Too many cats dying after being let outside :(

[lavande]

Let me start this off by saying my boyfriend and his family are all lovely, kind people who would never hurt a fly.
That said, they have had three cats in the past year, all of whom have gotten out of the house and disappeared, presumably eaten by coyotes. They live in the hills and there are a lot of coyotes prowling the area. All three of these cats were still just kittens, less than a year old, when they disappeared. This is terribly tragic and would be unfortunate if I didn't think the family's choices have something to do with what happened....
They let their cats outside. Now, I understand that the cats wanted to go out, and that maybe they think it is unnatural to keep an animal cooped up inside the house. I don't know about the rest of your cats, but my cats do nothing but sleep and cuddle all day. They don't run around and act like they need to be outside, running free and hunting birds or whatever. They are calm and sweet and tame, and they seem like they have very happy, fulfilled lives. When we first got them (at separate times) for a while they would try to go outside if the door was left open (out of curiosity, I believe! not because it was "natural!"), but now they don't try anymore. My cat Artemis got out once and was so scared, I found her hiding, shaking, under a shrub :( She knows where she is safe and comfortable, so she stays here. We live in an apartment complex, and our apartment is right by the parking lot. I would never DREAM of letting my cats out on purpose--the possibility of them being hit by a car is just too real, and I want them to stay safe. If I lived in a neighborhood where I knew there were coyotes, I would never let them outside because I don't want them to get killed. They are both smart, but Artemis is a wimp and Polly (who is my mom's boyfriend's cat so this was NOT my choice) is declawed in her front paws. If faced with a coyote they probably couldn't fight. My boyfriend's family's cats are the same...they were just kittens, there is no way they could have defended themselves if they were attacked.
I talked to my boyfriend today and he said they are getting a new cat. I said "please don't let this one outside" and he got upset and said that the cats WANT to go out and that them being eaten by coyotes is the natural order of things. I, however, disagree and think that the cats would be happy inside the house, where they would be warm and fed and safe. Is there something wrong with that?

Basically, it comes down to my question. Do you let your cats outside? Do you think it is wrong to keep them inside, even if there is danger facing them outside? Am I wrong in thinking that too many cats in this family have died in too short of time, and it is up to them to make sure that this one doesn't disappear within 6 months?????
I don't want another one of their kitties to die...they were all so sweet :(

PS. When I was younger, I had a cat who we used to let walk around our backyard. One time he got out somehow, and was gone for four days. My aunt found him outside our house, trying to crawl up the driveway...he had been hit by a car, and he had broken his leg and jaw. I have no idea how he survived, but he did and lived another 10 years. If I was religious I'd say it was a miracle, and I don't expect anything like that to happen again...if my cat got hit by a car now, she would most likely die. I'm not going to risk that!!

[Amy SF]

I do NOT let my cats out unsupervised. Sometimes I'll open the door of my apt. and let one of my two cats out, but they don't go very far, and they're very nervous about it. They're mainly curious about what's outside. Both of them are also very high-strung, so the minute they hear a noise from downstairs (we live on the second floor), they high-tail it back inside. Most of the time they give no indication that they want to go outside. They are content to sit at the window and look outside. I try to play with them and give them as much physical exercise and mental stimulation as I can, and they seem content with that.

I was horrified when you posted that your BF said being eaten by a coyote is the natural order of things. For a wild animal, perhaps, but a domesticated pet that is loved and cared for, that is a tragedy and doesn't have to happen. I'm sorry, but he comes across as rather heartless in that respect. If I were you, I'd try everything I could to stop him from getting another cat. It's just another tragedy waiting to happen. :no:

[lavande]

Thank you, Amy! I thought for sure people might think I'm cruel for keeping my cats cooped up.
I know what you mean about it not being a natural order of things, I guess I didn't think to say that. It's true, they are domesticated and do not deserve it. They weren't his cats, they were his little sister's. He goes to college away from home and is only home for holidays, so I think maybe he doesn't think it's his place to say something about it. Really he's not a heartless person at all, he's the sweetest guy ever, but I think he doesn't know why I'm so upset about it!
Also, I think it's unfair to his little sister. She is just 11 years old, and it must be so upsetting to lose all those pets. I know I would be absolutely DEVASTATED if my cat got killed (as in, I wouldn't get out of bed for days and wouldn't go to work kind of devastated, she is just like family to me!) but she doesn't seem so upset by it. I think her mom and dad downplayed the seriousness of the situation, and she just figures it's not too big of a deal. Do you think I could maybe convince them not to let the cat outside?

