A Bit of a Different Kind of Vegan

[benkees]

I was hoping I could please pick your friendly heads for knowledge regarding the existence of organizations that advocate a mostly vegan lifestyle as a strict boycott of the industrial factory farming system yet condone the personal slaughter of animals for sustenance purposes. In other words, does an organization that advocates this ideology exist?

Thanks, friends.

[michael2]

i doubt it, vegan isnt just opposing factory farming it opposes using nonhumans for food/paint etc

[benkees]

i doubt it, vegan isnt just opposing factory farming it opposes using nonhumans for food/paint etc

Sorry if my title misdirected the answers I'm looking for. I didn't mean to claim that what this organization advocates would be considered a vegan diet (though your definition is far from what vegan is. Vegan doesn't inherently oppose anything).

[Beachbnny]

I was hoping I could please pick your friendly heads for knowledge regarding the existence of organizations that advocate a mostly vegan lifestyle as a strict boycott of the industrial factory farming system yet condone the personal slaughter of animals for sustenance purposes. In other words, does an organization that advocates this ideology exist?

Thanks, friends.

Could you elaborate on that a bit? I think you want to know if there's an organization that condones sustainable farming including animal slaughter on a personal level but I could be wrong.

And for the record, the term "vegan" does mean opposing the eating and using of animals be it for ethical, environmental, or health reasons. Just FYI. :D

[cryptoveggie]

I was hoping I could please pick your friendly heads for knowledge regarding the existence of organizations that advocate a mostly vegan lifestyle as a strict boycott of the industrial factory farming system yet condone the personal slaughter of animals for sustenance purposes. In other words, does an organization that advocates this ideology exist?

Thanks, friends.

I don't know of any organizations such as the one you describe, but I wouldn't consider them vegan. Most vegans will tell you that they oppose any form of animal exploitation, regardless of whatever measures are taken to minimize suffering. And I wouldn't imagine that an organization that advocates the strict boycott of the industrial factory farming would deem it necessary to condone personal slaughter. Most organizations focus on what they are against.

The term "sustainable agriculture" does comes to mind, describing a system where minimum harm is done to the land. That would definitely exclude intensive confinement. The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_agriculture) has a number of external links at the bottom of the page. You could try looking there first.

[IamJen]

I don't know of an organization, but there are some authors such as Matthew Scully, the guy who wrote Dominion that would advocate such ideas. I would wager too, that some of the folks at Vegan Outreach might get down with the idea of "sustainable agriculture".

[benkees]

Thanks for the helpful responses.

As for sustainable agriculture, I've done a fair amount of research on the thing and I believe it's a progressive step, no doubt, but it's not something I could support right now due its commodification of the beings. Related to the commidification is that sustainable agriculture still supports the disconnect between the consumer and the producer which, in the way I see it, inevitably steers the agricultural system back towards the inhumane practices of the present agribusiness.

I was just hoping anyone knew of any groups or people (Jen mentioned an author I'll look into) that believe that animal slaughter itself is not the most important problem in the search for peace but rather it is the disconnect and objectification of the animals that is the most pressing issue.

Again, thanks for the constructive posts.

[LionSpirit]

Thanks for the helpful responses.

As for sustainable agriculture, I've done a fair amount of research on the thing and I believe it's a progressive step, no doubt, but it's not something I could support right now due its commodification of the beings. Related to the commidification is that sustainable agriculture still supports the disconnect between the consumer and the producer which, in the way I see it, inevitably steers the agricultural system back towards the inhumane practices of the present agribusiness.

I was just hoping anyone knew of any groups or people (Jen mentioned an author I'll look into) that believe that animal slaughter itself is not the most important problem in the search for peace but rather it is the disconnect and objectification of the animals that is the most pressing issue.

Again, thanks for the constructive posts.

By slaughtering an animal though, you're still seeing them as an object who's life isn't worth anything - they're just there to satisfy your tastebuds (not to feed you, as that can obviously be done without killing animals).

If you want people who share your ideas, I suggest you try message boards with more meat-eaters on them, as some don't like the way animals are treated in factory farming but are happy to continue eating animals.

[panthera]

Peter Singer (Animal Liberation) is mostly vegan because he believes that animal agriculture engenders suffering. But he's stated that theoretically at least, if someone could ensure that an animal did not suffer, then it could be OK to consume it.

That's why actual ARA's excoriate him. He's the head ARI - Animal Rights (Int'l? Inst?) so check him out.

[peace]

By slaughtering an animal though, you're still seeing them as an object who's life isn't worth anything - they're just there to satisfy your tastebuds (not to feed you, as that can obviously be done without killing animals).

:yes: For many people here, taking a life to satisfy your tastebud preferences and not for survival, is still going to be disconnect and objectification of that being.

[sleepydvdr]

The term vegan should remain pure! To me, it means to avoid all animal derived products that you are reasonably able to.

From what you describe, you wouldn't even get call yourself a vegetarian at all. You are just an omni who kills his own animals. However, I respect that more than the masses of people who can't stand the sight of slaughter. They just want someone else to do it for them while they throw steak sauce on their dinner. At least you get to experience the horror for yourself and somewhat realize what you are doing. Maybe someday it will get to you and maybe you will decide to give it up.

