt of it. clinton's campaign is saying, hey, you with us sister? and obama's campaign is saying, hey, you with us sister? and it's a little much. Personally, i think most of my everyday problems are because of my race, not really my gender, but it seems like alot of people are forgetting that those lines intersect in the most intense ways. you can't seperate my race from my gender. I'm very much a black woman, not either or.
So, my question is (especially to other black women),
do you feel like you are understood(i.e. your "issues" in every day life) by either clinton's campaign or obama's?
are your issues more because of your gender or your race?
and to women, do you think that clinton can infact say her 'experience' started as a first lady of arkansas, when really she was just an extension of her husband?

here's the article by the way. it's fascinating if you just skip over all of goodman's interrupting remarks.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/14/race_and_gender_in_presidential_politics

tell me what you think this election is going to unearth in people! is it worse to be racist or sexist?

[kpickell]

I don't know... All I know is that it is a damn shame that women and minorities have so few important role models to look up to. It says a lot to a kid to grow up in a country where every single president is white and male. Nobody wants to talk about it, but there are unspoken glass ceilings that are made very clear. Oh everyone will deny it, but there are lots of men furious that "a woman (ugh)" is running for President. And the mass emails I got forwarded from my grandfather stating that Obama is a BLACK MUSLIM all caps make it clear that people are furious that a black man is running for President. So yes, I do refuse to vote for Yet Another White Male status quo candidate. People will say that I'm pandering (irony of ironies is that some will even say I'm racist or sexist because of it!) and that I should vote on the issues (which I'm not discounting), but I think it is more important than anything else what is Not Being Spoken during this election than what is, and all the candidates know this.

[kpickell]

*the email I referenced in my post above

Who is Barack Obama?

Something that should be considered when you make your choice.

If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all your contacts...it is very scary to think of what could lie ahead for us here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.

We checked this out on " snopes.com". It is factual. Check for yourself.

Who is Barack Obama?

Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a BLACK MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white Athiest from Wichita, Kansas.

Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school."

Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that he is not a radical.


Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL ISLAMIC teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.

Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegience nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches.

Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy. The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!!

Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this man leading our country?...... NOT ME!!!

[Tame]

I don't think the race/sex of the president is that important, considering there has been fewer than 50 of them.

And yes, you are just as racist as anyone else when you make race a criteria for your vote.

[vigilant20]

Wow, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with tame.

[kpickell]

If it makes it easier for your to ignore reality go right ahead and pretend men and women, black, white and hispanic are all treated equally and that role models play no role.

I haven't completely decided who I'm voting for between Obama and Hillary. Although I'm leaning towards Obama, my gf and I discuss this topic a lot because women's issues are important to her.
Because I'm not a woman it's perhaps harder for me to see from her perspective, although I do understand since gender and race are in so many ways the same conversation.

[Tame]

If it makes it easier for your to ignore reality go right ahead and pretend men and women, black, white and hispanic are all treated equally and that role models play no role.

You don't put people in positions of power to be role models. And BTW, the color of one's skin or the junk in their undies doesn't automatically make someone a role model.
Someone has to be pretty white bread to think that electing Obama president will suddenly change the lives of black children.


Because I'm not a woman it's perhaps harder for me to see from her perspective, although I do understand since gender and race are in so many ways the same conversation.

No, they really aren't.

[kpickell]

You don't put people in positions of power to be role models.Then it's an unintended consequence.

[Koalaborg]

I get so annoyed whenever I hear people refer to bill clinton as the first black president. like that genius andrew young who said recently that bill clinton was more black than Obama. What?!

I think people in this country are willing to elect either a black president or a female president. I know I am. of course, I don't agree with either obama's or clinton's politics, so neither are getting my vote. but it's not because of race or gender.

[Kenickie]

although obama becoming president will have a sudden impact on black children, but it won't be like...i'm not sure, but it's not going to go unnoticed or unappreciated by them.

glass breaking, or something?

[Tame]

Then it's an unintended consequence.

You are using it as a reason to justify a vote. That is ludicrous.

[Chrysalis]

I don't understand enough of the US political system to really comment, but I am wondering if visible minorities have other positions of political power that allow them to have their voice heard even if they do not become president? For example members of parliament (if you have that?) or party members?

[kpickell]

Well both Obama and Clinton are US Senators, which is similar to being a member of parliament I think... but it's not the same. It's like saying "we'll let you people get this high in leadership, just don't try and go any farther."

[Kenickie]

I don't understand enough of the US political system to really comment, but I am wondering if visible minorities have other positions of political power that allow them to have their voice heard even if they do not become president? For example members of parliament (if you have that?) or party members?

there are minorities that serve in congress, but i haven't heard many minority oriented bills or whatever come out of any of it.

[Tame]

there are minorities that serve in congress, but i haven't heard many minority oriented bills or whatever come out of any of it.

What is a "minority oriented bill"?

Also, your statement makes it very clear you are ill-informed when it comes to Congress.

[Tame]

Well both Obama and Clinton are US Senators, which is similar to being a member of parliament I think... but it's not the same. It's like saying "we'll let you people get this high in leadership, just don't try and go any farther."


