Science Classes/Disection

[lovemyveggies]

Hello, i encountered this in a college biology class and was wondering if anyone else had a similar situation. Each week we had labs and had to do a specific experiment or project. One of the experiments was to get a live mouse place it in a jar with a deadly cottonball, then watch what happened to mouse while he died. I refused to participate in the experiment, each student had to kill his/her own mouse. I told the professor it was against my beliefs and I left the classroom. I couldn't stomach the whole situation. I received a F on this specific assignment and ending up making a C in the class. Has this ever happened to anyone? What would you have done?

[leminchyl]

we only had to dissect a worm in class and it was already dead. can you go talk to the department head? i'd talk to the teacher to see if you can do an alternate project, then work up to the department head, then the president of the university. keep moving up and making a stink about it, then if you want to, get peta involved.

[michael2]

juliet gellately president of viva writes in her book how she did the same thing during her education, walking out of those classes.

[Kiz]

One of the experiments was to get a live mouse place it in a jar with a deadly cottonball, then watch what happened to mouse while he died.

Completely disregarding morals and ethics that has to be one of the most stupid "experiments" I've heard of. "Deadly cottonball?" Where did this teacher get his/her degree? The back of a cornflakes box? What were you meant to be learning, anyway, apart from just watching mice die for no apparent purpose?

[sybaritik]

^^ Yeah....I've never heard of a school/college experiment before that actually includes killing the subject. Normally they're already dead.


What would you have done?

Exactly the same thing as you. Refused to participate and left the room :up:

I would also make a complaint to the head of the dept. (in writing)

[michael2]

Exactly the same thing as you. Refused to participate and left the room

I would also make a complaint to the head of the dept. (in writing)

youve got more self contol than me i would lose it in that situation

[Jon_Veggie]

Many moons ago (long before I was vegan) I dissected a fish in a Biology class. I still think of how pointless an exercise it was and how we could have easily learned via a computer simulation etc.

Can't see the relevance of dissections in college classes to be honest.

[Fromper]

I would definitely complain in writing to that teacher's boss. If that doesn't get results, move up the chain to the dean, the president of the school, etc. If you still don't get any results, get PETA and the press involved.

--Fromper
:juggle:

[Bells]

Can't see the relevance of dissections in college classes to be honest.

It depends on what you want to be. If you want to be a doctor, simulations are not going to be enough. A simulation is not going to be what it's like in real life.

I would like to be a doctor one day, and I realize that if this is really what I want to do, I am going to have to dissect. Actually, I already have in my zoology class... I've dissected a worm, grasshopper, fetal pig, crayfish, sheep eyeball and brain, squid, and a mussel. Eventually I will dissect a shark and a cat.

I do not enjoy this, but I learn more from dissecting than looking at a textbook or diagram.

That being said, I would not do this on something alive. I too would have walked out of the room, or at least refused to participate in the lesson.

[lovemyveggies]

This was a few years ago when I was still in college so I really don't remember what the point of the experiment was. I just remember reading the assignment and it said to take notes on what was happening to the mouse after 1, 2, 3 mintues in the jar with the cottonball, basically we had to watch the mouse die and write down what we observed the mouse doing as he died. i left after the professor explained the lesson to us. i left before i even saw a mouse. it's just bothered me after all these years that that happened and i was the only one that walked away. 15-30 mice lost their lives that day and i think about it all the time, i guess i kinda regret not doing more for them. just wondering if anyone else was ever in the same situation. i was a nutrition major for those of you who asked.

[Irizary]

It depends on what you want to be. If you want to be a doctor, simulations are not going to be enough. A simulation is not going to be what it's like in real life.

I would like to be a doctor one day, and I realize that if this is really what I want to do, I am going to have to dissect. Actually, I already have in my zoology class... I've dissected a worm, grasshopper, fetal pig, crayfish, sheep eyeball and brain, squid, and a mussel. Eventually I will dissect a shark and a cat.

I do not enjoy this, but I learn more from dissecting than looking at a textbook or diagram.

That being said, I would not do this on something alive. I too would have walked out of the room, or at least refused to participate in the lesson.

You can get into any medical school in the country with core courses that do NOT require dissection. If you were dissecting, it was because you chose to have that experience, not because your career choice required it.

