im BACK to the cancer fear.

[taurushead]

oi vey:dizzy:
just as i was slackening off and just living well GENERALLY rather than obsessively..an article got emailed to me that prodded me to research some things and now im all confused again.
i wish (i know its impossible) all evidence just pointed the ONE way:up: and i KNEW what would be best for my health. i went veg. for nonhealth reasons but now i can't stop reading:sealed:

is veganism GOOD to fight disease? i assumed so..but apparently there's no conclusive evidence.

are too many carbohydrates (nonrefined) damaging apart from weight?
are the refined ones even that bad if its all low blood sugar combinations?

im confusing myself and freaking out all over again.
please please respond. i swear ill stop. it was GREAT stopping. i liked that..but now im like a lost :sheep: (yeah i just like that icon..)

it changes EVERYTHING, whatever way is best. i eat lots of fruit and veg. but ...but..even dinner..now..i dont know..what the hell im doing.

[madder]

Taurushead, please don't worry so much about what you eat. I've read some of your other posts as well.

NO diet is going to stop you getting cancer, it's as simple as that. I'm not trying to scare you, just trying to put things into perspective. But if you eat healthily you will reduce your chances. Eat a wide variety of fruits and veggies, wholegrains etc. and do some exercise and you will be streets ahead of the majority of people healthwise.

Excessive worrying about what you eat is not good for you either ;)

Maybe you should stop reading all of these studies until you are more relaxed with food again. Many of the 'recommendations' about what to eat/what not to eat are based on very small sample sizes and they are not done very scientifically (IMO).

I hope this helps, and if it doesn't, please feel free to ignore my post or have it deleted.

[karenlovessnow]

Ok, calm down! :) What you need to do is eat a healthy balanced diet. I know, there is a lot of info out there and a lot of it is contradictory. Everyday it seems we are told, eat this, it's good for you, and then you turn around and hear that it isn't so good for you after all. I get a little confused myself, sometimes. I don't want to advocate eating sugar, but I've had a pretty strong sweet tooth my whole life (I'm 54) and no cancer yet (thank God - I believe in Him). Eat your fruits and veggies. There is such a thing as good carbs, the ones with the low glycemic index. They would be your beans/legumes/whole grains/nuts/seeds. It's definitely better if you stay away from the refined sugars, but having a piece of candy (not a whole box) or a cookie is not going to hurt you! Remember the words balanced and moderation and you will be just fine! :)

[missbelgium]

I am currently facing a real cancer threat of 1 in 10 (malignant lymphoma) because of an autoimmune condition I have developed. It's not a nice idea...

I have come to the following conclusion over the past few months: disease and it's origins have 3 aspects, genetic, environmental and emotional. There is only one aspect you have fair control over and it's the emotional. You can influence the environmental elements but not entirely, and we are so far not really able to manipulate the genetic side of things.

I also think that to become really sick, you have to be out of balance on at least 2 of the 3 counts. So if you are not genetically predisposed for getting serious illnesses at a young age and you are emotionally fairly well balanced, chances are small that your diet (if normally balanced) will cause anything to go wrong in your body.

Think. If what you fear is true, shouldn't all omnivores be dead by the age of 45 ? Yet many of them live to a ripe old age... So it's not just what you eat... there are other factors as well.

My basic rule is "everything in moderation". For me, and for various reasons, this excludes dead animals but I honestly think that you can be very healthy eating moderately of everything. Excess is bad for you, and this includes excessive worrying !

