UK Bank Charges :(

[lilacmoonbeam]

Well I'm sure alot of you will know about these kind of annoying little issues? lol. I'm not sure if it's the same outwith the UK or not with banks charging for overdrafts, direct debits etc, but I would imagine so! Anyway let me know what you guys think of this issue I've had recently... On the 2nd October I spent £7 on my debit card in a store, the transaction failed to debit my account until the 19th October (about 3 weeks later!) they usually come off within the next 2-3 days of it being done!!! Now this £7 transaction put me £1.35 over my overdraft limit, on the following day I called the bank (as I had noticed that £7 had been taken from my account & didn't know what it was for) so the guy told me what it was for, and needless to say I wasn't best please because I was going to be charged £28 for a "unauthorised borrowing" (lol the unauthorised borrowing = £1.35!) the guy on the phone told me if I paid in any amount over the £1.35 to my account before 3.30pm that day I would not get charged, so I gave my partner £5 to pay into my account (this was about 1pm) and he did so, so I thought all was well, until a week later I got my bank statement through the door saying I was going to be charged the £28 fee in any event!!! for "unauthorised borrowing" I was absolutely furious because the guy on the phone gave me wrong information and my partner had to make the trip to the bank (on foot! and it'a about 2 miles) for nothing!!!! They are refusing to refund anything on the fee, because it is a "valid charge" blah blah blah!!! It's absolutely ridiculous!!! Me and my partner are not rich people, and £28 is alot of money to be taken away from us :( there is no reasoning with the banks, and no sympathy, I feel they are corrupt, greedy and disgusting and I just do not even want a bank account at all anymore, but I have to have to have one as I need to get my bursary paid in to a bank account every month from college :(. I'm also not happy for these reasons at the charge:
1: The charge is based on £1.35 (and the charge is £28 how can they justify that??!!)
2: The guy on the phone gave us wrong info probably because he wanted to avoid the real issue of discussing it with me!!!
3: The fact that the incident happened because of a small transaction that took place on my account 3 weeks beforehand, and I had obviously forgotton about...
It's all a bit awful really, and I'm just wondering if any of you guys have had any similar problems with banks??
I'm really miffed :(

[Schoska]

I'm in the UK so I know what you're talking about althought I've never gone over my OD.

I think you should fight it. Make an appointment to see the manager at the bank and bring all the evidence with you that you can (dates/times of phone calls, the reciepts etc) and push, push, push. Doing it face to face can make a difference.

I had to do this when I was charged for two late payments to my credit card. I was charged even though I had paid in good time...they in fact had "lost" my payments. They said they wouldn't do anything, but I pushed, and also threatned legal action. They then changed their tune pretty quickly.

It may not work, but it is worth a shot. The whole point of debit cards is that the money is removed immediately. If this did not happen then you may have a case.

Good luck :)

[hoodedclawjen]

i'd definately fight it.

first, i'd go and talk to someone at your nearest CAB (citizens advice bureaux) -look online or in the yellow pages for them- and they'll give you free legal advice and help you work out where you stand on the matter- they're very very good- give them a few days to research it and check it out, and they'll help you present an excellent case!

then make an appointment to go and talk to the branch manager. do what Schoska says and present all your info, and have a clear case on how this is not appropriate, and calmly tell them what you want them to do about it. and if they continue to be arseholes about it, thank them, and calmly ask them for an information leaflet on how to close your account and transfer your bursary stuff to another bank.

I've done this, they don't like it, lol. tell them you're going to get an account with a bank that is more reliable, trustworthy, and which cares about its customers and if they don't suddenly start acting nicely, follow up on it- close your account and move everything to a new bank.

i'd also reccomend trying to get an overdraft thats much bigger than you need, and trying to make sure you're miles away from hitting the bottom of it at all times. My bank gave me a 5OO quid overdraft on my account with no fees for having it (and i think they charge me like 2% of what i borrow on it, after a month of not repaying it, if i use it) because i said i might need it in an emergency (i said i was going to meet a strange man on the internet and might need to buy a plane ticket home quicksmart if he was a weirdo, lol, and they were all "erm, yep, ok, we'll get an overdraft for you then madam") , and i use about 20 quid of it rarely, and its never costed me a penny, but its good to know its there.

