The Golden Compass (spoilers)

[imthebaker]

I'm not sure if anyone has talked about this yet but...You guys have probaly heard of the movie called The Golden Compass with Nicole Kidman. The movie is based off books which were made into a trilogy. I'd actually be interested in reading them. I heard and read a bit that the author of the books hated C.S Lewis, who made Chronicles of Narnia, and made these books to bash him and Christianity. I aslo read that in the last book the characters end up killing God. How do you kill God? Some people are boycotting the movie b/c of this and his anti-God ways but I'd be interested in seeing how the movie turns out.

[Idhan]

I guess I don't mind a bit of subtle anti-theism, but Pullman is, IMHO, too didactic and crude to make his novels really enjoyable reading. At least, that's what I found, but perhaps I'm just too old for them. There's a point where you just want to yell, "okay! I get the point!"

Spoilers ahead:

Another thing I didn't like was discussions of the nature of the Dust. (an important symbolic/pseudoscientific "soulstuff" substance in the series) The discussions of Dust seemed to imply that children and animals aren't really sentient. (I've tried to find another way of interpretting it, but haven't figured out a way; if someone knows a more palatable interpretation, tell me.)

God ("The Authority") in His Dark Materials is not the omnipotent, omniscient creator of all. He is basically an angel (Dust agglomeration) who has set himself up as a dictator who forces humans to worship him and other angels to do his bidding. However, as of the time of the trilogy, he is extremely old and decrepit, and most practical affairs of heaven have been turned over to his second in command, Metatron. Metatron presents a significant challenge, but the Authority himself actually dies pretty much without a fight.

[rapt]

Itd wanna be good for Kidmans sake. It seems like shes been the kiss of death for a few movies lately.

[Kiz]

She's not exactly a talented actress and she's not particularly good at picking winners. With the amount of $$$$$ she has I honestly don't care whether or not this movie flops or not. It's not like she needs the money or the work.

[Iria]

I really enjoyed the books. I've read some articles on the controversy and without giving any spoilers, I'll try to explain what I think. The book do portray the Church in a bad light. I can see why the Church doesn't like this. They basically say that men got it wrong, and now they're running things for their own benefit rather than for the benefit of mankind. However, the God in the books (called the Authority) isn't supposed to be the real God. Okay, I lied. I'm using a spoiler here, but I don't think this a major plot point that will ruin the books. The Authority is an usurper, and the real God is more of a formless, voiceless presence who goes by several names in the story. He/She/It does care for humanity and nurtures us and really is a part of us and we're a part of it. It's not a typical view of God, but it's not a negative one in my opinion. The "God" who is killed is really the imposter who calls himself the Authority, and in the end he goes to the same "heaven" as everyone else, becoming one with God.

I think the whole series is entertaining and clever, and I don't think it's supposed to be taken literally. I don't think Pullman set out to "kill God." I think he was making a statement about the modern views of religion, but I think the story was mostly to entertain and to show children what is important--not being selfish and only working to get yourself into heaven (or to get material goods), but to be willing to sacrifice your own happiness to help others. It really has a strong message, IMO.

[Idhan]

It seemed to me that some of the good guys speculated that there might be a real creator God, or there might not be, but the Authority certainly wasn't it. I don't remember anyone credible in the series definitively establishing that there was a real God higher than the Authority, but maybe I'm misremembering. Do you remember who claims that there's a real, higher God whom the Authority impersonates?

[Iria]

It seemed to me that some of the good guys speculated that there might be a real creator God, or there might not be, but the Authority certainly wasn't it. I don't remember anyone credible in the series definitively establishing that there was a real God higher than the Authority, but maybe I'm misremembering. Do you remember who claims that there's a real, higher God whom the Authority impersonates?

I always assumed Dust was God.

[rabid_child]

I really enjoyed the books and I'm looking forward to the movie. I think the controversy is absurd. It's fiction.

[imthebaker]

would you recommend reading the books? And the movie kinda did remind me of chronicles of narnia, would you say they were kinda in that same fantasy realm?

[Tofu-N-Sprouts]

I wasn't a huge fan of the books overall. There are some good parts and actually a couple passages I love, but mainly I felt they were trying to be copies of the whole Narnia series (which are allegories) and just plain trying too hard.

As far as the anti-theology theory, by the time you read The Amber Spyglass, it's more than obvious. The author is a good writer, but he's so focused on getting his message (however you want to interpret it) across that the book hardly has a plot by that point. Basically some good writing is ruined by the author losing track of the whole 'allegory' concept and hitting you over the head with his blatant distaste for the God of Judaism and Christianity.
Just my thoughts there.

