Culture and body image

[freemouse]

I am 5"3, roughly 100LB, alwyas being considered as"skinny", '"under weight", "anorexia"....by western people.

I was visited by an aunt (Hawaii vacation, she's from China) the other day and she said to me during dinner "I am glad you are not putting on weight"....since I am so used to hear "you SHOULD put on weight", I was kind of feeling weird and just said "Eh.....I am about 45 kg". Aunt said "good good good......":(

Good? :confused:

Body image problems seem to be always considered as a very western syndroms, doesn't seem that way to me. Actually, I developed this whole "big girl phobia" way back in China when we didn't even have "too much" food ! In my country, many women consider restrict eating as one of the greatest virtues.:(

[kristadb]

I grew up in small town Newfoundland. Skinny girls are made fun of. Fat girls are, too, but not as much. Ideally, they like women with a little fat, but not too much.

Freemouse, if I brought you home, you would be stalked with people trying to "fatten you up".

[Kreeli]

freemouse, thanks for your story. it isn't an uncommon one and i doubt very much that body image problems are really a "western" thing.

for thousands of years women have been told how to look in order to attract mates, in cultures all over the world. the way women were "supposed" to look has been a varied as our body types are. once upon a time, in european culture, a woman with my size and shape (very tall and very fat) would have been considered extremely desireable. in other cultures, too; especially once i established that i was able to get pregnant and give birth to healthy babies.

there is a theory that the underlying "fatphobia" to many cultures stems from the belief that women shouldn't take up too much space or be bigger than men, simply because size is considered intimidating. women who are smaller and look weaker are prized. the assumption is that men don't want to be with women who might be able to best them, physically. why is that? i don't know for sure, but i think it has something to do with hanging on to the notion that there is and should be a 'weaker sex' that is subservient to the other. and i think that is wrong!

if you are eating healthily, getting exercise, and feel fit and good, don't worry about what anyone says about your size. i am certain you are perfect just the way you are! :)

[HappyDaisy]

I agree with Kreeli completely.

I think women are pressured to look a certain way, mainly so they will never have enough energy to utilize their full power. Think about it - we women spend loads of time obsessing over the way we look and do all sorts of things to look that way. Think of how much more we could accomplish in life if we were to all say "Screw it!!" and devote ALL of our energy to actually doing something in the world. We would be UNSTOPPABLE! However, that thought scares a lot of people, and I think this is partly why women are made to feel like they have to fit some perfect mold of what a woman should look like. It takes away a woman's power when she feels she doesn't fit the mold and then strives to attain it. But that is the whole point of creating a mold to fit into - so women have less power in the world.

When I think of all the brain cells I killed and didn't use in high school - due to obsessing constantly about appearance - it makes me want to scream. I was at the top of everything - until I discovered boys - and then my appearance and attracting a man became the focal point. Which, unfortunately, is encouraged everyday in the media, by men, and also by a lot of women. I'm not saying the encouragement is always overt or conscious - it is just so ingrained that sometimes things are encouraged when you don't even mean for it to be.

Anyway freemouse, there is no such thing as the perfect body. There is just the perfect body for YOU, and everyone's body is different. You sound just right for your frame, etc., so I wouldn't worry about it! Remember - use that brain power on something more important! :)

[HappyDaisy]

Oh, and I highly recommend the book "The Beauty Myth". It is awesome.

[freemouse]

You know what, the first thought that jumped into my mind when I heard my being skinny is "good" was that "Sheesh....I am glad I've been hanging out with my VB friends all the time, I've developed a pretty tough mental shield against these kind of comments". :)

Don't worry folks, I am NOT convinced that my weight is anywhere close to "normal" and my desire of achieving a stronger (yes, bigger) body is not dampened.

Ironically, you will think that for people like my aunt (who live through Mao's culture revolution years during which most people were obligatory vegan--- they even had to eat tree leaves and bark!!) would appreciate fuller, stronger bodies. But hell no, they still like wee girls??? Even more puzzling is that, my aunt is no where close to being "fashionable"---- dresses gray and blue stuff, no make up, simple hair, no lotion etc., so it can't be those "media" thing. I think this "restrict=virtue" idea is somewhat similar to those of the Middle Age nuns who starved themselves to death in search for "spiritual purity". Am I making sense?

