Talking about attraction (split from "don't find best friend attractive")

[vata07]

i find this type of thing interesting. i was in a similar situation not too long ago. i had a serious crush (probably still do, :rolleyes: ) on a friend but she didn't feel the same way. i see tons of guys complaining about this.

it seems as if women's feelings never change. why is this?? why is it so necessary to have this instant sexual attraction from the beginning?? its almost as if the window of opportunity for a guy is the very beginning of a relationship or it will never happen in a romantic sense. i just never felt comfortable jumping someone in the beginning. i'd actually prefer to get to know someone first but it seems as if once this happens, the guy gets put into the "friend" category where he, more often than not, stays for good.

why is it that women, more so than men, are inclined to be this way??

[Smurfbabe]

I think it's the emphasis people in general put on physical appearance. I know when I was 18/19 there are certain guys I wouldn't have dated for the simple fact that my friends didn't find him 'attractive' enough. In order to be 'cool' the guy had to look good (no matter how much of an loser he turned out to be, and of course every single one WAS a loser). The nice sweet funny normal looking guys get passed by the wayside every time. I think girls can have a lot of influence over other girls and put more pressure on themselves and each other to be 'hot' and 'thin' and only date 'hot' guys. It's completely superficial and shallow, but most of us grow out of it.

On the other hand of course you want to be attracted to your partner, and some people you can learn to find attractive overtime and some people you will never find attractive no matter how good of a person they are. I always think as far as looks go, only expect someone who is about equal looking to yourself. People with similar genetics tend to pair up - it's human nature.

[Azazel12]

sexual attraction isn't even the only problem, Vata. Personally, I just had a thing with a long time friend (long time attraction) and we've always had a thing for each other physically. We've never acted on it, obviously.. but we've spoken of it. 2 some years we've been friends now, and for those years she's had a boyfriend that she just isn't willing to leave for taking a chance on us, despite all of the shortcomings of their relationship.

It's mental, I think. Not just chemical. A woman can be attracted to their best friend if they want to be, but unfortunately most don't want to be (at times). In my case, she is attracted to me for sure.. but can't seem to want to make anything happen.

Eitherway, any relationship that develops from a "best friends" type of situation seems to have some real amazing qualities, so I'm willing to wait - even if it means nothing with happen.

Also I am drunk atm, I apologize if this makes no sense at all.

[vata07]

Also I am drunk atm, I apologize if this makes no sense at all.
lol!!

i do disagree on the attraction part. i don't think women can "choose" to be attracted to anyone..if that were the case, TONS of women would be beating down my door as i type. i've had tons tell me how great i am, good sense of humour, attractive, nice and not needy, i challenge them, etc.. all the things they SAY they want but yet nothing happens.

i don't think you can rationalize attraction. i do however agree that people tend to go for those that most look like them for whatever reason (of course there are exceptions).

i also think that it is in fact the women that do the initiating and choosing and us guys think we have so much "game". women have their subtle ways of doing it. we just have to pick up on it.

[illyrianmoon]

lol!!

i do disagree on the attraction part. i don't think women can "choose" to be attracted to anyone..if that were the case, TONS of women would be beating down my door as i type. i've had tons tell me how great i am, good sense of humour, attractive, nice and not needy, i challenge them, etc.. all the things they SAY they want but yet nothing happens.


I'd have to agree. I think my love life would have been much simpler thus far if I could have just chosen to be attracted to someone. And the guys I've been attracted to in the past usually have been the funny, nerdy, all-shapes-and-sizes ones (they were just also sometimes gay and/or married and/or horrible for me). . . I don't think there's even a body type I think of as being "ideal". Still, I couldn't force myself to be attracted to whatever guy I encountered, even if we had a good rapport in other ways. There's an intangible quality, a spark (I know, maddeningly vague), that has to be there. And you can make out (etc.) with someone a hundred times, but if it isn't there, you can't force it to be. And believe me, I've tried! :o

I think a lot of women (and probably men too) would love to feel that way about their best friend, but it's not always in the cards. I'm lucky enough to have found it with my partner. It took a while and a lot of false starts. . . But it was worth waiting for.

