Frustrated with ignorance on message boards

[DerekOneppo]

I've been frequenting fitness message boards, but I find that quite often, when a vegetarian/vegan diet is discussed it turns into a "man was meant to eat meat" battle, which is completely not true, but it's hard to move past that and continue discussing diet and workouts. Take for example this:

How do you think we past up other primates on the evolutionary ladder? Do you know anything about evolution?

Why do you think vegan diets require so much meal matching (rice and beans) and vitamin supplementing?

Fish oil (fish being an animal) containing omega 3 fatty acids (being a fat) are not just for your heart. Your brain needs them to function. Unlike other body tissues, your brain can't make DHA and EPA from plant oils like walnuts and flaxseeds. The two of you will have to look up DHA & EPA on your own but without them cell membranes don't function properly. This makes fish oil (an animal fat) necessary for proper brain function. Furthermore studies have linked omega 3 deficiency to clinical depression. Many studies confirm that fish is brain food.

Oof

[bluesand]

Well fitness in the fitness world has very little to do with vegetarian/vegan diet .

There are some good threads here , body building , weights , fitness etc if you want to participate in .....you wont get the kind of agro you mentioned .

[kpickell]

Those sound like easy points to counter, but I understand the frustration. If you find yourself making your points and people still disagree, then let them disagree.

[DerekOneppo]

I think I just have a tough time wording my responses in a scientific enough manner that will shut people like that down so the conversation can move on. If you have any tips I'd appreciate it :)

[ForestGlade34]

yeah let them disagree, its their loss.

[kpickell]

Well for starters I don't know that it's a debate I would choose to enter. I'd probably start out by saying "It doesn't matter to me whether we were meant to eat meat or not. I choose not to for personal reasons, and I'm able to stay very healthy on a vegetarian diet. It is true that I do have to take vitamin supplements for Vitamin B12, and I do have to be mindful of my body's need for Omega 3 fatty acids, but I find both of those things very easy to do." The End.

Don't debate with someone that's just trying to insult you with stupid questions "Do you know anything about evolution"--just end the conversation with a simple paragraph that states your opinion and leave it at that. It's tempting to want to win every debate and prove all the skeptics wrong, but that'll leave you upset and frustrated.

[DerekOneppo]

True that, but I'm feeling for the other readers that may be on the fence about going vegetarian, but also want to build muscle.

[leminchyl]

I think I just have a tough time wording my responses in a scientific enough manner that will shut people like that down so the conversation can move on. If you have any tips I'd appreciate it :)

me, too. i tend to use opinion and things i've read that aren't necessarily scientific fact.

[ForestGlade34]

hmmm, been there lemin, lenningrad, can I call you lenningrad? :D

[SOFcowgirl]

Fish oil (fish being an animal) containing omega 3 fatty acids (being a fat) are not just for your heart. Your brain needs them to function.



... is said person saying that omega 3s are only found in fish? Because that's not true... wow. all that stuff you posted sounds like people think that all vegetarians will die of brain disorders or something! Stupid people, vegetarians live longer lives, and we don't keel over just because we don't take our cod liver oil every night.

[zoebird]

yeah, one of my mantras while talking to fitness people is "man, people can be ignorant."

i was talking with a woman who is a well known fitness trainer in our area who does a lot of great prenatal and post natal work. i wanted to talk to her to get some ideas about my own work (and my being pregnant) and what i might want to add, take out.

she knows i'm a well-known and well respected yoga teacher in the area, who also teaches a lot of prenatal and post natal with great, great, great results (similar to hers, but better in that i utilize yoga to basicly get rid of all pregnancy pains that have beent ossed at my by clients).

anyway, she started to rattle on about why I shouldn't do this or that yoga pose, how it's bad for me if pregnant, and blah blah blah.

while i know that someone just starting yoga when pregnant (ie, what general prenatal yoga classes are for) should do certain things (and not necessarily because they're pregnant, but also because they're NEW and they're pregnant), what is different is that i've been doing yoga for 27 years and i have a pretty good handle on my body, yoga in theory and practice, and over the past decade or so, i've taught numerous prenatal clients who were also experienced yoginis (and some in hot rooms as well!).

so, while she is right (just as the fish oil bit has some right information in it--the brain doesn't make dha/epa, but that doesn't mean that the body cannot make it and send it to the brain, or that there aren't other sources of dha, such as algea, that can get the same nutrients there, she is also crazy wrong.

and darn pushy about it all too.

and when i told her of my experience, she said "wlel, you've been lucky." and i said "no, i'm educated. i understand what yoga does." and truth is, i am more experienced/educated than she is--having been doing this for at least 8 years longer than she's been a fitness trainer (she got into it after she had diastasis recti and wanted to get rid of her "mummy tummy" and so she's focused in entirely on pre and post natal fitness).

ah well.

people can be ignorant.

[Mr. Sun]

True that, but I'm feeling for the other readers that may be on the fence about going vegetarian, but also want to build muscle.

Well, you can direct them to info contained in this thread -- lot's of vegan and vegetarian bodybuilders there: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=77739

And one of the featured bodybuilders is Joe DeMarco who started his own Q&A Bodybuilding thread here on VB: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=80742

Can't deny that people can build mass on a meat-free diet. Bill Pearl (featured in the first link I provided) won his final Mr. Universe title two years after becoming vegetarian.

[vegstrength]

We are on the cusp of alot of change.

Alot of people are turning Vegan for more reasons than animal rights. I for one, became Vegan for the environment and alot of others are doing the same.

In the next couple of decades I think you will hear less and less arguments, such as the "we need fish for our brain to function" one. People are waking up... it's just happening slowly is all.

[drjoe]

Well, you can direct them to info contained in this thread -- lot's of vegan and vegetarian bodybuilders there: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=77739

And one of the featured bodybuilders is Joe DeMarco who started his own Q&A Bodybuilding thread here on VB: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=80742

Can't deny that people can build mass on a meat-free diet. Bill Pearl (featured in the first link I provided) won his final Mr. Universe title two years after becoming vegetarian.

I also have a pretty well read thread in the nutrition section of bodybuilding.com. It is also a Q&A Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding thread. We have some very good discussions and sharing of information on that thread. 99% of it is all in a very positive light.

[Robert Cheeke]

Hey Dr.

Great to see you man. How are things? I love your stuff and hope you have an awesome year in 2008! When I'm out your way on tour I'll get in touch so we can train together.

There are a lot of anti-vegan people out there on mainstream forums and websites, especially fitness ones, so it's nice having Dr. Joe and others out there spreading a good message.

[tintin]

aaah this deff the place I should be right now
im really angry 'cause my internet closed halfway through typing a message
but nevermind
I guess I shall just start again
ANYWAY
what I was saying before I was rudely interupted by the internet spazzout
was that
I am also reeeeeally annoyed by the excuses people come up with
the newest one, was today
when talking to a girl I've known for a while
who said she tried being vegan once upon a time
but that she had to stop
because . . and wait this is the good part
'cause she trained . . . because she trained? what type of excuse is that
laugh . . out . . . loud . . . seriously
some people
not to be personal, but she didnt look like she done much training if you get what I mean
and I train myself
and all I have to do is scroll up and I can find a bunch of people in one thread who train (and I can probably positively say) more than her
and cope just fine
I myself used to do boxing and play rugby for my country
but anyway I guess this is losing its interest now,
I just thought it seemed rather appropriate
and damn annoying at the same time
hope your all cool anyway