[Kreeli]

you certainly are making sense, freemouse.

women have been doing outrageous and unhealthy things to their bodies for centuries...so although the media tends to highlight this issue for us in our time, it certainly isn't completely to blame. think about all the tight-fitting corsets that crushed women's ribcages and damaged their internal organs. think about footbinding, lip and neck stretching, scarification, and female genital mutilation. these are all things that have happened to women even when there is no media to prey upon our insecurities.

[Baby]

Kreeli, I think you're right about why this culture likes to have it's women look like twelve year old boys. We're threatened by the strength, power, and passion a woman can posess. A woman that is focused soley on keeping a waif like figure is less likely to have the time and energy to engulf herself in more independent, and empowering endeavours. She less of a threat because she is percieved as being more in control of herself, more rigid, and less passionate...more predictable. Plus, it also sends the message that she's willing to jump through hoops, and is willing to sacrifice in order to be loved.
Having said that, I'm a skinny woman, who is sick and tired of walking into a room full of my sisters, and being told to put on weight. It makes me feel as if I look sickly. As much as fat people don't like to be told what they should do, or what they should look like, skinny people don't like it either.

[muppetcow]

You think you're skinny, Freemouse? I'm a good 3 inches taller than you, but I weigh the same. Eeek. I, too, am tired of people telling me to put on weight. Don't you think if I could gain 15 pounds or so I would have by now? Argh.

I think women are conditioned to believe that no matter what, their bodies aren't as perfect as they could be. You can be too skinny, too fat, boobs too small, hips too wide, butt too big, butt non-existent, etc. etc.

I say, be healthy and love your body. (took me a LONG time to get to that point)

[freemouse]

kreeli and all,

on one hand, my mom set me a perfect strong model--- she eats well (and a lot), talks loud (very very), works like a horse (if not two), and smart enough to get a professor job. Well, on the other hand, she get SOOOOO much comments about her being "man-like". I've heard so so so many times people saying "yeah your mom is great, it's just like she's not like a woman" blah blah....Hello? what a woman should be like? I regret listening to those people and not follwoing my mom. well, heck, not too late yet. :)

[4EverGrounded]

I agree with keeli to a point. Back when "large and lovely" was in, most of the people were thin because they couldn't afford very much and they had to work long hours doing laborious work. Heft simply meant that you had enough money and were rich enough to eat what you could afford, not have to work, and get large. That's why the portraits that you see in an art gallery had large women. Those women were wealthy. Wealthy enough to not have to work, eat anything they could afford (like meat), and have their portraits painted. I'm thinking this is also where we get the concept of the "idle rich". Keeli, you describe yourself as "very tall and very fat". Back in those days, you would have also been considered very wealthy. Possibly a woman of very high social status, worthy of having a portrait done.

In our society now, thin is in because most associate large with lazy and sedenary and thin with sucessful and active. We have money now to get food (sometimes, not the best food in the world, mind you...), so now the shift goes to the other extreme and the fashion goes to what most are not, if that makes any sence. I can remember when a "fat baby" was considered healthy and a thin one was the stuff of rumours ("why doesn't that mother feed her child....") and now, it's the opposite.

Freemouse, you say that in China, that women consider restrictive eating as a virtue. Same in this country, too. Except we call it "diets". Everyone is on one in one form or another. The images that we see all around tell us that unless we're 5'7" and 100 pounds, there's no way we can be happy or well-thought of and men will never, never like us enough to fall in love. That's simply not true. I used to be "skinny" at one time. I stood 5'2" and weighed about 95 pounds and was well liked and guys went ga-ga for me. Now, I'm still 5'2" and weigh....I don't know how much I weigh now (I have no scales), but I wear a size 18 denim now and I'm still well liked and guys still go ga-ga for me even though I'm happily married and have no problems saying so. What's changed besides my size? Not one thing. I love me and if no one else can, then @#$% them and the horse they rode in on!

My bro in law is the exception to the "men want women who are frail and tiny" concept. He's on his #3 marriage, and every one of his ex-wives were much taller, and much heavier than him. His current one is no exception, either. He likes his women with a good amount of "softness" and will tell you so straight out. To him, it's the size of her heart and the amount of her love that matters, not the size of her dress. He is not the exception either. There are lots of men I know of that luuurrrvvvee a woman with some extra "junk in the trunk" and they consider those women very, very sexy and very beautiful.