[Chrysalis]

lol!!

i do disagree on the attraction part. i don't think women can "choose" to be attracted to anyone..if that were the case, TONS of women would be beating down my door as i type. i've had tons tell me how great i am, good sense of humour, attractive, nice and not needy, i challenge them, etc.. all the things they SAY they want but yet nothing happens.
Yes, same with me, except I'm a woman and guys tell me this, as well as telling me i'm good looking and would be a great girlfriend. Then they date someone else, even if I make it obvious I'm into them. So really I have no idea what it is. I had a guy once tell me he won't date a girl if he thinks she's really cool and has nothing wrong with her, because he wouldn't want to mess up a good friendship. Maybe girls are the same way? They won't try to date a guy if they think she's not good enough for him or afraid she will screw it up? I myself won't go after a guy who likes me if he has a personality trait that turns me off. I mean, the guy who likes me right now doesn't listen to me very well and that is a huge turn off to the point that I am not willing to put up with it. This thread does make me wonder though if I should relax my standards a little bit, concerning certain things.

[Azazel12]

I guess I came across wrong. I wasn't saying it was as simple as just choosing, I just meant, its not JUST physical - its mental as well. It may be that this person is physically attracted to you and personalities click, but something is making it hard for them to take that chance. It might also be vice versa as well. Where everything inside says you should be with this person, but physically they just don't do it for you.

my point wasn't that women could just choose (I was drunk, remember? haha) it was just that there is something in any example of things being perfect but not working, that is holding them back. Not necessarily just physical attraction, but something mental. They don't want it for some reason OR they're just not attracted. Not always just attraction.

[Jon_Veggie]

Hah, isn't life complicated? I'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes me *that* unsuccessful in finding a female partner. I'm not the world's most attractive guy, but I wouldn't say I am hideously ugly either. I like to think I am intelligent, polite, courteous, trustworthy and have a healthy sense of humour. These are all seemingly traits that women like and as I've mentioned, plenty of women have told me that I would make a great boyfriend, although nothing ever goes past the friendship stage with me.

Any suggestions?

:-/

[Azazel12]

It's all in the hug. It's all in how ya hug em.

[Jon_Veggie]

It's all in the hug. It's all in how ya hug em.

:wayne:

[jeff_veg]

Hah, isn't life complicated? I'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes me *that* unsuccessful in finding a female partner. I'm not the world's most attractive guy, but I wouldn't say I am hideously ugly either. I like to think I am intelligent, polite, courteous, trustworthy and have a healthy sense of humour. These are all seemingly traits that women like and as I've mentioned, plenty of women have told me that I would make a great boyfriend, although nothing ever goes past the friendship stage with me.

Any suggestions?

:-/

Yes. Your problem is that you are still getting your advice about what women want from women. It's true that women claim they want all these things, but the sad reality is that presenting these attributes to most women will cause them to either run for the hills or put you into the friend zone. It's not that they don't want things (because they do), it's just that they are not attracted to them.

You seem like a really nice guy. Have you ever heard a woman say "That guy is super hot because is just sooooo NICE!" ???

[asp3]

Yes, same with me, except I'm a woman and guys tell me this, as well as telling me i'm good looking and would be a great girlfriend. Then they date someone else, even if I make it obvious I'm into them.

I have had a number of women who I liked tell me after I got involved with someone else that they were interested in me and thought they had made it obvious. I never had a clue. I now say I need to be hit with a clue by four in order to know someone likes me.

I think that you might be overestimating the ability of guys to read "obvious" signals.

[kingsnorkie]

I have had a number of women who I liked tell me after I got involved with someone else that they were interested in me and thought they had made it obvious. I never had a clue. I now say I need to be hit with a clue by four in order to know someone likes me.

I think that you might be overestimating the ability of guys to read "obvious" signals.

:yes: I agree a thousand percent with this. I think a lot of guys are pretty clueless when it comes to subtle (or even obvious) signals, lord knows I certainly am. I pretty much need to be told outright or I'll just assume friendship.

[neut]

If he really loves you, you're a lucky girl

[Chrysalis]

Hah, isn't life complicated? I'm still trying to figure out what it is that makes me *that* unsuccessful in finding a female partner. I'm not the world's most attractive guy, but I wouldn't say I am hideously ugly either. I like to think I am intelligent, polite, courteous, trustworthy and have a healthy sense of humour. These are all seemingly traits that women like and as I've mentioned, plenty of women have told me that I would make a great boyfriend, although nothing ever goes past the friendship stage with me.

Any suggestions?

