Eating out: so much trust!

[Earthly Delight]

When I was on diet back when and would order diet cola, I was always nervous that the waitress maybe screwed up and brought me regular coke instead--especially when my brother, sitting right beside me, ordered regular cola. (Once my little brother had ordered iced tea and on one of my refills she brought me iced tea by accident--I didn't say anything to her but it definately confirmed that there is reason to be skeptical: if she couldn't even notice its not cola, the chances she'd get non-diet are huge.)

Ok, ok, enough with the diet/non-diet, the point is now that i'm vegan my skepticisim has gone through the roof. How easy is it for a restaurant to use chicken stock rather than vegetable to cook their noodles? Curry paste with fish sauce in it?

I have very strong faith in vegan/vegetarian restaurants and health food stores because I feel that chances are, most of the staff there and even the owner are vegan/vegetarian themselves, and thus truly understand and respect our needs and desires as to what we consume. But, for 'regular' restaurants I tend to doubt that they (a) Understand the extent to which vegans will not eat animal products (i.e. "oh its just an ingredient in the curry base, no one will mind."--or they just don't think to check the ingredients of their store bought bases) (b) Fully respect/care about how much WE care.

Am I too paranoid? Does anyone else live in this constant gauugh?-ness?

I'm lucky though, at the moment I live by a LOT of vegan health food stores and organic grocery stores, and next year I'm moving into an area with dozens of vegan and vegetarian restaurants within half a block even, and local organic grocers too. ^__^

[computergirl]

You sound just like me. I always wondered about the soda thing because I too drank diet soda when I ate out. I figured it was just my natural skepticness.

I actually no longer eat out at non-veg restaurants anymore though because it's just too hard to be sure. Well that and in Green Bay waitstaff seem to act like you are a freak set on this earth to make their job harder. Well that and a lot of the people here don't seem to have even heard the term vegan.

[Lucious]

I can't eat out. I don't trust anyone to touch my food and wash their hands before hand, or wash the food properly. I especially don't trust omnis who cook veggie food because many seem to think that a bit of cheese here, or some chick stock is vegetarian.

There's so much ignorance as to what a veg*an can eat, and even when I ask a waiter/tress to customize my meal I know that they're busy as are many chefs that they don't give a second thought to it. The best thing I found was telling people I am allergic to dairy and eggs, people seem to be much more cautious.

[NotYet]

As a former server I can tell you I checked and re-checked. But then, I was a vegetarian. Get into the habit of going to the same place. Make sure the staff knows you.

I've gotten into fights with cooks who just 'picked off' the (pig based) pepperoni on salads I was about to serve to my table of Muslim customers. You have to be careful but sometimes you are going to consume animal products/by-products. Even if it's just from using the same grill/pans.

The more you talk about veg*nism the more familiar people are going to be. Don't be an arse about it and you're going to get better results, kwim?

Also, for your own sake, try not to go at 'peak' times. You're going to have a better chance of your server being willing to check ingredients for you. Tip well and continue to go back! Oh, and NEVER tell the server 'Don't worry, I tip well!' The people who say this tend to tip at 10% or less. Not a good tip when you make about 2$ an hour.

/peanut gallery

*Just realized this is the vegan forum but... I'm posting anyway since I've been on the other side. :guitar: *

[leminchyl]

we recently had a conversation at work about seeing waiters/servers/store staff standing outside smoking and how much of a turn-off that is, especially at restaurants and food stores. the last thing i want to smell before i eat is some smoke covered server.

[NotYet]

I would say the majority of any kind of retail/any food service is going to have a higher percentage of smokers. It goes with low wages and high stress. I'm just speaking from experience, I don't have any 'data' to back it up.

R

[fadeaway1289]

I would say the majority of any kind of retail/any food service is going to have a higher percentage of smokers. It goes with low wages and high stress. I'm just speaking from experience, I don't have any 'data' to back it up.

R

Speaking from experience also I would definetly agree with that statement.

[eggplant]

I tend to usually eat in the same few veggie-friendly restaurants, but in restaurants in general I don't sweat all of this stuff. I do my best to make explicitly clear what I do not want in my food and hope for the best. Do I always know that my food is completely untainted by animal products? Not always, but I think it's more important for vegans to show that they can live normal lives. To me veganism is not about purity (I'm not going to die if some tiny iota of animal product is in my food), but about doing my best to reduce animal suffering. I feel that eating out in restaurants and showing that there is a demand for vegan food is doing more than staying home and confirming non-vegans' beliefs that veganism is too hard and too isolating.

