My ag teacher...

[Peacefully_Anna]

How can I get my Ag teacher to see that factory farms are cruel? I've told him everything I know about them! He just seems to have an excuse for anything I say! Any tips?

[RunsWithFoxes]

You've probably done all you can for the time being. You've planted a seed, and whether or not it germinates depends upon many things outside of your control. Meanwhile, you can cultivate your garden elsewhere... :vebo:

[Peacefully_Anna]

Yeah you are right
But he keeps arguing with me...I guess I could just tell him that a man with no compassion for animals is scum in my book- but then I may get kicked out of class :/

[peace]

Animal agriculture people honestly do not believe what they are doing is wrong.

Keeping animals in small crates? Allows farmers to maximize space and check each animal's production more easily. Hot-iron branding? It's cheaper than microchipping and provides a permanent ID against theft. Cutting throats while the heart is still beating? Allows the blood to drain faster and the slaughter line to move more quickly.

They have an answer and a rationalization for everything. They really believe that each and every industry practice is totally acceptable.

People this wedded to the agriculture industry can't be convinced through all the arguments in the world. If they ever decide to leave, it will be something that comes from within themselves.

[sorrowthepig]

How can I get my Ag teacher to see that factory farms are cruel? I've told him everything I know about them! He just seems to have an excuse for anything I say! Any tips?
You can't, accept that you can't, and focus on draining attention away from his propaganda and the blind allegiance to it that results. Keep him talking, always, and use his own words to hang him. He's giving you the animal agribusiness playbook with every statement.

[Cuddlebunny]

Is there any way you can transfer classes? I avoided that one. I had to take some other silly class in place though. I'd talk with your councelor or principal and ask if you can switch. That way you two won't be in a constant argument and maybe end up saying something out of anger and wind up getting kicked out.

You will not make him understand. He sounds set in his ways. Consider how hard it is to change you, that is about how much chance you have of changing him.

[Peacefully_Anna]

Yeah I think it may be too late to transfer. But I'm tough- I think I can handle it. I'm a pretty good student so I think he likes me. I can't stand his views on animals but he's a pretty good guy. I am still going to argue with him though :)

[Riona]

Could you find groups that have NO association with PETA/big AR groups that show the intelligence of/how much factory farmed animals suffer, print the pages out and take them to him? The only reason I say no PETA et al is that they have the reputation of being insane and nutty. Which is why so many people in general don't like them and would just laugh in your face if you took in a page that they had endorsed.

[sally429]

Could you find groups that have NO association with PETA/big AR groups that show the intelligence of/how much factory farmed animals suffer, print the pages out and take them to him? The only reason I say no PETA et al is that they have the reputation of being insane and nutty. Which is why so many people in general don't like them and would just laugh in your face if you took in a page that they had endorsed.

Nice idea, but I doub't that would do much I do not think that he would think it matters that much. You would have to find out what he DOES care about and see if you could relate it. I think that he is probably set in his ways though.

I took a meat science class (it was required, go figure) and I just stayed quiet in there (people here just about ripped me a new one for that :-/ , but I thought it was ultimately the best thing to do) because I figured out pretty quick that it would be a waste of energy and probably hurt my grade if I tried to talk anyone out of anything in that class. I think that there are appropriate times to share AR info, and an Ag. or meats class will just be a losing battle.

Anyway good luck too ya!

[VenomousX]

How can I get my Ag teacher to see that factory farms are cruel? I've told him everything I know about them! He just seems to have an excuse for anything I say! Any tips?

I say ignore him and focus on the class, educate those willing to hear your message. With any luck you can get some classmates to change their minds about getting into that business before they become desensitized like your teacher.

[Peacefully_Anna]

yeah I have a lot of good friends that got my back :)
actually I'm in a little club with my two guy friends! All we really do is have a cool hand shake and say "Vegenators Unite"
Hahaha the vegenators rock....

[Bof]

You could tell your teacher and fellow students about Dr Keith Kendrick's studies of sheep (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1641463.stm) which have shown that they 'probably experience some degree of emotion and could even be capable of conscious thought.'

And these are the animals we treat like inanimate objects, stuffing them into filthy ships for weeks long voyages to the middle east where they are sold on the dockside, to have their throats cut by anyone who wants to buy them.

[sorrowthepig]

I think that there are appropriate times to share AR info, and an Ag. or meats class will just be a losing battle.
It's not a losing battle when you move the argument away from "I love all animals" vs. "I love meat taste" and toward the quantifiable economic and environmental devastation these people wreak upon themselves, their own enterprises, and the rest of the world. They hand you your ammunition with every proud, rationalized reference to their own standard practices.

[panthera]

I like to point out stuff that comes from the industry itself. Like: "The former chair of the dairy welfare audit board said that high production values are not necessarily indicators of adequate welfare. High production values often come from high cull rate" (i.e., as soon as they stop producing milk at the highest rate possible, slaughter'em and get new ones. Work their bodies mercilessly til then.) [my commentary, not his!]

I feel for ya, though. I go to an animal agriculture school and have taken animal science courses. My favorite professor, in terms of being an excellent educator, is a dairy specialist. I now am vehemently anti-dairy, but I still respect him as a professor.

One important thing is just to ask the important questions in class. Even if he has answers for everything, not all of them will make sense to all the students. In my big lecture class I liked to ask, "how do they kill all the male chicks of laying hens?" and "exactly where do all the male calves go?" and "did you know there is a lot of well-documented research challenging some of the claims made regarding animal experimentation?"

I didn't like doing it, but I couldn't just sit there and not say anything at all.

[Peacefully_Anna]

I find that most people agree with me that factory farms are inhummane but it makes me sad that they still buy from them. I know the world will never become vegetarian but I think if we could put an end to Fac. Farms then the meat production would decrease a whole lot. people can't realize that in this day and age we don't need meat to surive any more. It's like in the old days when there were slaves and the way women use to be treated. It's called adaptation people! Let's get on with the program. But people are ignorant and not many people have the compassion that we all do

[juno]

No matter how much you argue with your teacher, he's not going to change his mind as he's already very much involved in the industry. If he does change his mind, it's going to take a while. I'm not discouraging you or anything, just saying that we can't convert people overnight. =/