[Bells]

You can get into any medical school in the country with core courses that do NOT require dissection. If you were dissecting, it was because you chose to have that experience, not because your career choice required it.

Some medical schools do not require dissection, but they still require that you examine pre-dissected bodies and body parts.

It's sort of like if someone was learning to be an auto mechanic. How would that person learn better: reading a manual and watching a videotape or spending time taking apart an engine and putting it back together?

[michael2]

people donate their bodies to medical research when they die. if we dont dissect humans who were alive (kill them) for research, we shouldnt do so to nonhumans.

[Jon_Veggie]

It depends on what you want to be. If you want to be a doctor, simulations are not going to be enough. A simulation is not going to be what it's like in real life.

I would like to be a doctor one day, and I realize that if this is really what I want to do, I am going to have to dissect. Actually, I already have in my zoology class... I've dissected a worm, grasshopper, fetal pig, crayfish, sheep eyeball and brain, squid, and a mussel. Eventually I will dissect a shark and a cat.

I do not enjoy this, but I learn more from dissecting than looking at a textbook or diagram.

That being said, I would not do this on something alive. I too would have walked out of the room, or at least refused to participate in the lesson.

I fail to see how dissecting dead animals is essential to allow someone to train to be a doctor and help sick *humans*. There is an enormous amount of scientific evidence against the valdity of using animals in human medicine. Please have a look at the following links:


Dr. Ray Greeks' organisation, a physician and instructor in medicine who is against all forms of animal based research:


www.curedisease.com


Quotes from other doctors against animal research:


http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/dav.html


Former British Doctor Vernon Coleman's site:


http://www.vernoncoleman.com/main.htm


Doctors and Lawyers for Responsible Medicine (Formerly Doctors in Britain against Animal Experiments):

http://www.dlrm.org/about.htm


British Anti-Vivisection Association:

http://www.bava.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/


Europeans for Medical Progress:

http://www.curedisease.net/


British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection:

http://www.buav.org/a_about.php


Vivisection Absurd, an analysis of whether vivisection has any scientific merit or can be ethically defended:

http://vivisection-absurd.org.uk/menun.html


Also check out Dr. Jerry Vlasak, a trauma surgeon and committed animal activist in the US.

[Jon_Veggie]

Some medical schools do not require dissection, but they still require that you examine pre-dissected bodies and body parts.

It's sort of like if someone was learning to be an auto mechanic. How would that person learn better: reading a manual and watching a videotape or spending time taking apart an engine and putting it back together?

Exactly, but using animals to learn about human medicine is like asking that auto mechanic to work on a steam train or aeroplane on order to learn about automobiles. 'Similar', yet fundamentally very different :yes:

[James_B]

I talked to the department head of my high school when this subject came out. I explained my moral stances and how it was basically against my religion/ethics and we came to a compromise that if I submitted a complete written (with diagrams) report on the biology and dissection of frogs then I wouldn't have to dissect one.

I got an A and they didn't have an article written about them in the local newspaper (hint hint) :naughty:

[Iscah]

We dissected cats at my highschool. I participated. This was back before I was a veggie and before my thinking about animals had changed. Our teacher gave us the option of not participating but I remember (if my memory is not fuzzy) him having a "It's going to be a pain to do an alternate assignment" tone in his voice. I don't know...kind of like it would be silly to not participate. Now that I think of it, I feel ashamed that I participated. And I actually liked it, too. Now when I think of it, I feel sad. :( We had to skin them, cut their tails off...there was even a pregnant one (and the students who had that one named the dead baby kittens and held them). It seems so disturbing now...

If I took a class like that where killing mice was an 'experiment' I would be outraged. It's not even happening to me and I feel outraged. I don't even know if I would take the class with the same teacher. I would definitely write letters and protest. I can see myself getting very upset...and maybe even letting my mouth get the best of me.

[Jay_Bunny]

I have dissected many animals during my education. In biology, I dissected a pregnant shark, a cat, mudpuppy, perch, frog, sheeps eye, pigs heart, grasshopper, starfish, sea cucumber, crawfish, fetal pig, ...the list really goes on and on.

I didn't like the actual act of dissecting but I do think I learned something. I now, will not dissect any animals but I don't think I'll ever have a class that does it now that I've gotten zoology behind me.