[Nickle00]

I grew up in the restaraunt business. My grandmother owned and ran a restaraunt for over 20 years and I worked in chain restaurants (Bennigans, Chili's) I know if you go to a big chain CORPORATE (not franchise) location they are VERY careful about checking the list of ingredients. A lot of restaraunt manager's bonuses are deducted for guest complaints!! Besides that, they really DO want to provide an enjoyable experience and they definitely want you to come back!!

[Nickle00]

I tend to usually eat in the same few veggie-friendly restaurants, but in restaurants in general I don't sweat all of this stuff. I do my best to make explicitly clear what I do not want in my food and hope for the best. Do I always know that my food is completely untainted by animal products? Not always, but I think it's more important for vegans to show that they can live normal lives. To me veganism is not about purity (I'm not going to die if some tiny iota of animal product is in my food), but about doing my best to reduce animal suffering. I feel that eating out in restaurants and showing that there is a demand for vegan food is doing more than staying home and confirming non-vegans' beliefs that veganism is too hard and too isolating.

Right on!!

[Pisces86]

You will be better off not going out because it's not guarenteed that they wont cook your food in an animal based product whether its oil, etc. I know when i was waiting tables i wasn't vegan but when we had a rush(busy) and the food needed to get out quick then the cooks would do whatever they had to do to get things done and get the managers off their asses. I'd say the only way you wouldn't have to worry about your food is if you ate salad bar(still risky because things are cut up on the same table as foods with dairy, etc) or veggies because they're bagged not fresh. I love going out to eat and feel what you're saying and there aren't any vegan/veg restaurants where i live. If there are any in your area, take advantage of em.

[bramble]

You will be better off not going out because it's not guarenteed that they wont cook your food in an animal based product whether its oil, etc. I know when i was waiting tables i wasn't vegan but when we had a rush(busy) and the food needed to get out quick then the cooks would do whatever they had to do to get things done and get the managers off their asses. I'd say the only way you wouldn't have to worry about your food is if you ate salad bar(still risky because things are cut up on the same table as foods with dairy, etc) or veggies because they're bagged not fresh. I love going out to eat and feel what you're saying and there aren't any vegan/veg restaurants where i live. If there are any in your area, take advantage of em.

we don't have any strictly vegetarian restaurants here that i know of, either. i have a lot of concerns about eating raw veggies in restaurants (safety-wise) -- anything that ISN'T cooked is suspicious to me. salmonella. e coli. yadda yadda.

i agree with getting out and showing your veggie cred though. make the demand, you are the customer and your dollars have the vote. however, making sure that the employees know how to wash their hands and that my bean sprouts were rinsed properly, and haven't been sitting in a puddle of raw chicken drippings, or cut with the same knife as one used on raw meat, is a matter of HUGE trust. i was a waitress... i know what i've seen and it ain't pretty :eek: there are very few restaurants i regard that highly - and they know me well :)

[jeezycreezy]

This is the sort of thing language was invented for. Talk to the wait staff or a manager until you're comfortable; if not, you always have the choice to eat elsewhere. And you don't honestly expect anyone to believe that you can't tell the difference between coke and diet coke, do you? ;)

[NotYet]

You will be better off not going out because it's not guarenteed that they wont cook your food in an animal based product whether its oil, etc. I know when i was waiting tables i wasn't vegan but when we had a rush(busy) and the food needed to get out quick then the cooks would do whatever they had to do to get things done and get the managers off their asses. I'd say the only way you wouldn't have to worry about your food is if you ate salad bar(still risky because things are cut up on the same table as foods with dairy, etc) or veggies because they're bagged not fresh. I love going out to eat and feel what you're saying and there aren't any vegan/veg restaurants where i live. If there are any in your area, take advantage of em.

Are you seriously suggesting that veg*ns shouldn't eat out? Or just the OP? Isn't that sort of counter-productive? Shouldn't we encourage veg*ns to eat out? To ensure that people know that we as a whole can function like 'normal' people?