[remilard]

So you signed a contract with the bank which outlined fees one of which was a fee for overdrawing your account. You overdrew your account because you don't keep a balanced checkbook or keep enough money in the account that monthly balancing is safe. The bank charged you an overdraft fee.

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Pirate Ferret]

^ Yeah its how banks make thier money. the SECOND you go over your limit they charge you. You have to read the small print.

i have 2 accounts.
in nationwide I went 20p (no really) over 0 as i dont have an overdraft in it, and they charged me £20 then kept putting interest on that. I never use the account and didnt bother checking so ended up forking over £30 for 20p. Id rather my card just gets refused but apparently they dont make enough money like that [eyeroll]

My other account is a student account.
I get £1000 interest free overdraft, harhar.
I went over it by £75 somehow
And they cut off all my money
So I had the £2 in change inmy pocket to last me 2 weeks.
Lets just say im never eating stale bread with curry powder on it again! I had to return chrismtas presents id bought people to get a train home. Fun! Apparently if need be you can add money to your overdraft but they'll charge you. I was ok with that long as i could live! sooo I went to HSBC and was like look, Give me £50 just to last me you know my loans coming so im gauranteed to pay it back. Then put on some fake(ish) tears and said i had a funeral to go to. cold nosed bitch made me leave with nothing. Why?
Because the loan goes into my Nationwide account - therefore, it wasnt a 'proper' student account.

Moral of story: read small print (and curry powder makes anything taste manageable)

[hoodedclawjen]

So you signed a contract with the bank which outlined fees one of which was a fee for overdrawing your account. You overdrew your account because you don't keep a balanced checkbook or keep enough money in the account that monthly balancing is safe. The bank charged you an overdraft fee.

Sounds reasonable to me.

remilard, i get where you are coming from here, but the point of debit cards like Solo is that payments charged to the account are supposed to come out instantly, and show up within 3 days, to avoid confusion in younger or introductory level bank account holders.

Yeah, you should keep tabs on exactly what goes in and out of your account and when, and be sure to have loads of money in your accoutn at all times, but this isn't always logistically possible, and if money is supposed to come out on a set day, and instead comes out randomly almost 3 weeks later, that can lead to unexpected problems.

[remilard]

remilard, i get where you are coming from here, but the point of debit cards like Solo is that payments charged to the account are supposed to come out instantly, and show up within 3 days, to avoid confusion in younger or introductory level bank account holders.

Yeah, you should keep tabs on exactly what goes in and out of your account and when, and be sure to have loads of money in your accoutn at all times, but this isn't always logistically possible, and if money is supposed to come out on a set day, and instead comes out randomly almost 3 weeks later, that can lead to unexpected problems.

I fail to understand how keeping a balanced checkbook is every not logistically possible. Maybe for someone with no hands.

[hoodedclawjen]

I fail to understand how keeping a balanced checkbook is every not logistically possible. Maybe for someone with no hands.

i said keeping tabs on what goes in and out of your account at all times, and having loads of money in there at all times, isn't always logistically possible.

yes, if you're a skilled mathmatician who's been shown/taught how to balance a chequebook, one with plenty of time on their hands and experience in doing it, and not a normal person with a billion other things going on at once in their life, i'm sure its very very easy to keep a superbly balanced chequebook. oh, that i was so perfect, lol. some people don't find it so easy (and yeah, its their/our problem, not the banks, or yours).