:-/
It's hard to say since every woman has her own set of ideals...I personally am attracted to men who are outgoing and confident, but in a way that is not arrogant or rude towards me. I also like to be chased, so that plays a factor as well, I mean I like a guy who won't give up on me just because I'm a little shy or don't say "yes" right away. Perseverence, yeah that's attractive. But not stalker. I also like a guy who is decisive (since I'm not) and does what he says he will do. Hmm yeah I don't know how helpful that is, but a lot of jerks have those qualities, and we all know how much women gravitate towards jerks.


I have had a number of women who I liked tell me after I got involved with someone else that they were interested in me and thought they had made it obvious. I never had a clue. I now say I need to be hit with a clue by four in order to know someone likes me.

I think that you might be overestimating the ability of guys to read "obvious" signals.
Yeah, possibly. Then again I also don't like very many guys lately, so it could be my results are due to small sample size.

dear lord i've been reading too many psychology articles

[rapt]

Yes. Your problem is that you are still getting your advice about what women want from women. It's true that women claim they want all these things, but the sad reality is that presenting these attributes to most women will cause them to either run for the hills or put you into the friend zone. It's not that they don't want things (because they do), it's just that they are not attracted to them.

Ive found this to be true. Especially with younger women. Ive only ever dated one woman who broke all the rules on this one and actually meant what she said.

[Thalia]

Yes. Your problem is that you are still getting your advice about what women want from women. It's true that women claim they want all these things, but the sad reality is that presenting these attributes to most women will cause them to either run for the hills or put you into the friend zone. It's not that they don't want things (because they do), it's just that they are not attracted to them.

You seem like a really nice guy. Have you ever heard a woman say "That guy is super hot because is just sooooo NICE!" ???

Hmmm. How do you know you actually have any of these attributes?

I think of "hot" meaning physically attractive. So no, I don't say, "He's is so Hot because he is nice."

Men confuse the idea of "nice" with low confidence, passivity, wishy-washyness, and being a pushover. What women mean when they say "nice" is respectful and considerate. And that doesn't mean the guy can't also be confident, fun, funny, outgoing, and many other things that are attractive to many women. I find a flirty, lively debate with an intelligent man who challenges and appreciates me, and demonstrates that he finds me attractive and sexy to indeed, be very hot. Of course many men are intimidated by a woman who demands that from a man, so they may save face by accusing me of not liking them because they are too "nice".

If "nice" means agreeing with everything I say, never giving me your opinion, saying you are sorry for everything, talking about how much you loathe yourself, or act like I am so much better than you and you are undeserving of me, then no, I am not attracted to "nice".

And of course there are women who can't stay away from men who are bad for them. Just like there are guys who seem to always go after high-maintenance, money and status grubbing women.

And finally, women are all different. If most women you know seem to not actually know what they want, maybe you ought to look for women with a little more maturity and experience. :)

[Azazel12]

I seem to have that lame complex where I am attracted to a woman I can "Save" from whatever massive emotional baggage they have in their life. I generally just end up being completely under appreciated and labelled the asshole when I finally get the balls to walk away from it.

I think I'm just gonna switch to guys. Anybody interested? We can watch some soccer, listen to some metal, watch an action flick and then I dunno, play rocket ships.

[jeff_veg]

Hmmm. How do you know you actually have any of these attributes?


How do I know? A lifetime of failure with women. And I don't just mean not getting women period, I mean dating lots of women and having them dump you time and time again for no tangible reason. Since I'm not hideous looking, healthy, intelligent, successful, independent, have a fairly active life and plenty of interests, I have pretty much narrowed down the problem to how I act around women.

You are bang on that the wishy washy, doormat, "nice" guy is not what women want. I've been this guy at times, or I should say I've acted like this guy at times, because I've never really been that guy but for a long time I thought that was what women wanted.

But even your respectful and considerate traits won't really get a guy anywhere. At best these are neutral traits. Women don't want respectful, they want to be teased. Women don't want considerate, they want a guy who will do unexpected things for no reason. And let's examine the opposite of your nice traits - the "attractive" traits: confident (arrogant maybe), aggressive, decisive, and tells you what to do. Sounds like a jerk to me. But I don't disagree that this is what works.


I find a flirty, lively debate with an intelligent man who challenges and appreciates me, and demonstrates that he finds me attractive and sexy to indeed, be very hot.


This is bang on as well (you are an exception to my rule about no advice about women from women!), but the key word in that sentence is "challenge." I'd say its like 90% challenge her and 10% appreciate her (the opposite of what most guys would naturally intuit). For all my talk, I find this the hardest part, because I completely adore women, and have this mentality like I would never do anything to hurt them, including teasing and challenging. This my own issue, but I was teased a lot as kid, and so to me this is a hurtful thing to do a person, yet women seem to eat it up.