I'm not sure why your aunt would say that about gaining/not gaining, but I agree with Keeli: if you are eating healthily, getting exercise, feeling fit and feeling good about yourself, then what "they" say doesn't matter. Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and you are beautiful in your shape and size, freemouse.

(Sorry for the book-post. I didn't realize how passionate I was about this topic until now)

[4EverGrounded]

Originally posted by freemouse
kreeli and all,

on one hand, my mom set me a perfect strong model--- she eats well (and a lot), talks loud (very very), works like a horse (if not two), and smart enough to get a professor job. Well, on the other hand, she get SOOOOO much comments about her being "man-like". I've heard so so so many times people saying "yeah your mom is great, it's just like she's not like a woman" blah blah....Hello? what a woman should be like? I regret listening to those people and not follwoing my mom. well, heck, not too late yet. :) No, never too late. Your mom sounds like a beautiful, strong, smart woman and a wonderful example to follow.

[freemouse]

Heh...mama is kind of far away, can I just hang out with you, Dee?
You, Kreeli, Krista, punkmommy, HappyDaisy.....you guys are all strong and cool :) I want to be cool too :D

[bethanie]

" Think about it - we women spend loads of time obsessing over the way we look and do all sorts of things to look that way. Think of how much more we could accomplish in life if we were to all say "Screw it!!""

right on the money happydaisy!

[Max Power]

:WHINE: WHINE: WHINE:

Why is it every time I log on (and that's a LOT) I see a new thread about fat, body image, or fat?!?!?! UGH. That is SO FIVE MINUTES AGO!!!!

REGARDLESS of my opinions on the matter, which a mixed, at best, I'm SERIOUSLY getting sick of the issue. It's a freaking DEAD HORSE. Get OVER IT!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!!

[Keegan]

Max Power, great avitar!

[Max Power]

Thanks :D

[kristadb]

/cheer

There are obviously a lot of people thinking about their fat - or someone else's - and it appears to have reached a boiling point.

[Oatmeal]

Originally posted by Max Power
I'm SERIOUSLY getting sick of the issue. It's a freaking DEAD HORSE. Get OVER IT!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!!

Yes, we have no time for this, let's go back to the real important issues!

Have we listed all stupid things omnivores say yet?

:D

[Secura]

WORD, max. maybe i should take you around with me so you can say all the things im thinking without me having to say them haha.

there is an 'eat to live' thread, there only needs to be one. i got kinda pissed when i very first started coming here because the whole reason i came here was to get that whole scene off my mind, i had other concerns and ideas. i mean, if you feel screwed up becuase you have body issue problems, talking about it constantly must make it that much more center of your life.

now this is the health board so lets talk about my tooth abcess. oh wait, we CANT, because im a f-cking bulimic and it will always go back to that.

ARGH. im going to start a new thread called "who f-cking cares lets get over our damn selves"

oh my god that was me being angry and blunt. it will never happen again. document for the history books. sorry. <3 <3 <3 you all know i love you.

[Keegan]

Secura- that would'nt happen to be a earthlink camera would it? lol, that's what I use, it was free...

[freemouse]

Originally posted by Max Power
:WHINE: WHINE: WHINE:

Why is it every time I log on (and that's a LOT) I see a new thread about fat, body image, or fat?!?!?! UGH. That is SO FIVE MINUTES AGO!!!!

REGARDLESS of my opinions on the matter, which a mixed, at best, I'm SERIOUSLY getting sick of the issue. It's a freaking DEAD HORSE. Get OVER IT!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!!

I can swim butterfly stroke for 800 meters non-stop, or, 50 meters of freestroke in 32 seconds. All we can try kick-boxing. Not that I am bragging, just to say we are not bunch of pale flat whining babies. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. Yes I (we) have to deal with some problems. However, I am confident on beating you in the pool. heh

[Secura]

nah, it's a cannon something something, it was also free lol. it was a christmas present from my bf, and i still dont know how to use it, he nags be about setting my ISO and stuff and im like "what the HELL are you talking about?"

ill take a 5 dollar disposable job any day.

[iceflower]

I'm the same, 5'3 and 45kg. People have no problem saying your too skinny but it would be considered rude if someone just came up and said your too fat.

[Kreeli]

um, if y'all aren't diggin on the body image and fat conversations, i have some advice for you: don't read the threads. sheesh. :rolleyes: this is obviously a topic that is important to people, and if it isn't for you, the stay the heck out of it. it's not that hard.