I guess that wasn't said, considering they are trying to go higher.

[Kenickie]

like
what has bill richardson done directly for hispanics?
thats what i mean.
this thread has gotten so off topic already.

[Chrysalis]

thank you kenickie and kpickell, i understand a little bit better.

to go back on topic

tell me what you think this election is going to unearth in people! is it worse to be racist or sexist?
I don't think either is worse. Both involve discrimination. I do agree that black women face the double whammy of racism and sexism. we were discussing that last night in my psychology of women class how race and gender have an interaction effect. I don't understand it very well in the context of the US election but it's interesting enough I wanted to post something.

[Savannah]

actually Obama is bi-racial like me :) and like Hillary I am a woman. i, however, wouldn't make my decision as to whom to cast my vote based upon those criteria.

yeah, I would like to see a woman win the presidency because I think it would do everyone a lot of good to get that one out of the way, but my original choice for president was an old white guy, Joe Biden. and I also think it would be cool if the country could elect a racial minority as president too because it would indicate an increased tolerance of those are racially or ethnically different than the majority. but, in the end, I am going to vote for whomever I think would make the best president regardless of race or gender.

[pkk]

Interesting how Melissa Harris-Lacewell points to a heirarchy of privilege for lack of a better word in describing how, when white women joined the work force, it wasn't white men who took up the slack in the domestic caretaking of white children but black women as they waited in the proverbial line behind not only white men but also behind white women while Steinem predicts the nomination of Obama due to a societal preference for male military leadership.

Anyway, I think racism has historically been more severe than sexism in the U.S. but not by much. I can barely imagine a black American not hoping to vote for a black presidential candidate and a female American not hoping to vote for a female Presidential candidate.

[Hujewman]

actually Obama is bi-racial like me :)

hey me too :rockon:
I find it pretty weird how everyone calls Obama the black candidate. It's like they're disregarding his mother's existence. I guess half black people are often called black, it just isn't very accurate.

I don't think letting race or gender influence your decision is altogether bad. Obama Clinton and Edwards are pretty much the same person when it comes to policy, so I think I would pick Obama out of them. The only reason is because I think having a minority elected as our next president would present a powerful message to the world that currently hates us, and might be better for easing tensions between the US and other nations. When I get to know the candidates better that decision might change, but I really don't think whoever ends up taking office will do much differently from the others.

[Tame]

hey me too :rockon:
I find it pretty weird how everyone calls Obama the black candidate. It's like they're disregarding his mother's existence. I guess half black people are often called black, it just isn't very accurate.

That is because historically in the US, if one parent is black, you are black. You live the life and have the experiences of a black person, which tend to be different than those of a white person.



The only reason is because I think having a minority elected as our next president would present a powerful message to the world that currently hates us, and might be better for easing tensions between the US and other nations.

WTF? How in the hell would that help relations with most of the world? Muslims justify enslaving black Africans, Europe has yet to deal with its racist past, and I won't even start on Asia.
If it takes electing a "minority" to make the world love us, the rest of the world can continue kissing my black ass.


but I really don't think whoever ends up taking office will do much differently from the others.

Finally, something we can agree on.

[eggplant]

I would probably cry if either Clinton or Obama were elected president, just because I think it would be very moving to finally see a woman or a person of color elected in this country. That being said, I plan on voting for Kucinich in the primary because he more closely reflects my viewpoints on a number of issues. I have some misgivings about both Clinton and Obama politically, but I will definitely vote for either one of them in the election because they reflect my viewpoints a lot more closely than anyone who will win the Republican nomination, not because of gender or race.

[Hujewman]

That is because historically in the US, if one parent is black, you are black. You live the life and have the experiences of a black person, which tend to be different than those of a white person.
Not really. You don't have the experiences of a black person because you don't have the experience of having two black parents. Your white parent has some cultural influence on you. I get what you're saying though. Not really worth arguing about because I don't care.



WTF? How in the hell would that help relations with most of the world? Muslims justify enslaving black Africans, Europe has yet to deal with its racist past, and I won't even start on Asia.
If it takes electing a "minority" to make the world love us, the rest of the world can continue kissing my black ass.

It would help relations because most of the world thinks that we're white supremacist asswipes. Even though they're just as racist as us, and even more so in some cases, it would send a message that we're more liberal and tolerant than they think. Europeans tend to think that American liberals are more conservative than European conservatives. **** like that makes them think that they need to concentrate more on the EU and less on NATO because European countries have more similar political ideologies with each other than they do with America. IMO international cooperation is pretty damn important, so if it takes electing a bi-racial dude to help make the world love us, I'm all for it, no matter how pathetic people are for letting that be an influence. I don't think it'll make much of a difference, but I think it will help. And since I don't have anything else right now to significantly differentiate the major democratic candidates I'll go with that. I'm probably not going to vote anyway.

[Tame]

Not really. You don't have the experiences of a black person because you don't have the experience of having two black parents. Your white parent has some cultural influence on you. I get what you're saying though. Not really worth arguing about because I don't care.

You obviously don't know WTF you are talking about. It isn't about "cultural influence it is about how society views and treats you.