i can't be sitting infront of my computer checking my banking online every 20 minutes to see if a payment (that should have gone out 3 weeks ago) went out or not (though no doubt i should) and i think should also have psychic powers and be able to guess what the bank is gonna do, and make more money appear in my account before it decides to process payments out of my account randomly, on dates other than those which it is due to, and which we agreed apon. but then even if i do add an extra billion pounds to my account three weeks before payments are due to go out, if the bank doesn't actually process my deposits in time (it'll endevour to do it in 3 days, by who knows when it actually will), then it'll still charge me for not having enough funds in my account when it does pay my direct debits!

sometimes stuff just doesn't come together perfectly, when it comes to banking and maths, for me at least, as i expect it tends to in 'remilard-world'.

i wish i could charge my bank fees when it fails to do what it says in our contract that it would 'endevour' to do- banks are no less infailable than their customers (for example: my brothers bank seems to be very good at 'loosing' his deposited paychecks, and not very good at finding them again, even when he presents proof of the deposits which have been processed by a cashier, and weeks later still haven't been applied to his account) but they do seem to have a lot more ability to hand out charges, than to deal with their own faults, and fix problems that they have partly caused.

[Tame]

You should know what money you have spent.
You should know what is going to be taken out automatically.
I fail to see how a charge coming out later causes a problem, as one should have already accounted for that obligation.

[remilard]

i said keeping tabs on what goes in and out of your account at all times, and having loads of money in there at all times, isn't always logistically possible.

yes, if you're a skilled mathmatician who's been shown/taught how to balance a chequebook, one with plenty of time on their hands and experience in doing it, and not a normal person with a billion other things going on at once in their life, i'm sure its very very easy to keep a superbly balanced chequebook. oh, that i was so perfect, lol. some people don't find it so easy (and yeah, its their/our problem, not the banks, or yours).

i can't be sitting infront of my computer checking my banking online every 20 minutes to see if a payment (that should have gone out 3 weeks ago) went out or not (though no doubt i should) and i think should also have psychic powers and be able to guess what the bank is gonna do, and make more money appear in my account before it decides to process payments out of my account randomly, on dates other than those which it is due to, and which we agreed apon. but then even if i do add an extra billion pounds to my account three weeks before payments are due to go out, if the bank doesn't actually process my deposits in time (it'll endevour to do it in 3 days, by who knows when it actually will), then it'll still charge me for not having enough funds in my account when it does pay my direct debits!

sometimes stuff just doesn't come together perfectly, when it comes to banking and maths, for me at least, as i expect it tends to in 'remilard-world'.

i wish i could charge my bank fees when it fails to do what it says in our contract that it would 'endevour' to do- banks are no less infailable than their customers (for example: my brothers bank seems to be very good at 'loosing' his deposited paychecks, and not very good at finding them again, even when he presents proof of the deposits which have been processed by a cashier, and weeks later still haven't been applied to his account) but they do seem to have a lot more ability to hand out charges, than to deal with their own faults, and fix problems that they have partly caused.

Keep a checkbook balanced doesn't involve sitting in front of the computer every 20 minutes. You write a purchase in the ledger when you make the purchase not when it clears the bank. That way you don't really need to know when it clears the bank. Then once a month you sit in front of the statement (on the computer if you want) and find the variances. If you are concerned about any variances you can call the bank. There is no math involved other than subtraction and adding and I'll even let you use a calculator for that. An 8 year old could be taught to do this, seriously.

Do you have to do that? No, I don't but it is a perfectly good way to prevent overdrawing an account for people who are prone to that.

[Pirate Ferret]

I dont see how hard it is to every now and then just go to a cash machine and check your balance... tis what i do (closing my eyes and peeking at the screen every time hehe)

[hoodedclawjen]

so what happens when you've done all this, and you know you have $40 in your account, and nothing due to come out, and you've deposited another $200 today (monday) which your bank has told you should be processed and in your account by friday (to cover rent), and you know your rent debit is due to come out the following thursday, but your bank decides to not process your wages at all, and loose it instead, or do it 3 weeks later, and then take out your rent 3 days early, just for fun? and then charges you for not having enough funds to cover this? thats nice of them.