[taurushead]

wow. thankyou. so much.
i feel like im going insane. its like..almost phobiastyle insane, too. like it just hits, takes over logic and i just start LITERALLY SWEATING about making the right choices. and lately, end up not eating enough because i run out of what to have. like right now, i feel full and its almost bedtime but from all the ED recovery stuff i know today has not been enough food. but theres no food group i can have 'more' of. or something. or..i dont know.

you guys are all right and i read that stuff and i know that i should just quit ruining the life i have by freaking out about destroying it, but that realisation feels only temporary, you know? i dont know. i tried so hard this week and it was great!! but now..i dont know.
although your posts make lots of sense.
madder-> thats exactly what i want to do. stop reading. but then i feel like im wasting the technology people have developed and endangering myself when a little bit of research could have me being immaculate or something. i dont know. i dont even know what i think so i have no idea how anyone else could.sorry to be so annoying. i can HEAR it. because its not me. so i hear it and just go 'woah..what the hell? thats not rational' except its so hard to avoid.

karen-> really? thats good to know, about the sweet tooth. and its actually comments like that that made my dads bday the other night ACTUALLY FUN rather than like the last 40 or so bday parties ive been to where i didn't touch even the vegan stuff coz it was too sugary. and a life lived in fear is a life half lived, right? makes me want to go eat the crumpet my housemate made that i didn't want. but the thing is..then ill go to bed and freak out about it and its got to the point where even the taste of something just isn't worth the stress. if that makes sense? but im gonna change that. i am. although maybe not tonight, coz i really dont feel shaky or hungry the way you do when you haven't eaten enough(and sometimes when you have ;) . mustve been all the sitting around.

missb-> im really sorry that you're facing that fear. i definetely admire your opinion, also. i hope everything turns out well for you and i think im gonna really REALLY live by your approach. coz this just isn't working, y'know? :(

[rabid_child]

The problem is there is no one definitive answer for these questions. Research is constantly finding new answer, and new questions, about cancer. Very little is conclusively proven, most is just hypothesized with some research to back it up. It is extremely difficult to definitively prove causation.

Have you considered seeing a mental health professional about your anxiety problems?

[Diana]

Have you considered seeing a mental health professional about your anxiety problems?

That's the best advice so far in this thread. You've got a mental problem (don't be ashamed - anxiety like this is not rare!!!!) and if you manage to solve that, you'll stop worrying about things like this.

[taurushead]

i have, because i sort of am. the ED thing has faded away somewhat but im still meant to see someone for it. i think they sort of take the view of 'ok, well eat like a spartan, thats better than not at all' and aren't too bothered by the fact that IM bothered. or something along those lines.
and yep i hear you about the inconclusive. i take these studies as proof, coz..well..its science!! but if you look at the conclusion at each one they just say 'possible link between'...so really..its not as hard and fast as i thought.
last night i ended up eating cookies with housemate (who's finally home, hooray!!)..felt terrible. but im sure i wont die.
i can really see now, that the panic is getting more intense and over things that were previously 'ok'..so eventually ill be left with greens and only greens?!, that this is not being healthy and that i really do need to quit freaking out.
so thats what im going to do.
and i owe it to you brilliant VBers, i think :D

[codemonkey]

When you really sit down and think about it you KNOW what's good for you. Whole grains, fruits, veggies, beans, nuts and undeniably good for you. Refined grains and sugar, animal fat and artificial sweeteners and preservatives are bad for you. You don't need a dietician or nutritionist or doctor to tell you that. You just know. Just do your best to eat more of the good stuff and less (or none) of the bad stuff. It's nearly impossible to eat a perfect diet without obsessing about it constantly. Just do your best and don't stress about it.

[hoodedclawjen]

if you were going to get some help for the worrying- maybe think about trying to get some cognitive behavioural therapy. its good stuff- you get to learn how to break negative thought patterns. i can now catch myself being a bit excessive in my worrying/thinking, and go 'ooh, look, i'm doing it again, thats not remotely helpful or realistic thinking, i'm not doing this today, so i think i'll do something else instead'. its a really satisfying feeling to be more aware of, and in control of your feelings and thoughts, and not feel dragged through the mill by them all the time.