R

[Earthling]

And you don't honestly expect anyone to believe that you can't tell the difference between coke and diet coke, do you? ;)

Why's that so unbelievable? I never drank Coke before I was diagnosed with diabetes (I'm a pepsi girl) but I soon found out that 80% of places I went to only had water or diet coke for me to drink. I had to start drinking the stuff, even though I hated the taste, because tepid water wasn't doing it for me. One time they didn't listen properly and gave me ordinary Coke and I couldn't tell the difference. I drank the whole thing and was really quite ill afterwards.

[Hamry]

That's weird. I can always tell the difference between normal coke and diet. Probably because i used to HATE diet and love normal. I've given up fizzy drinks now so it's all good :D

I get very paranoid when I eat out but it's really hard for me to avoid it. I don't want to go out with my friends and be the one person not eating, or go to a family outing and not touch any food, so I get over my fears. I usually pick something that is already vegan or is easy to veganise, as in 'no sour cream with that' or 'no cheese on that'. When I'm with friends I usually say I'm allergic to dairy so that they take me seriously, when I'm with family they tend to take it very seriously as my dad phones ahead and explains to them. They usually already have a plan of what to give me when I get there. It sometimes limits my choice but it's on the safer side.

[NotYet]

Why's that so unbelievable? I never drank Coke before I was diagnosed with diabetes (I'm a pepsi girl) but I soon found out that 80% of places I went to only had water or diet coke for me to drink. I had to start drinking the stuff, even though I hated the taste, because tepid water wasn't doing it for me. One time they didn't listen properly and gave me ordinary Coke and I couldn't tell the difference. I drank the whole thing and was really quite ill afterwards.

Aw, I'm sorry that happened. Make sure you mention that you're diabetic, they will be extra careful. I was at least. And if you're with friends/family (as opposed to colleagues) have a non-diet drinker taste it, trust me we can tell!

<--- Does this (:spew:) when I drink diet.

Rebbecca

[Earthly Delight]

On this note, veg.ca provides a HUGE list of vegetarian and vegan restaurants in Toronto, and while the ones that are just 'vegetarian friendly' are still more sketchy, i also have last years and figure--if they're on it two years in a row it means they haven't messed up so far, at least? Plus, I think they have to pay 60ish dollars on top of being approved to be in, so it means they really do care.

So my dad agreed every friday is father/daughter lunch date (he thought i said every thursday AND friday, but thats a lot of eating out!) so i pick the restaurant, we both eat, and he foots the bill. We want to try as many as we can on the list. Excitement!!!

And yeah, I can't tell the difference between the two: I only drank diet when I did drink soda, so I forgot how 'regular' tasted...

[Resplendent]

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, so I am not sure if I should have posted, but I had some advice that I think would work for vegans seeking a vegetarian-friendly environment in restaurants...

One key to having success at restaurants, I think, is assertiveness. People need to know their customer. Not only is assertiveness a key, but assertiveness with asking questions, giving information on what you want and do not want in food, and even going to the same place to remind the people of your standards is helpful. This might be hard if you feel silly to say what you want and do not want in food, but I think it does help - and just like many other people said in this thread before: not everyone knows your standards, so it does not hurt to educate.

At a local Thai restaurant, I had the pleasure of being able to request no fish sauce in my Pad Thai. It was a relief and I did not recall any difference in taste (fish sauce smells bad, anyway).

On a note, I think that if you find 'local restaurants' - believe it or not - you might have better success on getting what you want. Local restaurants are not obligated to corporations (at least, usually) and do not have to worry about certain standards, such as only substituting a potato with a potato, or a tomato with a tomato; this also depends on the individual local restaurant, too, though, but I think they have more worry about keeping customers than corporate-related restaurants (they are less known, and because they are less known, they do not get as much business as corporate-related restaurants). In my personal experience, I also noticed that employees at local restaurants are more familiar with the ingredients in their food than those at corporate-related restaurants - and if they are not, the manager or the cook knows...so, this means you have a higher chance of knowing what they use in their foods. And finally, local restaurants usually do not have pre-made foods and most of their menu items are 'homemade', which means that you do not have to worry as much about contamination if you communicate your needs to the waiters/waitresses. Ergo, local restaurants are likely much more willing to cater to the needs of their customers.


