Religion and Veganism

[Kamila]

Thanks epski; one should never attempt to engage a keyboard while the mind is on the fresh strawberries and soy dream in the kitchen and how good they would taste with the roasted hazelnuts that I know I have. What a load of confusion, I am not sure my edit made it any clearer, perhaps I just muddied the waters even more. At least some of the spelling is less offensive.

I am so sick to my soul of the hurt we believers cause. Jesus would not do that. He is the one who is hurt in all of this. He is the one who has said, "when you do it to one of the least of these my brethren you have done it to me" When I participate in the things Fenguin spoke of (Gay-bashing, racism etc) or even just look the other way, I should consider that I am actually bashing Jesus himself, he stands with them.

I guess I am reacting because of something I heard not long ago (in case I sound like I have stepped outside of sanity--which I strongly suspect). I heard that about 90% of prostitutes come from strict fundamentalist homes. What have we done wrong? It is time to look for the dirt inside the church, inside the heart instead of assuming that it is out side.

Jesus words "Away from me, I never knew you." in response to the religious person defending (her)self by reciting all she has done for the Lord haunt me.

[majake]

Originally posted by Kamila
How horrible that good behaviour should be the outcome of submission to God


Originally posted by epski
I don't understand this at all.

I think the implied meaning is that one should have good behaviour regardless of gods existance and not because of it.

[epski]

Originally posted by majake

I think the implied meaning is that one should have good behaviour regardless of gods existance and not because of it.

Interesting. I don't get that out of that quote at all. Weird.

[majake]

well, i could be wrong. :shrugs:

[xenonesia]

i've been a Christian all my life, and the more i see of the world, the more i am convinced of my beliefs. the only reason we ate meat in the first place was because of sin. i don't think God had planned for us to have to kill and eat his creatures. i come from a branch of Christianity (seventh day adventism) where vegetarianism and veganism are fairly common for health reasons. God called our bodies "temples" and it is a sin to defile them with things that will hurt them. altough i bear that in mind, personally animal rights was my biggest push towards being a vegetarian.
of course, being a Christian, i completely defend the love of God, and i agree with epski, that really doesn't make sense to me. my motivation to do good isn't because i feel "watched" it's because i happen to know someone who sees a much bigger picture than me, and they have given me advice on how to get the most out of life. of course i'd listen.
personally, and i really don't mean to sound abrasive about this, but i really have a soapbox about people who think Christians are mind controlled. i don't have a herd mentality about it at all, in fact, it forces an individualism that few other things do. the world is full of nonconformists, and the more shocking and blatantly defiant you are, the more careful people are not to offend you. but i've found that people will walk all over someone who is adhering to what God said, probably because He instructs us not to lash back. i am certainly not bitter or reigned in because of my faith, and i genuinely wish that everyone could expierence the kind of happiness it has brought me. when you have God, you're never completely alone. but as with everything, i know that, as right as i think that i am, there are people that feel that they are equally as right. i respect their desicions completely, though i don't understand it. if i wanted everyone to be in agreement with this, i would find a Christian chat room.

[xenonesia]

you can't eat your way to heaven.

[MsRuthieB]

I don't know. I used to come pretty close. ;)

[xenonesia]

hehe:)

[Shamus]

A lot more people go for Christianity because it allows them to disavow personal responsibility for their actions. The main rule they follow is 'Believe that Jesus is the son of God and you will go to heaven'. Perhaps you've seen the bumper sticker 'Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.' Simply by holding a belief, they feel entitled to do whatever they want.
I was having a conversation with one of my co-workers the other day, and we got on to the topic of confession. She said that what she loved about her religion was that it didn’t matter how many bad things she did. According to her, all she had to do was go to confession and her sins would be wiped clean. I was rather saddened by the way she was using confession as a “get out of jail free” card.

[Ennui]

Cassiel, I quote three things from the bible to shut those types up. I listed the quotes in another post:D
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7437

[atpeacewithin]

Originally posted by Cassiel
My roommate likes to quote that verse (Acts, I think?) which says we shouldn't refuse "any good thing" God has given us to eat.

men would be good to eat if they were well-seasoned, i bet...