[Masja]

We have 4 cats, all of whom are stricly indoors. Personally for me, I don't let them out. They have snuck out when someone has left the door open, but we found them all a few hours later scoping out the yard, so they didn't go far.
It really is a personal preference/belief. Some people feel that they should allow their pets to go outside, for me, I choose not to. Like the OP's cats, my cats are lazy, content housecats, so I know for certain they are not 'missing out' on their 'natural' instincts or whatever.
If I lived in the country, perhaps I'd think differently, but I would also be afraid of my cat getting eaten. My SIL goes through pets like you wouldnt believe and it makes me sick. Atleast once a month she calls to say she's getting a new cat or dog, because the last one has either 'disappeared' or was shot, or eaten or whatever. They had one dog drown in a well while they watched helplessly, because no one had the realization that the well lid was off. They live in the country and all their pets are outdoor animals. Horrible and it still haunts her that her dog died the way she did, but geez, she is the type of person who is not responsible for her pets.
I have hit a cat with my car, I was devastated and still feel guilty 3 years later. That cats owners should not have allowed their cat outside. I see so many pets on the side of the road dead and it makes me so mad. If you live in the city, don't let your pets out to get into fights with other animals, hit by cars or die from exposure or getting into something like garbage, antifreeze or god knows what else. So yes, animals should be kept inside and cared for, not left to roam free so they get killed.

[Wolfie]

This has been discussed here many times and will probably turn into an argument. I have met one cat my entire life who was truly unhappy not going outside. Just one. Keeping a cat inside isn't cruel and where I live, letting them outside would be. Your boyfriend is way off on this one.

[screechingninja]

Never would i ever let my cat out unsupervised. The reasons ae too many too list, why would you ever want to take the risk? Other animals, cars, other cruel humans, poison, disease, other cats with disease, the bacteria they bring back to your house, etc. I don't understand people who have outdoor cats. Cats are domesticated They do not need to be outside roaming around, they are perfectly content and happy as indoor cats, and much healthier. Esp. if you live in an area where there is coyotes everywhere, no offense to your boyfirend, im sure hes a great guy but ppl who think that letting your kittens outside to most likely be eaten by the coyotes roaming around your house is the way of nature, should not own a pet... where is the love for the cat? I love my cats so much, i couldnt bare even the thought of risking their safety or seeing them being eaten by a coyote as nature. if a coyote attacks your child while playing outside, is that "nature"? not likely.

[chryssiie718]

Our cats are strictly indoor cats. We live near a VERY busy street and I have seen too many dead cats on the road to ever risk that happening to one of our "furry children."

[Earthling]

My three cats are allowed outdoors whenever they want. When we got them (the first one we got about 9 years ago) we lived in a road where all the houses were joined together. Since we only let them out the back, there was no way they could access a road (or indeed anything but people's gardens) without going through someone's house and out their front door. We moved in Feb 2007 and after 9 years of being allowed outdoors, I would consider it very cruel to imprison them. We kept them in for two weeks when we moved, to get them acclimatised before letting them out, and it really tore me up seeing Ted prowling around the edges of rooms and all the windows and doors trying to get out. He used to be feral - all of ours were rescue cats - and I think his quality of life would be greatly reduced if we made him an indoor cat. He's out about 12 hours every day, coming in for meals and sleeping in the warm at night. I don't worry about him - although he does now have access to a 40mph road the sound from it is enough to send any sane cat running in the other direction. Nothing would entice him onto the road as he won't let a single person approach him but me, even the other people who live in the house.

As outdoor cats they got fleas each summer, which was quickly dealt with and never caused a problem. Ted got in a few fights with other toms but I never thought that justified keeping an (ex) feral cat inside all the time. Our other two are both over 10 years old now and though they have the choice, rarely go out except to do their business. I think they could happily be indoor cats, but since that would make life difficult for Ted I see no reason to do it.