[benkees]

The term vegan should remain pure! To me, it means to avoid all animal derived products that you are reasonably able to.

From what you describe, you wouldn't even get call yourself a vegetarian at all. You are just an omni who kills his own animals. However, I respect that more than the masses of people who can't stand the sight of slaughter. They just want someone else to do it for them while they throw steak sauce on their dinner. At least you get to experience the horror for yourself and somewhat realize what you are doing. Maybe someday it will get to you and maybe you will decide to give it up.

Oh, I don't slaughter animals right now. I've done it in the past, however, but have been vegan for 3 years. Over that time my views have changed, slightly, and considering the hypoglycemia I was recently diagnosed with I've dipped back into my ideals and stirred them around a bit, seeing what floats up to the surface.

I'm not introducing meat into my diet whatsoever. Right now I'm looking to source eggs from local citizens that raise truly free range chickens because my roommates in this college area won't allow me to personally raise them (as I have throughout my entire childhood). I was hoping I could read on up some organizations and perhaps learn some more about the personal slaughter option for later in life, if it becomes any kind of necessity for me. I would have liked to talk to some people who may have similar experiences to what I'm going through. I know what vegans/vegetarians will tell me because I am one, have researched the ethics, and been in leadership positions in local AR organizations.

Also, my iron is low and, though not anemic, my supplements haven't been keeping up. For the last three years I have been the most educated and healthy eating vegetarian I know or have ever met and still iron deficiency has become a problem. It may be related to the hypoglycemia that runs in my family that has hit me now at age 21 -- the same age it hit my aunts, uncles, and father.

I need to cure my hypoglycemia before it turns into a case of diabetes and if I don't cure myself I'm simply killing another animal (myself). I've spent over a year of my life in a state of confusion, irritability, and chronic fatigue because of a lack of glucose getting to my brain. Now I'm going to do what I have to in respect with my ideals in order to be healthy again. I agree that to use animals simply for the taste is ridiculous. I would never sanction such an act. Like I said, I'm looking now to source as humane of an egg as I can and in the future provide eggs for myself with free range chickens that I take care of.

Like I said just after my topic post, I didn't mean for it to sound as if a person who participates in the slaughter and eating of animals is a vegetarian at all. I admitted that my title was not the best frame. I tried to say that it's obviously a DIFFERENT type of vegan (as in one who boycotts the farming of animals and especially factory farming. Obviously not a vegan who, let me make clear once more, is NOT one opposed to ANYTHING, but one who abstains from the use of animal products).

It's strange to me that it's been assumed so readily that my throwing around these ideas was simply for the sake of my taste buds. I've been around the block, puhleeze :tame: :) I wouldn't somewhat realize what I was doing, I would be fully aware.

[Jennifer N]

Also, my iron is low and, though not anemic, my supplements haven't been keeping up. For the last three years I have been the most educated and healthy eating vegetarian I know or have ever met and still iron deficiency has become a problem. It may be related to the hypoglycemia that runs in my family that has hit me now at age 21 -- the same age it hit my aunts, uncles, and father.


Haemochromatosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemochromatosis) runs in my Scandinavian family line. Maybe we could work out some sort of iron exchange? :)

[LovelyPerv]

I've "cleaned" a number of my own food-animals before, too. It's the way I was raised, and I was always told it was safer and healthier.

Most Veg*ns I've talked to are naturally appalled by this. But, I can't help but be struck by the hypocrisy when other omni's (my friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc...) freak out completely :spew: when they find out that the chicken we're grilling was killed in my own back yard. They would ESPECIALLY freak out if they were SAW the chicken when it was alive! People ask "How can you stand doing that?"

Most people choose to live with thier heads in the sand, and detach themselves from whatever reality they find uncomfortable.

When I decided to detach from out agriculture industry...and NEVER again voluntarily purchase leather, meat, milk, or eggs from any companies or corporations...I chose to also eliminate local family farm eggs and chickens. However, I have a great deal of respect for anyone who chooses to drive a little farther, in order to buy happy chickens and their happy eggs.

[panthera]

benkees, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with your health. And I thought your posts made clear that you were just asking about orgs that boycotted factory farming, rather than arguing that they should also be called vegan, so I don't see why people are accusing you!

Have you checked with Peter Singer's group? In fact, many welfare organizations should fit the bill - welfare just concentrates on the suffering, not on the fact of use. HSUS should be perfect for what you ask.

[evelinadatta]

It may be related to the hypoglycemia that runs in my family that has hit me now at age 21 -- the same age it hit my aunts, uncles, and father.

I need to cure my hypoglycemia before it turns into a case of diabetes and if I don't cure myself I'm simply killing another animal (myself).

I am sorry to hear about your health issues... :worried: But since it sounds like this is something that runs in your family and your aunts, uncles and father have gotten it (I assume they are omnis), why do you think that switching away from vegan diet is going to help?

This is not related to your original question, but in the China Study there is a chapter that talks about the link between diet and diebetes... I have not read it in full detail but it could be helpful.