[remilard]

so what happens when you've done all this, and you know you have $40 in your account, and nothing due to come out, and you've deposited another $200 today (monday) which your bank has told you should be processed and in your account by friday (to cover rent), and you know your rent debit is due to come out the following thursday, but your bank decides to not process your wages at all, and loose it instead, or do it 3 weeks later, and then take out your rent 3 days early, just for fun? and then charges you for not having enough funds to cover this? thats nice of them.

If the bank took three weeks to post a payroll check they would be in error (in violation of the law in the US) and I would expect them to make me whole.

Britain doesn't have direct deposit?

[Bonoluvr]

yes banks in the US have rules about when funds are available. cash deposit immediately, a local check for my bank is available here the next day, i think a non local check is 3 or 5 days, but anyway,
i use my debit card all the time and i write everything down immediately in my ledger, if i dont i would forget, then if it comes out the next day or a week later i know i covered it.
i can view my account online too, so i periodically look at it to make sure i didnt forget to account for anything. can you view yours online? i dont even look at the paper statements hardly at all anymore, i balance it all by checking it online,
i dont write checks either, and i dont have any bills automatically come out of my account, i pick the dates each month for my bill paying. it works out better for me that way.
anyway, the us has awfully high bank charges too. it stinks, but maybe they will refund you the fee this time if you explain the situation. most banks will do that as a courtesy at least one time.

[Marie]

When I was younger I'd keep all my statements but I'd always round up in my written records as a way of tricking myself into keeping extra money in my account. That way if there was a screw up, I'd have that "invisible" money to fall back on. I was dirt poor at the time so you don't need a lot of money to do it. 2.75 here.. .50 there adds up over time.

[veggielove]

My brother did this once, was charged $36 for buying a $2 energy drink he didn't have money for, and then again the same day he bought a bag of chips.... $72 for two purchases under 5 bucks total. (He went to the bank with our mother and negotiated to have only the one charge, the $36, though.)

I know someone else who used a debit card to charge a phone call, thinking the call would end when the money in his account "ran out". Of course he had a huge overage. Electronic money transfer is fast, but not THAT fast yet, my dear. My brother was an idiot, and learned pretty fast after this how things work.

some bank accounts exist that don't charge you for overdraft like this, so I hear. I'd look into something like that if you commonly have a balance very close to zero.

[dropdeaddale]

I myself work at a bank and unfortunately this is how the banking system works. No matter how long the delay for funds to leave your account, the individual is responsible to keep records and take into account every purchase you make. This is how the bank makes money. I don't agree with it at all because I see it as a blind robbery because customers such as yourself are often completely unaware of these fees. Everyone morning I go through the overdraft lists and I'm the one who decisions them and trust me it isn't a fun task calling people up at 8 in the morning to tell them they're overdrawn. You can try to fight it but some insitutions are just merciless. :-(

[dropdeaddale]

My bank gave me a 5OO quid overdraft on my account with no fees for having it (and i think they charge me like 2% of what i borrow on it, after a month of not repaying it, if i use it)

2% interest on a 500 quid cash reserve!?! That's AMAZING! The bank I work for (Commerce USA) charges 14% on what you spend.:drool:

[hoodedclawjen]

2% interest on a 500 quid cash reserve!?! That's AMAZING! The bank I work for (Commerce USA) charges 14% on what you spend.

yeah? maybe my bank manager just likes me, (probably cos she never has to deal with me, as i'm not in the same country as my account is, most of the time!) lol- i don't know if its the same for everyone else.