I don't have a problem with people keeping indoor cats. It's so much better to have cats well looked after, as all the cats of the posters in this thread seem to be, and kept indoors than to be allowed outside but treated badly. We could never actually have an indoor cat here, since it's a bungalow and they can jump out of any open window, but if I had the option and felt there was a safety risk I'd certainly consider it. Just to clarify I only think it'd be cruel in my cat's cases because they need to go out to display the natural behaviour they have learned over the years. I do feel it would cause them stress to keep them locked in - but I do not think this is the same for every cat.

[screechingninja]

My three cats are allowed outdoors whenever they want. When we got them (the first one we got about 9 years ago) we lived in a road where all the houses were joined together. Since we only let them out the back, there was no way they could access a road (or indeed anything but people's gardens) without going through someone's house and out their front door. We moved in Feb 2007 and after 9 years of being allowed outdoors, I would consider it very cruel to imprison them. We kept them in for two weeks when we moved, to get them acclimatised before letting them out, and it really tore me up seeing Ted prowling around the edges of rooms and all the windows and doors trying to get out. He used to be feral - all of ours were rescue cats - and I think his quality of life would be greatly reduced if we made him an indoor cat. He's out about 12 hours every day, coming in for meals and sleeping in the warm at night. I don't worry about him - although he does now have access to a 40mph road the sound from it is enough to send any sane cat running in the other direction. Nothing would entice him onto the road as he won't let a single person approach him but me, even the other people who live in the house.

As outdoor cats they got fleas each summer, which was quickly dealt with and never caused a problem. Ted got in a few fights with other toms but I never thought that justified keeping an (ex) feral cat inside all the time. Our other two are both over 10 years old now and though they have the choice, rarely go out except to do their business. I think they could happily be indoor cats, but since that would make life difficult for Ted I see no reason to do it.

I don't have a problem with people keeping indoor cats. It's so much better to have cats well looked after, as all the cats of the posters in this thread seem to be, and kept indoors than to be allowed outside but treated badly. We could never actually have an indoor cat here, since it's a bungalow and they can jump out of any open window, but if I had the option and felt there was a safety risk I'd certainly consider it. Just to clarify I only think it'd be cruel in my cat's cases because they need to go out to display the natural behaviour they have learned over the years. I do feel it would cause them stress to keep them locked in - but I do not think this is the same for every cat.


hmmm i see your point, but arent you afraid he might be poisoned or something? i guess it depends in a way where you live too.

[Pescas]

Yes, he goes outside. I will never have an indoor cat I think. There are very few wild dangerous animals in Norway, and none in the city. He is inside each night. The danger is cars, but I've had many cats and none have been run over. There is little traffic where I live.

Yes, I think that cats should be able to go outside as long as its safe. If I had lived in a big city I wouldnt have a cat outside because of the traffic.

[screechingninja]

wow thats weird! here, i have not heard of a shelter that will adopt out to you if they know or even suspect that they will be an outdoor pet. i'm not sure what to think totally, i just think that personally, i wouldn't let my cats outdoor unsupervised anywhere nowadays, with all the horror stories you hear and cruel people out there. A couple times here we have even had serial cat killers, well one was in a town right outside here and they caught him, the other was in town here and was never caught so far. People were finding their cats, or tons of other cats outside skinned, mutilated, their heads half cut off, it was really horrifying to think we had somenoe that sick so close by. I'm more scared of other humans than even cars, and other things.

[Earthling]

hmmm i see your point, but arent you afraid he might be poisoned or something? i guess it depends in a way where you live too.

Not really - to be honest, it's not something I've ever really thought about. There are no dustbins anywhere that he can access, and I think the likelihood of dangerous chemicals being spilled in somebody's garden and not cleaned up/washed away is quite low. I suppose he could eat fertilizers and things but cats, in my experience, sniff anything that is potential food and I can't see chemicals smelling very appetising for them. There's always the risk, but there's a big risk in the home as well (cleaning materials for example).


Attitudes on this matter are very different here in the UK, where rescues often won't adopt out to you unless you have a garden and are going to let your cat outside.

I didn't realise until reading this thread that indoor cats were more common in the US. When we adopted our first two cats we got a visit from the people at the charity who inspected our house & garden to make sure they were suitable. They explained to us to keep them in for four weeks before letting them out, but there was never a question of us not letting them outside. I don't personally know anybody with an indoor cat here.

[Pescas]

Same here, all the cat shelters here prefer that the cats are let outside.
I dont know anyone with an indoor cat, and it is definetly more common in the US.

