A new dog *hopefully*

[Fritemare]

My husband and I have been discussing getting a small dog for awhile. Ares really loves the neighbor's dogs, but I don't get along with them so he can't play with them. I'll be visiting C.A.P. or a similiar place to get the dog, but there are a few things my husband is concerned about. The major thing is shedding. I really wanted a dog with longer fur, but I think that is going to be impossible since it will obviously shed. The dog also can't weigh more than 25lbs. I am trying to find something that *usually* has a good temperment with younger children. Any suggestions?

[Wolfie]

Boston terriers, beagles and schanuzers are usually good with kids. Some beagles can get over 25 lbs though and neither has long hair. Dogs like maltese and yorkies have longer hair and don't really shed like other dogs but they do lose some hair naturally, like people. Yorkies aren't known for loving kids for the most part, though, unless they grow up around them.

In my experience, female dogs, in general, tolerate more from young children than male dogs. Of course there will be some females that will nip and some males that will tolerate all kinds of kid abuse, but for the most part females I've known are more patient.

Of course, with any dog you will never want to leave your baby alone with it until he's at least 6 or 7 and he should also learn that ear tugging and hair pulling aren't okay.

Most rescues or shelters (I'm assuming that's what CAP is) will tell you if a particular dog is good with kids and what ages of kids it's used to. More than breed, I think being well-socalized around kids from a young age is the key.

Petfinder.com also lets you search by breed, sex, size, etc. and will tell you if a particular dog shouldn't be around kids, cats, etc.

At the shelter where I volunteer, they put right on the dog's kennel "no kids" or "no kids under X age" if it's not a good kid dog.

Any dog you get should have it's own place in the house where it can take a break from the baby if need be and of course you don't want Ares grabbing toys from the dog, getting in it's face when it's eating, bothering it while it sleeps, etc. My dogs all love kids and are very tolerant and will put up with any of that stuff, as many dogs will, but it's still better to be safe and teach Ares proper etiquette around dogs.

Good luck! I hope you find the perfect dog!

[rabid_child]

Animal and child experts both tend to agree that it's not a good idea to introduce new animals in a household where there are children under 4.

If you're going to get a dog, however, I would get an older dog through a rescue organization where the dog's temperment is known/tested by the rescuers to reduce the chances of any problems. If you don't have a lot of time to exercise the dog, I'd stay away from terriers because they usually have a ton of energy and need a lot of exercise. The foofoo toy breeds like maltese and bijons don't need the same level of exercise. You might look into a Corgi, though they might be pushing the 25lbs mark... though they are herding dogs and sometimes can be TOO protective of their family.

[jeanlenning]

Shih Tzus have longer hair and I have never notice any shedding, all the ones I've been around have been good with children too. I agree with rabid_child about getting an older dog. Good luck! :)

[Fritemare]

We probably will be getting an older dog, and the exercise won't be a problem. I'm home all day long and I go for two walks a day with Ares in the stroller, weather permiting. We also have a huge fenced in yard. Ares won't ever be left alone with the dog, I know better ;)

[kpickell]

Animal and child experts both tend to agree that it's not a good idea to introduce new animals in a household where there are children under 4.

If you're going to get a dog, however, I would get an older dog through a rescue
What, really??

I would be really very interested to read more about this view point, because I tend to believe the very opposite.

[LovelyPerv]

I was an animal adoption counselor for four years...and one thing's for sure: There is lots of 'expert advice' regarding the issues you asked about...and it's very conflicting.

This is based on my own experiences:

Shedding: Length of the fur doesn't mean anything... What matters is the KIND of hair... All dogs shed to some degree (even so-called non-shedding breeds) but what makes the difference is how MUCH of that hair is UNDERCOAT. Naomi, was a dog with hair four inches long, but she had no undercoat...shedding was a breeze because the hairs were so long, they were super-easy to sweep up. Zeus, was a mastiff mix with super short hair...but he was the WORST shedder in the whole shelter!!! If I petted him in the morning, I'd still be covered in his fur that night because he had a DENSE DENSE undercoat...in fact...I think that's all he had!!! Little fine undercoat hair float around in the air, get in your eyes, clog fans, and don't come off in the wash. You can test for undercoat hair by taking your fingers, and pinching a bit of hair on the dog's rump...and gently pull on it. Any loose hairs will come off, so you can see if thier stiff and thick (good) or wispy and wavy (usually kinda crinkled). (NOTE: I am not suggesting PLUCKING hair...no...no...no... Just pulling to remove hair that's already been shed, or is about to be shed...the same way you might tug on your eyelashes to remove any loose ones...keeping them out of your eyes.)