To give them their dues though, the British banks aint bad in a lot of ways.... as far as i know, its pretty standard at all UK banks for chequebooks to always be free, 'hole in the wall' machine withdrawls to be free- often even if its not from your own banks machine, (apart from those ATM style machines in garages, which charge a quid or two) teller withdrawls/service to be free, transfers between 2 accounts in the same holders name, at the same bank, to be free, and for there to not be a fee for going over a set number of transactions, or a monthly fee for just having the account, etc.

i've come across a lot of these fees and restrictions in canadian bank accounts, and it's left me pretty openmouthed, i'm used to pretty much putting stuff in, taking stuff out, paying bills by direct debit, and moving stuff between accounts online, etc, and only paying the bank any money if i go over my overdraft or bounce something (which has amazingly not happened yet, 10 years in!).

although, thinking about it, i've heard that here, not only do they do charge you something like 30 quid for bouncing cheques or going overdrawn, but then if you're lucky, they charge you other 15 or 20 quid for writing you a letter telling you they've done it, lol. hopefully i'm wrong though.

[remilard]

2% a month is 26.8% annual effective. Are we all talking about the same thing?

[hoodedclawjen]

ok... so i probably got it very wrong and have most likely been talking out of my bum all day today (as i said, i'm not huge on banking wisdom, so please tell me if i did get it horribly wrong!) but my banks website says (with regards to overdrafts on my level of account):

You can borrow £50 to £15,000 and only pay monthly interest on what you borrow (when within your agreed limit). Interest is charged at the standard rate on the overdrawn balance, up to the agreed limit, and the first £100 is interest free.

Rates apply as follows: Under £1,000: Current EAR (effective annual rate) variable: 18.86% Current nominal: 17.40% Current monthly nominal: 1.45.

my bank manager also told me that if i use the overdraft, but put the money back and am back in the black within under a month, i won't pay anything for it.

ok, and i've just realised i've totally hijacked the OP's thread. (very sorry OP)

[remilard]

I just thought you were probably talking about a monthly rate and I was sure the 14% was annual (14% monthly would be usury).

[hoodedclawjen]

i don't know what i'm talking about... its a common thing :)

[lilacmoonbeam]

ok from these posts I think some people may be missing the point.

YES I do check my balance every single day on my account whether it be online, on the telephone on at bank machines, the problem arose the following day when this £7 transaction came off overnight AND the fact that the bank staff gave the incorrect information?????????????? this is my point
I appreciate the fact that it is in the terms and conditions of opening the account. But for goodness sake banks can refund charges as goodwill gestures, and it's not as if I purposely went over my overdraft limit.
So for a a few of you... I do check my account balance every day.
Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed that this money came out my account and had attempted to rectify it by paying money into my account the same day????
Fair enough really?
Another factor is that in my banks terms and conditions.. which the bank also agrees with myself... is that there will be no charge on my account if money is paid in within 24 hours of the account going overdrawn.
....hmmmm so this is not a valid charge

I think I will go to the CAB about this as they are breaking their own contract!

Remilard: I wish I had the time to be as organised as you, and have nothing else to worry about in my life. I also wish I was rich enough to keep emergency money in my account and didn't have to spend everything every month... not everyone is made of money you know.

To the others - thank you esp hoodedclawjen for your useful advice.

Unfortunately I did think everyone on here was lovely, now I have been rather offended by Remilard, there really was no need to be so nasty now was there??
And insulting?
I thought forum boards were meant to be friendly... apparently not.
I came on here looking for genuine help and advice, and I get insults?
Charming

[lilacmoonbeam]

Oh my goodness.....

Now I am definately moving banks. I have just found a news article on the BBC website, and from other reliable sources, that my bank financially supports HUNTINGDON LIFE SCIENCES... I'm sure alot of you will have heard of this horrid organisation that do many cruel and despicable things to earths creatures.

Another reason why banks control so much of the country, they are corrupt, disgusting and immoral... I will be closing my account and I will be telling them exactly the reasons for this, I don't even care so much about the charge any longer I want to advertise my position on their ethics.
The sad thing is that the bank I bank with (RBS .. who also own NATWEST) is the biggest grossing bank in Scotland (perhaps the UK I'm not 100% clear). I have found the co-op bank to have some form of ethics, their website states that they will not fund fur trade, animal testing.. although only on cosmetics... although this is better than nothing.

I wish I didn't have to have a bank account, they make me sick!