[karenlovessnow]

I have four cats (live in US), two go out and two do not. In the past, I have only had outdoor cats. It's what I grew up with and it never occurred to me to consider having indoor cats. Now that I have both indoor/outdoor kitties I will say that in the future I will most likely continue to have indoor cats only, mainly because of the worry I endure when they are outside. I will attest to the fact that there are certain cats that will do anything to be let outside. They are not all automatically content with being indoor cats. I made two attempts in the recent past to keep newly acquired kitties indoor but it was too much of a hassle for me. I couldn't stand the battles every time the door opened and their incessant crying. Anyway, I'm hoping to only have indoor cats in the future now that I have had the experience of both indoor/outdoor cats.

That said, I think it's a personal decision and that there is no right/wrong answer...except in the case of the OP...if numerous cats are disappearing in a short amount of time, I would seriously reconsider getting another cat altogether unless it were kept inside. This seems like an extreme case here.

[chryssiie718]

I agree it is a choice made based on where you live and other circumstances. When I was growing up on a farm, we had numerous outdoor only cats as my mother forbid animals indoors. She did mellow out a bit and did allow a cat in the house years after I had left home. I think in the OP case, they should be convinced to keep the cats indoors, and if they refuse, I don't think they should have a cat at all. :(

[lavande]

I talked to my boyfriend more about it, and I think I understand where he is coming from now, even though I still don't agree. He grew up always having outdoor cats and I guess it never occured to him that their cats wouldn't be allowed outside. These last three cats where unfortunate accidents I suppose because they have had cats before who lived to be very old and died naturally, not by being hit by a car or being eaten by a coyote. The first two cats ran away, got outside when they were not supposed to, and they disappeared, and the third cat was allowed outside and something happened to him. I tried to convince him some more that this shows their cats shouldn't be allowed out because it's not a good area for them to be roaming around, and I hope they will listen.

They got a new cat yesterday from a rescue, and instead of a kitten they adopted a 7 year old cat! I was proud of them for that. I haven't seen her yet but apparently she is very sweet, and since she is older she is probably trained to stay inside, so maybe we won't have to worry about her trying to get out.

[Thalia]

For anyone who has any doubts about keeping a cat inside, please read this (http://www.musingmanya.com/2007/12/those-of-you-who-came-here-from-my-old.html) blog entry detailing what may happen if your cat gets hit by a car.

You can also hear about this ordeal which caused me much grief in this thread here (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=80488).

Attached is a picture of the tree ornament I made in honor of this unknown cat who was killed and never found by its family who is probably still missing him and wondering what happened to him every day.

[Eclipse]

Everyone has to weight the risks of where they live with the choice of allowing their cat outdoors. Since situations differ in different locales, so does the choice of letting a cat outdoors. There are areas now where it's illegal to have a cat outdoors.

This is suburbia here, very close if not in town depending on what you count as town. Yes there's plenty of traffic and it's all slow town traffic. Sometimes I'm not sure if it would be more or less safe for cats to cross these roads or some back country roads where people might drive faster.

It seems about half of the cats are indoors and half are allowed outdoors. I am only guessing because the only way I know about indoors cats is by seeing them sitting by a window. Some of the cats allowed outdoors I see on a regular basis so I play with them/cuddle them.

This is a lower middle class neighborhood and as such people don't have a lot of disposible income to throw about. For some I'm guessing a household companion animal is low on the priority list and I'm guessing spaying and neutering is not wide spread around here. Sadly I see intact male cats on a regular basis( I can't tell if a female cat is intact) and litters of kittens.
This makes it harder to keep track of where the cats live with the wandering intact cats.

[Thalia]

As for poisoning, antifreeze kills many animals every year (http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/antifreeze.html), only takes 1-2 teaspoons, is appealing to dogs and cats, and will kill very quickly. It only takes one car with a leak, or a small puddle from someone changing the antifreeze in their car.

There was a VB member whose dog was poisoned (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=81596) very recently, perhaps by a person, perhaps by something else.

As for other people hurting your cat, we had people who sent us nasty letters threating to kill our cats because our cats may have dug up their flowers or otherwise pestered them. There may have been other people who also felt the same way but who did not send letters. We also had cats who just disappeared and we don't know what ever happened to them. My parents fortunately made their current cats indoor ones in spite of having taken the attitude that they would be happier outside for over 30 years. The cats sit by windows with bird feeders outside, have lots of toys, and don't seem the least bit unhappy. Their cats and mine are actually scared of the outdoors.