[taurushead]

HCJ - thats exactly what was recommended today:) and instead of being all 'no no, its fine, i can see i do it, therefore ill just control it on my own.' i actually agreed. eheheh.
and i just had a muffin for lunch. unbleached flour but far from wholegrain. sigh. here comes the guilt. but im shutting it up with cleaning. so behind in the cleaning...

this is completely do-able :)

[hoodedclawjen]

i'm so pleased for you that you're working on it! :) don't expect to get it all sorted right away, cos it's taken you time to get to here, and it'll take a while to get somewhere new in your thinking. and don't knock yourself for having little setbacks, cos thats all part of the trip.

i know its hard not to knock yourself if you're a perfectionist, but try and treat yourself with the kindness that you show others, cos you're just as worthy of it as them.

and take it one day at a time, and you'll get there :) if a whole day at a time is too much, its still cool to go for 10 minutes at a time, lol, they all add up!

[missbelgium]

take it one day at a time, and you'll get there if a whole day at a time is too much, its still cool to go for 10 minutes at a time, lol, they all add up!

this is my technique too when feeling overwhelmed and it has always worked for me... good luck !!

[taurushead]

H.J.C, missbelgium, thank you so much. seriously those kind words make a world of difference. because..because i KNOW its stupid.
y'know? its so frustrating.
and the trouble is..its like i have two demons fighting in the one head. And ive gotten control of one, the ED voice, so now i know i need more food tonight (even though im not hungry, sigh. id gotten back to eating massive amounts but in the last week, my appetite has hit a rock. its weird.) but i have no idea what to have.
there are white english muffins and cookies, both of which would bring the whole calorie thing up. but ive already had sugar stuff today so i dont want to do that. and so even though i know i should eat more and if i dont ill start losing weight again, i dont want to eat any of it. not the dairy, no more fat (ive had a lot of PB) , not the white stuff (i know, moderation, but i already had a huge blueberry muffin! and milo!! ) and not the sugar (muffin, milo ,AND a ricesyrup,ginger,rice and macadamia bar) and ive overloaded on the fibre with whole grains and vegies. so it seems like..unless i eat the yogurt or the sugary stuff or a toasted english muffin, ill just have to be content with being under. so its just annoying..that these days i dont WANT to be, i want to look a bit less gaunt, i have zero intention of cutting calories. but its just..happening, y'know? sigh.
and i haven't lost weight for ages. but just lately.
and the whole 'help' thing isn't til next week.
i have no idea what to do, even just tonight.
oi vey.
its ridiculous, thats my point. which is why i really appreciate such understanding.
i just dont follow..how everything was fine, then it was not, because i was cutting calories. then i got my head back, but now i dont want to and am anyway for the sake of health which i know wont be around if im eating like..not much. except it actually feels like quite a lot.
my mind...out the door...
i just ..want someone to tell me what to do. before i get the help. but nobody can . so i guess for tonight ill leave it at like 1400, which isn't such a small amount, its just coz i was maintaining on 2000 and all was a-ok, im kinda nervous to drop it. if that makes sense.
and..and....darnit. i just..i ...yeah. and the only reason i was counting is because i HAVE lost weight even with all the fat etc. , so i started counting again to make sure i was still eating enough.
OUWHGIEURGIEURG

[taurushead]

oh god. i just had a vanilla wafer. AND a buttered english muffin AND one weetbix. and NOW im hungry. must have like..kickstarted the appetite.
so much bad stuff. i dont know..i dont know.
and i could eat like..a tiny bit more and still survive...
do i go with the bleachy salty english muffin? do i go with the plain yogurt dairy?!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa. this was such an organised perfect night, and now its gone all..chaotic. i dont know what im doing. carbs and white stuff all over the place.

[taurushead]

DAMNIT. i went with the yogurt. the muffins are vegan, but white. and ive really overdone stuff like that.
the yogurt is like..high protein and all natural , no added sugar and whatever else.
but blech...dairy. my stomach was churning. im up to 1600 now. so full. and i feel horrible.
the boy is coming over at 10 30, and i was gonna feel all great, after an awesome dinner. i might as well have had the real dinner not just veggies and nuts, because ive eaten all this now anyway. and i didn't WANT it, i feel horrible. so guilty, so full of junk, and physically so full. i HATE THIS. and now i dont want him to come over either. sigh.
i just...oh god. i really just want this to stop. i could cry. seriously. i think im losing my MIND

[madder]

Take a deep breath and relax.