I find the whole thing a little exhausting actually. You mean I have to act like a freaking jerkass the rest of my life??? What if I sort of like being easy going and agreeable? Anyways, I do agree that older women would probably drop a bunch of the games. The last girl I dated was very immature, played a ton of games, and in the end was very cruel, which is maybe why some of my opinions are a little on the extreme right now.

[Isabelle]

I think I'm just gonna switch to guys. Anybody interested? We can watch some soccer, listen to some metal, watch an action flick and then I dunno, play rocket ships.

Heh, that's funny. Those are some of the things my boyfriend and I enjoy doing together. :p

[Azazel12]

You guys play rocket ships? that is awesome.

[Jon_Veggie]

I give up, I tell you, sheesh. It just seems that us poor men can't win. We are nice and it gets us nowhere, being labelled as 'weak' or 'a pushover' and if we are jerks then seemingly women will date us but not like us and wish we would change.

Incidentally my one and only gf dumped me out of the blue for being 'too nice', despite saying she loved me and was so glad she had found someone as nice as me, after her previous partners (wtf?)

All this has my head in knots and leaves me more despondent than ever. I may just buy an online bride if I ever earn enough money lol!!

:help:

[Azazel12]

Sometimes the "asshole" factor applies when it comes to relationships.

A fair amount of people get more out of a dominant asshole than a caring companion. Then again some people just like to fall for something completely foreign to them and then realize its just too foreign.

There is no use in giving up, but you might as well buy a fleshlight while you wait. It may be a while for us.

[Marie]

I've used the "you're a nice guy but it's not really working out" line. It was really because he didn't smell so great and he had a lot of annoying habits. I just didn't feel like getting into it.

[vata07]

Men confuse the idea of "nice" with low confidence, passivity, wishy-washyness, and being a pushover. What women mean when they say "nice" is respectful and considerate. And that doesn't mean the guy can't also be confident, fun, funny, outgoing, and many other things that are attractive to many women.
haha..and i think women continue to confuse the fact that men don't confuse what "nice" means. women also continue to confuse the fact that men just don't come in two shades; we're simple but not that simple, lol!! a lot of women think men either come in "nice" (wishy washy) or "bad" (confident, physically attractive). the problem is that this is not the case. the vast majority of men actually fit somewhere between and possibly possess characteristics of both groups. the impression i get is that women look for certain characteristics and proceed to group the men in either group accordingly. for instance if a guy does what he says and says what he does and doesn't play games and treats her well they automatically assume that its only a matter of time before the other "qualities" shows up (needy/clingyness, having his life revolve around her, etc.). so the poor guy is dumped immediately before she even gives him a chance.

the fact is there are tons of nice (yes NICE!!) guys out there that are just regular guys that don't agree with EVERYTHING you say or act needy. yes i am one of the real NICE guys out there and i'm anything but clingy.... and i know tons of guys out there like me (all are taken though..i'm the last one left out of all my friends..:( ).




If "nice" means agreeing with everything I say, never giving me your opinion, saying you are sorry for everything, talking about how much you loathe yourself, or act like I am so much better than you and you are undeserving of me, then no, I am not attracted to "nice".

And of course there are women who can't stay away from men who are bad for them. Just like there are guys who seem to always go after high-maintenance, money and status grubbing women.

And finally, women are all different. If most women you know seem to not actually know what they want, maybe you ought to look for women with a little more maturity and experience. :)

I find a flirty, lively debate with an intelligent man who challenges and appreciates me, and demonstrates that he finds me attractive and sexy to indeed, be very hot. Of course many men are intimidated by a woman who demands that from a man, so they may save face by accusing me of not liking them because they are too "nice".

If "nice" means agreeing with everything I say, never giving me your opinion, saying you are sorry for everything, talking about how much you loathe yourself, or act like I am so much better than you and you are undeserving of me, then no, I am not attracted to "nice".
see my previous post (sorry if it seems i'm singling you out, :angel: ) but there was this girl i was "hanging out" with that said all of these things about me. i was sweet, charming, i challenged her and all that fun stuff but in the end she really didn't like anything about me...she hates my body type for one thing (lean/slender, ripped abs, shapely upper body, etc.), and she never gets my sense of humour that other people seem to like. i still have a crush on her and a part of me just doesn't want to give up but the writing is on the wall...sometimes you do everything right and still come up short.