As for quiet streets, when I was ten, we found our cat killed on the side of our very quiet side street. We always got her in every night, but this particular night she got back out and we never got her to come home.

A neighbor was teaching his son to drive that night and hit her. If you have never seen your cat stiff, lifeless and with their mouth hanging open with blood on it's teeth, I hope you never do. Very traumatic for a 10 year old child, but just as bad for my family. I can still remember waking up to the sound of loud sobbing from my mom and dad. Even still, sometimes when I hear my parents laughing in the other room I think they are crying and get scared that another cat died.

[screechingninja]

For anyone who has any doubts about keeping a cat inside, please read this (http://www.musingmanya.com/2007/12/those-of-you-who-came-here-from-my-old.html) blog entry detailing what may happen if your cat gets hit by a car.

You can also hear about this ordeal which caused me much grief in this thread here (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=80488).

Attached is a picture of the tree ornament I made in honor of this unknown cat who was killed and never found by its family who is probably still missing him and wondering what happened to him every day.

Awe, how special! I'm so glad to see his little life being honored so greatly.

[screechingninja]

As for quiet streets, when I was ten, we found our cat killed on the side of our very quiet side street. We always got her in every night, but this particular night she got back out and we never got her to come home.

A neighbor was teaching his son to drive that night and hit her. If you have never seen your cat stiff, lifeless and with their mouth hanging open with blood on it's teeth, I hope you never do. Very traumatic for a 10 year old child, but just as bad for my family. I can still remember waking up to the sound of loud sobbing from my mom and dad. Even still, sometimes when I hear my parents laughing in the other room I think they are crying and get scared that another cat died.

I've had pets killed on quiet streets when I was younger too. :( I feel like it's just not worth it. The thing is, cats are naturally curious, they want outside, not because they need too and are suffering, and etc, they're just curious. If you close your bedroom door, chances are your cat will want to know what's behind the door, etc.

My cat Grimalkin is an outside pet and I hate it, he lives with my mother so I have no say in the matter, but Lily is not and never will be and she seems perfectly content with that. The one time, I had ot take her to the vet up the road and had to carry her and she was terrified to be outside. She just shook, dug her claws into my swater and dug her little orange head onto my arm. My poor little baby.

[Lynnbug]

For me-my Lucy is inside cat all the way. At one time I let her and my other two cats outside. Well, my other two cats are gone and I have seen no trace of them i n months. Therefore, Lucy is inside now. I also rescused a cat that had gotten run over just outside my work, it had to be euthanized. Also, a neighbor cat was found New Year's day ran over right in front of my mobile home. So, for me the decision will stand that Lucy is now inside all the time. She doesnt seem to mind. She does look out windows but never tries to sneak out. I just couldnt bear to pick her up from the road after a car had hit herf or a dog had gotten her.

[veggiebot]

i would never ever let my cat out. id be worried all day as to where he would be.
i currently live in a neighborhood full of cats and i see them everyday...so im happy to know nothing has happened to them yet. it sucks though when its FREEZING out and they havnt been brought back in. i have been tempted to bring them into my apartment to let them get some warmness but my roommie wouldnt like that. iv actually let one of them sit in my car while it was heating up and id sit with it and pet it :/
iv also been tempted to buy them kitty sweaters but i thought how funny it would be to have the owner open the door and see........the cat in clothes.

[Lynnbug]

I have to say that I have let the neighborhood dogs have a "sleep over" on nights when it is below freezing. The owners wont let them in and I think it is awful. The only problem with letting them in sometimes is they want in all the time. My place is very small and it can get quite crowded. But I cant stand to let them s tay outside and freeze.

[chryssiie718]

I have to say that I have let the neighborhood dogs have a "sleep over" on nights when it is below freezing. The owners wont let them in and I think it is awful. The only problem with letting them in sometimes is they want in all the time. My place is very small and it can get quite crowded. But I cant stand to let them s tay outside and freeze.

Isn't it illegal to let dogs run free and not taken proper care of them such as bringing them inside in freezing weather??? These people need to be reported to your local authorities.