You have had a snack. Don't beat yourself up about it. That's not (by any stretch) a lot of food, or even 'bad' food.

If you're still hungry, eat some more.

And I think you probably should talk to somebody to help you deal with these issues. *hugs*

[taurushead]

i am. i have been .it sjust that the issues have shifted. from having gone away, to having morphed into something else.
i just hate how this is taking over what was an awesome day. and..how...i just...i can't do tonight now. i can't do anything, im like..paralysed by the fact that ive just eaten more than i felt like i needed AND poisoned myself.
even though i know..its not that bad once in a while. but i was already slacker than usual today. this WEEK in fact. and it was GREAT. why does it suck NOW?!
and the first time i was like 'nevermind. just dont think about it.' but now its wearing me down and id literally cry except our house is full of people and its not worth the shame.
everythings been so great. grrr.
and its just like i wouldve lost no matter what i did. not have eaten more? would've continued shrinking and being dominated by mysterious thoughts. eaten more? feel as **** as i do right now.
I .
WANT.
OUT.

im sorry to be so dramatic. i just literally can't stand this anymore. this isn't even such a bad night, its more just the end of a whole lot of 'nevermind' kind of moments.

[madder]

It'll be okay, really. I think you're just focussing on food too much (you haven't poisoned yourself, you've had some white flour and sugar).

Nobody is perfect all of the time, but you're doing really good :)

Don't worry about being dramatic, you're probably best to get it out rather than bottle it up.

[madder]

And please don't focus so much on the 'scientific studies' or other information you get on the internet. Or on 'good food' and 'bad food'. Remember the whole 'everything in moderation' thing.

[taurushead]

:smitten: madder,

ohhh the rational voice is so SO appreciated. i can't even explain.
i..yeah.

:smitten:

tomorrow, zero thought to the 'studies'. honestly.

xoxox

[missbelgium]

Hey, while we're at it, have you ever thought about who conducts these studies and who is paying for them... ?!! Yeah, I know you said zero thought to the studies, LOL. But seriously. I do not believe in non-biased entirely objective studies anymore. In this day and age, everything is about money. So if a bunch of drs or a lab is paid to "prove" that a+b = c, they'll concoct a study that will probably prove this exactly indeed. I am not saying they'll go as far as manipulating the data but the wording of the premisse alone can be so subtle that you could probably prove anything you wanted.
The days where printed/publicized word could be taken to be true and correct are over. Really !

[codemonkey]

Whatever you do, don't NOT eat! Just take it one meal at a time and just try to choose the best of what you have available to you.

[taurushead]

missb- disturbing but true!!

codemonkey- hooray for gir, seriously. so much love for that crazy little guy. in fact..im going to do the doom dance...
but also..yes, i know. woke up this morning, had my usual stuff, then when id normally come up here and check emails etc before leaving the house, couldn't coz i didn't wanna wake the boy, so was at a loss, and dying for sugar, but couldn't leave to buy apples or anything coz i had to be home to let in a painter SO..what did i do? ate 3 cookies. sigh. so white...soooo sugary. but its completely fine. it really is. i KNOW that. its not that its that much that early (although im definetely fighting rising panic. that kind thats really deep in your stomach. ugh.) its more like...'well now what will i eat for the rest of the day?!?! ive already had sat. fat and sugar.' type of thing.
but im not thinking about it. tra la la la..fingers in ears.
its only 11am ...
actually its 'already' 11am is more thes tatement i should be making. its time to get dressed. having people over drives me insane, throws off my healthy routine, i sleep in, i laze around, i cant STAND IT. but ...would i really want a completely scheduled life with no friends? no. so ill shut up now:)

[veggiebelly]

Stop reading the articles. I'm serious. I'm also a hypochondriac - my doctor forbade me from reading health stuff on the internet and I must say, I am much much better without them.

Worrying is very bad for your health. Eat good things, exercise, drink lots of water and get good sleep. And try to be HAPPY. These are the things that will keep you healthy.