[Spidergrrl]

I just wanted to say that I had lunch with Phillip Pullman in 2002 and I said that I really couldn't get into His dark materials trilogy so could he recomend something else he had written. her suggested his Sally Lockhart series and i fell in love with those books.

I just cannot get into this series. i have tried repetedly. it it seems so --I dunno--"on the nose"--trying too hard. And the end of book 3 Lyra "grows up" makes steam come outof my ears.

Just my 2p. (and a chance to say I've had lunch with Phillip Pullman--ha ha)

[Chrysalis]

I really enjoyed the books. I do not think it is anti-god at all, but is instead anti-church. I think it is supportive of the idea of god...from what I understand, they do not kill god. People are completey misinterpreting the book if they think that's what happens. I'm a little too tired to make a coherant argument...anyway, I saw the movie last weekend and I thought it was terrible.

[Idhan]

I think that both the church and the Authority himself -- and, to some extent, the concept of god itself -- are all opposed in His Dark Materials. It's a bit like Pratchett's Small Gods (although I think Small Gods is better), where the Omnian Church has become concerned only with its own power, and has lost any real faith in its god Om, but at the same time it doesn't ignore the fact that Om was a rather evil god in the first place, and brought many of his probems upon himself.

[Chrysalis]

Upon further thought, I think the Golden Compass is about saving God because the church is ignorant and does not understand what god IS, and by trying to get closer to god, they are just getting closer to destroying him/her/it.

major spoiler
My interpretation: The church wants to get rid of dust in order to erase original sin. In order for this to happen they must prevent "Eve" (lyra) from "falling",or giving into temptation. If they are successful in stopping her, however, human beings will no longer be conscious. Consciousness exists because of dust, but the church doesn't seem to realize that or care. In book two when the dust was talking to Mary the scientist, it admitted that it is basically the same thing as god. The dust also was very supportive of Lyra succeeding in her task; it didn't want the church to stop her.Therefore, the church was trying to get rid of God, and God him/her/itself was opposed to the church. Oh, and The Authority is not god. He pretends to be but he is cruel and evil, and the church is fooled by him and worships him. Destroying him saves many souls from suffering. For example, he created an underworld of pain and suffering where everyone goes when they die, regardless of how good they were in life. There is no such thing as heaven; only hell. When he died, people were finally free, and it allowed dust(god) to exist as it should. It's ironic.

I really do think that this series is not anti-god at all but is instead against extremist religions. It makes me laugh to see the church in real life trying to silence this movie; they aren't behaving any more tolerant than the evil church in the book and they are too thickheaded to see it! If I had the books with me I would insert all sorts of quotations to support my points haha.

[misq17]

On the topic of the movie: I went today and I really enjoyed it. I think I might have been a little confused if I hadn't read first, but overall it was well done. Almost all of the computer enhanced scenes (the bears, daemons, fighting, etc.) was of a very high quality. I was a little afraid that the whole thing would be really cheesy, but I was pleasantly surprised.

[ryudo2]

Am I the only one who fell madly in love with the book the moment it popped up at the annual school book fair?? I'm a devout CAtholic, but the contents of the book didn't make me feel like I'm cheating on God....isn't it possible to just see the God in this book as a wild spin-off coming from the author's creativity???

[zoebird]

i loved the books from when i first read it. i knew nothing about the author when i read it, or his other works, and i just loved this series from the beginning.

[Rincewind]

Oh, I loved the books, but I've been 'forbidden' to see the movie, because, of course, if I do I shall go straight to hell, or be struck down by lightning. Not sure which formally-pagan thing we're going to go with. I'm thinking lightning. More theatrical.

[vigilant20]

I'm not going to see the movie because of the authors need to publicize his religious intolerance. Just can't support that.

[troub]

I want to see the movie, even more-so that evangelical groups have spoke out against seeing it. In fact, it was their publicity that I first heard of it.

I find it quite humorous that from a movie that depicts the church as a body of control, some church groups are reacting by telling people not to see it. Not all churches are doing this of course, I don't mean to generalize.

[ilupeanutbutter]

yeah i agree.

i didnt think the movie was very good to be honest. i think they blurred the themes from book too much and it made a lot of the elements in the plot seem arbitrary and/or ambiguous.

[Lucious]

I saw the movie on Thursday, and intend to read the books. I very much enjoyed it. I like themes that twist reality to make us see the world differently.

[gillibean]

I saw the movie on Thursday, and intend to read the books. I very much enjoyed it. I like themes that twist reality to make us see the world differently.

The books are quite good. I've read them all a few times.

[badboy7]

never heard of this movie... :P what is the story all about..?