earth first! and similar groups

[stonecrest]

how do people feel about radical environmental groups like earth first! that perform ecotage and monkey wrenching (i.e. sabotaging logging equipment, spiking trees, etc.)? i've heard that the sierra club's and the greenpeace's are secretly glad to have these radical environmentalists around because it makes their platform look more moderate. then again, many people would suggest that these moderate groups are too quick to compromise and don't do enough.

anyway, i assume that a lot of people disagree with the ideology behind radical environmentalism (which is why they're considered radical, no?), but at what point do we need to start becoming more aggressive to take a stand? how much environmental damage must be caused before we say enough is enough? are these kinds of tactics ever justified or do we have to let the world diminism into complete wasteland such that we do not participate in such "immoral" actions?

[epski]

i believe that people should live by the golden rule. Don't destroy my property, I won't destroy yours.

If these companies tracked down those eco-terrorists, as they're lovingly called, and wiped out their checking accounts, stole their cars, and burned down their homes, would it be right? I don't think so. I think the ends rarely justify the means, unlike most people. Talk about a "slippery" slope.

[stonecrest]

i don't think these environmentalists would argue with that golden rule in the least bit. however, they'd believe that these companies are destroying their property, the earth. doesn't the earth belong to all of us?

[epski]

Originally posted by stonecrest
i don't think these environmentalists would argue with that golden rule in the least bit. however, they'd believe that these companies are destroying their property, the earth. doesn't the earth belong to all of us?

Sure, I agree with you a 1000%, but we don't live in a society that agrees with us. Property rights are very important in our culture, and there are laws to protect that, while there a very few laws protecting the earth, which does belong to all of us. It sickens me how much we take it for granted in our exploitation.

But, I don't feel it's morally correct to break the laws of my society, even if I disagree with them. It's morally correct to try and change those laws.

[anodekraft]

In my heart of hearts, I just think what they are doing is great. I wouldn't feel that way if I didn't know what the "other side" does to harm the environment...maybe not intentionally but in order to scrape a few more cents out of the system. I don't like murder, and I would hate a bombing campaign or somthing similar, but destroying equipment? I have a hard time condeming that when I balance the harm that would happen otherwise.

[epski]

Last night I actually had an omni (considering going vegan) ask me, "You don't think the ends justify the means?"

When can they? You can justify any action by pointing out that it was for some higher purpose. Look at The Crusades.

Break these laws, and why obey any laws?

[Siet36]

I think that I am lucky to live in a democratic country that will allow me to voice my opinion. So the law should not be broken, letting anger and frustration over whelm you because things are not going your way is not very logical. All you can do is fight the good fight and if it dosen't work at least you've tried.

[Vegantastic]

I have a conflict with that. One voice in my head is happy with those groups and want to do the same, and the other voice is saying to do legal actions and don't destroy property.

It is difficult.

I understand the people who are doing it, but I think they can go to far. And people who are setting property under fire are not thinking correctly. Fire is also not so good for the environment.

[TreeManEarthSteward]

There must be loads of groups I can eventually add to this list of
ones which are similar to "earthfirst",so I will try sort out
where
I found links to them and pass them on because they really rock!!!

[stonecrest]

Originally posted by Vegantastic
I have a conflict with that. One voice in my head is happy with those groups and want to do the same, and the other voice is saying to do legal actions and don't destroy property.

i'm glad i'm not alone in feeling this way, i too wrestle with this a lot. i'm currently reading a book called 'green rage' which explains a lot of the radical environmental movement and their reasons for their actions (as well as defending their actions against common criticisms). it's very intriguing.

i just can't seem to decide if technology/education is going to save the world or if we need to jump ship, so to speak.. it's even more frustrating to me considering the fact that i work in a technology field.

sigh..

maybe i need to start a thread on technology..