Kids: You can ask anyone that works in the emergency room what dog breeds do the most hard to children... Boxer? Pitbulls? No... When those breeds main a child it makes headlines... Most children are put in stitches by little foo-foo dogs that weigh about 10 lbs. These dogs were bred for their looks, not so much for temperament. Case: A woman I work with has a Chihuahua...mean as h*ll (the dog) and the dog even ripped the lip off the woman's brother. Well, he's so small, that no one seems to think it's the dog's fault...and the brother shouldn't have been teasing the dog by blowing up it's nose... But, if a German Sheppard were to react that way, he probably would have been put to sleep due to aggression. People don't think a small dog can be much of a threat, so it's not something considered when breeding...they just have to be tiny and cute. If you need a small dog, I recommend a dog that's mixed with a small "working" dog...bred to be trained and put to work, like Corgi's, who were bred to herd cattle (of all things).

And finally: Try to get a dog that's been around other dogs (socialized). Seriously...for your kid... Puppies and kittens learn that it's possible to play too rough and get hurt by playing with their littermates. Even adult dogs play with each other and they learn "Hey, it hurts like h*ll when I get a paw slapped into my eye!" This teaches them to be gentle...especially when they're around a creature obviously tender and sensitive (like the kid).

If you really want a puppy...get two. Not only will you be saving TWO lives instead of one, but it's REALLY EASIER to raise two puppies besides just one. Firstly, because of the previous paragraph...the puppies will teach each other what hurts. Secondly, puppies are SMART and need mental and physical stimulation that most homes can't provide...even when they're doing their best. They'll play with each other, interact with each other, be affectionate with each other, and will GREATLY reduce the chance of them having behavioral or psychological problems later on. Thirdly, you they'll play with each other SO MUCH that you won't need to feel too guilty if you come home from work, and are just too tired to do much playing.

One more thing...whether you get a puppy or adult dog...INVEST IN A BOTTLE OF BITTER APPLE SPRAY!!!! It lasts forever, there's no odor, and you can spray almost ANYTHING with it that you don't want them chewing on. Even if they've already chewed it up, they'll lose interest once it's been sprayed. You can spray:
Cloth Furniture
TV Remote
Cell Phone Charger
Shoes
Carpet
Wall Paneling
Door Jams
Phone cords
Computer Cables
Whatever...

On rare occasions, there is a dog (cat, rabbit, ferret, etc...) that seems immune to the nasty flavor of bitter apple sprays... But again, that's pretty rare.

Hmm...one more thing...
Does it need to be under 25 lbs due to your lease agreement?
If not, don't close your mind to a slightly larger dog. I've seem 15lb dogs that would lose their minds if they were cooped up in a house... And, I've seem 75lb dogs that hated being outdoors, stayed inside, and never messed up the house...

I have a 25lb dog, and a 55lb dog... When I get home, the smaller one EXPLODES with energy, and is ready to RUN outside!!! I have to MAKE the 55lb one go outside to at least use the bathroom... For a long time, I had to actually push him off the bed to go out. The 25lb one definitely destroys my house WAAAAY more than the 55lb dog.

Anyways, sorry for the long post, but it's been so long since I've had these conversations with people that I may have gone a little overboard.

[Pescas]

Wow, thats a great post Lovelyperv!

[Fritemare]

The size thing is completely my husband's decision. We already have a dog crate that will fit a dog up to 35lbs that I used for my chihuahua that someone stole. I really wanted to get another chihuahua but I don't want to go through a breeder and it is a rare thing to find one at a shelter. I also don't think they are crazy about children. I wouldn't mind something larger, my husband just doesn't want a huge dog in the house for some reason.

I actually had a dog that just didn't care about the bitter apple spray. I put it on my shoes, my belt, my thongs, bras, etc. He didn't care. He chewed up my entire panty drawer while I was at work one day. I have no idea how he got the drawer on the floor either.

[Wolfie]

What, really??

I would be really very interested to read more about this view point, because I tend to believe the very opposite.

I'm with you. Properly supervised, dogs and young children are fine together. And if they're not properly supervised, then even older kids and dogs shouldn't be together.

My dogs are better with children under 4 than I am. :p

[LovelyPerv]

The size thing is completely my husband's decision. We already have a dog crate that will fit a dog up to 35lbs that I used for my chihuahua that someone stole. I really wanted to get another chihuahua but I don't want to go through a breeder and it is a rare thing to find one at a shelter. I also don't think they are crazy about children. I wouldn't mind something larger, my husband just doesn't want a huge dog in the house for some reason.

I actually had a dog that just didn't care about the bitter apple spray. I put it on my shoes, my belt, my thongs, bras, etc. He didn't care. He chewed up my entire panty drawer while I was at work one day. I have no idea how he got the drawer on the floor either.