[magates]

Its an issue of "stewardship" We have misused our "dominon" over animals to such an extent that in my opinon it has become unquestionably sinful. Just mention to your roomate or whoever the issue of stewardship, it works.

[atpeacewithin]

Originally posted by magates
Its an issue of "stewardship" We have misused our "dominon" over animals to such an extent that in my opinon it has become unquestionably sinful.

right...even if we had the go-ahead to eat animals, no one said we had the right to freak them up genetically and treat them horribly...i'd bet $1M that if animals and their souls and spirits were treated respectfully - even when eaten - not so many folk would've switched vegan...

[grain_girl]

Originally posted by Fenguin
A lot more people go for Christianity because it allows them to disavow personal responsibility for their actions. The main rule they follow is 'Believe that Jesus is the son of God and you will go to heaven'. Perhaps you've seen the bumper sticker 'Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.' Simply by holding a belief, they feel entitled to do whatever they want.


Ha! I wish! You don't want to know all the things I would do and say, if it weren't for religious convictions! ;)

[bethanie]

"They follow the scriptures just so much to find and interpret excerpts that will reinforce their current mindset, and then disregard everything else." Fenguin, this is nicely written and I've seen it said by others in other posts as well...but the truth of the matter is, we ALL do this. No matter what it is we espouse to believe, we all find 'truths' that actually back up our personal philosophy. This is because we are human and that's what humans do.

B

[bethanie]

LOL grain girl...I hadn't seen that part of fenguin's post but I agree. I think there's a fine balance though, at least for me as a Christian.

I think what we are seeing here is a backlash to 'bad Christians'. Just like anti-veganism...vegan bashing that sometimes takes place is a backlash to bad vegans. ;) My definition of a 'bad Christian' is surprisingly NOT someone who sins a lot. My definition of a bad Christian is someone who lives in a perfectly tiny little box, never does anything remotely interesting and walks through every day pointing fingers at other people.

Many of the rest of us understand that there is a balance. That we ARE responsible for our actions, MOST DEFINITELY. God gave us brains after all ;). I understand after having lived badly and stupidly and sometimes bravely, and most definitely, it has been interresting...that I am here because of grace. And that grace requires that I be good and kind to myself and others. Because God has been good and kind to have created me and all that I have. And because we are all part of each other. Part of the great ONE. So I live in grace, instead of judgement, and I am able to forgive because I have been forgiven.

And what has this to do with being vegan? I'm sure I could find a quote in the Bible that says I should eat meat, and another that says it's okay not to. It is however part of my belief in non-violence. I'm a practicing non-violent Christian....how's that? I also think the current plight of food raised animals is man-made, and not God made (not that all manmade situations are bad...but I must say THIS one is). And that also has something to do with my reasons for not eating them.

Ahh well, it's late, I'm babbling, so that's all.
B

[Thalia]

Originally posted by bethanie
"They follow the scriptures just so much to find and interpret excerpts that will reinforce their current mindset, and then disregard everything else." Fenguin, this is nicely written and I've seen it said by others in other posts as well...but the truth of the matter is, we ALL do this. No matter what it is we espouse to believe, we all find 'truths' that actually back up our personal philosophy. This is because we are human and that's what humans do.

B
I think we need to be careful in our assumptions of the psychology of those who subscribe to particular religions and making sweeping generalizations. And I will remind everyone that I am in strong disagreement with many religious institutions and beliefs.

I think you are absolutely right, Bethanie, but just for the sake of argument, there are some people (and I want to emphasize some) who use scripture as a rationalization for anything and everything, but the difference btwn using a religious text and everyday secular rationalizing is that religious rationalizing is using an assumed divine endorsement of God or other divinity.

I rationalize with the best of them, but I never tell myself that it's OK bc divinity said so and then say that to others as well.


ETA looks like we posted at the same time.

I think if one bases their morals solely on a religious text without questioning, that is when one is suseptable to the above problem. Unfortunately that is the basis of many religions (relying soley on religious teachings for guidance), or seemingly so.

[anodekraft]

I just read that "manna from heaven" is actually the honeydew excrement of a bettle. It is still used as a food there by some cultures. It has all the same characteristics...it is white, it is in flakes, it doesn't keep, it is there every morning but dissappears (melts) it the afternoon. The bible offers wonderful stories and advice, but it was not written from or for our time.