I hope this helps some. I am also a fan of analyzing the heck out of labels - so if you feel like taking that extra measure, feel free to ask for the ingredients of the foods that are served; some restaurants have to be mindful of food allergies (in my personal experience, it is usually at bakery-type restaurants), so they have ingredients lists ready at request. I developed this habit from reading the ingredients regularly at food stores. There are, funny enough, chicken bouillon products in Asian stores that are vegetarian friendly. (And have no slaughter-by products in them! How contradictory is that?)

If you somehow get something 'funny' found in your food, if the people are wise, they will redo your order and sometimes, they might even take the item off your ticket. One of the restaurants I been to in my area have made a habit of taking messed up items off the ticket, and even taking very late arrival items off the ticket. Some positives can come from fiascos, I guess.

If anything, even if something manages to slip into your mouth and you find out, too late, there is always some optimistic thoughts: it was not intentional; it was by all means not a habit; you saved many more animals by your practices than your friend at the next table. I think this will happen anywhere, even when you buy products at the local organic store. It is human to err. We can only take the extra measures to make sure the errors are not rampant. :-)

Sincerely,
Resplendent

[leminchyl]

we went out for japanese last night and i got the seweed salad (i love that stuff) and veggie stir fry. i dont know what the stir fry sauce was and that makes me nervous. it didnt taste like it was 100% animal free. per everyones advice, i should have asked.

[sunrisesunset]

I always contact the restaurant before I go there and make sure they have vegan options and find out how their food is cooked and if utensils are shared. Never just wait until you get there and ask the waitor/waitress they normally don't know what you're talking about and will just make up an answer to please you. I have certain restaurants that I trust compeltely because they have a seperate area for cooking veggie meals such as p.f. changs and mongolian grill.
tips to going to a restaurant your unsure of:
- call ahead -give a detailed description of what you CANNOT eat, a lot of people dont know what a vegan can eat -find out how its prepared -bring your own dressing/sauce

[LucidAnne]

Why's that so unbelievable? I never drank Coke before I was diagnosed with diabetes (I'm a pepsi girl) but I soon found out that 80% of places I went to only had water or diet coke for me to drink. I had to start drinking the stuff, even though I hated the taste, because tepid water wasn't doing it for me. One time they didn't listen properly and gave me ordinary Coke and I couldn't tell the difference. I drank the whole thing and was really quite ill afterwards.

thats happened to me too... i have diabetes too, so it sucks.
you cant always tell w/ fountain drinks as opposed to thick, syrupy canned sodas...the fountain drinks can be overly fizzy and a bit watery so it can be questionable.

fyi worzel.... you can carry around ketone strips (the ones w/ a glucose indicator on them too) and dip them into your driink to see if it contains sugar...if it changes color, its not diet soda!

[carabdle]

Those of you with diabetes probably want to lay off the aspartame if that's what your drinks are sweetened with. Asparatame is one of the most toxic food additives around...one site that discusses this is here: http://www.dorway.com/badnews.html Although Splenda is newer, some are worried about its effects too, one site that discusses this: http://www.holisticmed.com/splenda/

I think you're better off either drinking water or unsweetened tea, or just going ahead and drinking a little sugar.

[LucidAnne]

drinking a little sugar.


nope, its just as deadly for pple w/ diabetes. ill take my chances the faux sweeteners...which, for the most part,is not so much aspertame, but is splenda these days.

[danakscully64]

I was a waitress for 2 1/2 years and I've seen a lot. If you're extremely strict, I wouldn't recommend eating out, period. The restaurant I worked at, nothing was completely vegetarian or vegan.. well, except the steamed veggies were vegetarian since they didn't touch anything on the grill, a spatula, or knife. Even the knife they cut the bacon with for salads cut tomatoes or any other veggie that went on salads. The veggie tacos were put on the bun side of the grill, but were picked up with the meat spatula. You can always request vegetarian meals at restaurants, but until the restaurant gets a new grill and has seperate utensils, I would be cautious.

I've cut back on eating out. Ever since I've purchased Veganomicon, I've been excited to try these new recipes, ones better and cheaper than restaurant food.

After a little experience, a waitress can usually tell the difference between diet and regular just by looking at it. They're different in color and the diet has a little less fizz. When I'd bring out food to other server's tables, I knew what the customer was drinking just by looking at their glass (if it was diet, iced tea, raspberry iced tea, sprite, cherry coke, vanilla coke, chocolate coke...).