When I was a manager at a pet store, I used to tell people to GET A CRATE for thier puppy, to save time housebreaking and training...

Then, I went to work at an animal shelter, and saw how much it screws up dogs... Seriously... Case: A litter of 8 hound mix puppies. We talked all the owners but one out of the crate thing...the last owner had a fit, said we were stupid, and bought a crate. When the puppies came in for thier shots (usually at the same time) you could EASILY spot the crate pup. All the pups were calm and well behaved, doing the butt-sniff thing...and maybe barked at a kitty or two... The Crate Pup was ballistic, bouncing around like mad, and flopping at the end of the leash like a hooked swordfish... The poor woman was exhausted and frustrated, and couldn't understand why the others we so different. We explained that THAT'S what happens...she said "No...I just got the bad one."

Anyways, I do understand the desire for crating when you're gone...especially if you rent. A better alternative (much better) is the baby-gate thing. It doesn't even need to be a very big room...the bathroom works just fine, but the kitchen is much better. Even if you argue that "the crate is so big...it's the same size as the bathroom..." the room is still a MUCH better choice...I don't know what the difference is, but it's way better.

Oooh...almost forgot...
Crating can actually have the reverse effect when it comes to house training. Think about it: Puppies (and some adult dogs) can't hold it ALL DAY while you're at work. They are GOING to pee and poo in the crate...and then sit there with it, looking at it, smelling it, and getting used to it. Before long, poo is no longer icky. Most dogs do not want to spend too much time around thier own poo, and they understand when you get upset when they go on the rug...you don't want to be around it either.

In a crate, they get used to it, and it's no longer icky...and it can even be a fun toy! They get really confused when you are upset about the rug, because it's not icky...it's a normal part of the "home."

Booger, my 25lb dog, was crated until I adopted her at 6 months... Here's what SHE learned in the crate: "I have to pee...if I pee on the pan, it'll run, I'll step in it, and get all icky... If I pee on the blanket, it'll be absorbed, and I'll stay clean!" So, that's what she thinks blankets are for! In a crate, she peed on the bed, and slept on the pan. There's not really much I can do about it...she's gotten used to the idea of peeing in 'the den.' She's gotten much better, but I still keep a mattress bag over my mattress...and I do a lot of laundry.

[Wolfie]

Crate training done properly does NOT mess up a puppy. It will save your furniture, your floors and your sanity and keep the puppy safe, because puppies and young dogs are just like small kids and will eat anything--electric cords, houseplants, and all kinds of things that could cause bowel obstruction.

Of course if the dog is locked in the crate more often than not he will be neurotic and hyper and learn to mess up it's "den." But used properly, a crate is wonderful.

Crate training can be done with adult dogs too but it might take more work to get them used to it if they've never been crated before.

[LovelyPerv]

Crate training done properly does NOT mess up a puppy. It will save your furniture, your floors and your sanity and keep the puppy safe, because puppies and young dogs are just like small kids and will eat anything--electric cords, houseplants, and all kinds of things that could cause bowel obstruction.

Of course if the dog is locked in the crate more often than not he will be neurotic and hyper and learn to mess up it's "den." But used properly, a crate is wonderful.

Crate training can be done with adult dogs too but it might take more work to get them used to it if they've never been crated before.

Yes...In the hands of someone who knows what they're doing...crate training is a humane and effective training device...just like choke and pinch collars. Totally humane, when used by a pro... But, in the hands of your average pet owner (including pet owners that are very well-versed in pet care, and who are pro-shelter, pro animal rights), crates and those collars are nothing more than torture devices.

Sorry...you're not going to sway me on this one. I'm against crate training, because I've truely seen way too much. I've even had the terrible job of having to select crate-trained dogs as "unadoptable" and put them on "the list."

[Wolfie]

I guess it goes both ways. I've seen animals dumped at the shelter because they pee on the carpet, chew everything in sight or are just so big and wild people can't handle them. Crate training and prong collars could solve a lot of those problems.

What your talking about sounds like what happens with puppy mill dogs who spend all their time in a crate in their own filth. Most decent people I know that adopt a dog don't keep it in a crate 24/7.

I still say they can save your house and your dog while your at work or away doing other things.

If you work very long hours or have a young puppy, then you need to come home at lunch or hire someone to let the dog out for you. Letting the dog sit there while you work 10 hours a day wasn't what I meant by proper use of a crate.

I don't consider myself a pro, but I've crate trained dogs and used prong collars and get comments all the time about how well-behaved they are (even when I don't think so.) So I guess I haven't screwed them up too badly.