Hey, all! I'm in college right now but I just recently moved into a house. So immediately I put in a garden.. I've been waiting to grow my own veggies since moving to school, so I'm really excited - but I just realized how completely clueless I am about the whole gardening thing!

My main problem is that I don't know how to keep certain bugs out of my garden that could ruin the very few veggies I have growing. My parents always used pesticides in their gardens, but I don't want to do that - both because of the environmental effects and because I really don't want to kill any of the bugs, just deter them.

I've heard that vegetable oil can be used to keep away certain bugs, and I found a site with some pretty strange advice on natural pesicides (like using urine... hm.). But I thought it might help to ask some of you who might have tried some of these things successfully.

Thanks!! :)

I don't believe in using pesticides in the garden at all. They aren't necessary. What works best is to allow the proper predator-prey relationships to develop and generally there won't be more than cosmetic damage.

Attracting beneficial insects:


http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/04-26/beneficial-insect-natural-pest-control-article.htm

I'm having a problem mostly with this one kind of worm in particular... I think it's called a cut worm? It's already cut two of my plant stalks completely off, and I really don't have that many plants so it was really sad to lose them. Is there no way to deter something like this or should I just plan for these sort of things to happen next time?

Thanks for the link :)

The best way to protect plants from cutworms is to make a little cardboard collar for each plant - toilet paper rolls or paper towel rolls work well for this, cut into short rounds. You can cut the collars to fit them around the plants then tape back together. Before you put them on, gently dig around the base of each plant to see if there's a cutworm hiding in the soil waiting for night to come out and cut down your plant.

If you have the room, it's safest to plant more than you need, because you'll almost certainly lose some plants before the produce makes it to your table.

Thank you very much for your advice! I'm going to try that today! :)

I agree with Ludi about pesticides
when used to solve one problem may cause another
action and reaction
all things in balance
they are a sign of the health of the plant's environment (soil, water,sun and air)
just as we humans live in a world full of parasites and parasitic energies not all of us are infested with parasites, because we are wise in treating our body like a garden sanctuary.. incidentally the brain is the metaphorical compost heap of the body
so nourish your garden and encourage balance and nature will take care of the rest

Thank you, Conrad. Wonderful words to live and garden by. :)

"I don't believe in using pesticides in the garden at all. They aren't necessary. What works best is to allow the proper predator-prey relationships to develop and generally there won't be more than cosmetic damage."

This simply isn't true. Any time you introduce a "monoculture" this can be as simple as planting a single bed of melons or a single bed of corn, or a single bed of turnips -- you tend to attract insects that adapt to this situation by becoming pests. The only way to prevent such insect pests is to not plant more than a few plants of a single kind, per every 100 square feet. Spread them out and intersperse with other plants. Create a more natural-like ecosystem. If you want to have a lot of melons -- you will need a lot of acres. And you will have to find other plants that produce food to place inbetween your ocasional melons. this gets very complicated and is certainly more difficult, and time-consuming than monoculture. And unles you have huge amounts of land, you will not be able to have large amounts of any one food item, for example to store thru the winter or can or whatever.

There you go again, soilman. Debating gardening. Now you're claiming I'm lying. Nice going.


"This simply isn't true."


What, that pesticides aren't necessary? Well, they aren't. I NEVER use them.

And I don't grow monocultures.

"Gaia's Garden" by Toby Hemenway describes how to plant polycultures which thwart insect pests. I'll take a photo of some of my polycultures and post them here in a day or two.

I grow all my vegetables, and plan to eventually grow all my basic food needs. Polycultures don't take up more room than monocultures, so it won't be a matter of space, though I do have biggish gardens. A person can grow all their calories and nutrition in 1000 square feet or so. It isn't necessary to plant this as monocultures.

:book:

Uhh.... I'm not quite sure what the difference is between the two 'cultures' you're both talking about? I guess polycultures are when the plants are grown in no particular order, rather than the tomatoes being with the tomatoes, etc...?

Since I have two people here who seem to know a lot about gardening :) could you tell me if you've seen a similar thing on your plants: I've been noticing tiny little almost-clear, pale green balls on my tomato plants. I thought at first that they might be caterpillar eggs, but now I'm noticing they're on my big tomato plant (the one that never had a caterpillar problem). Just thought someone might have seen these before... I don't have any idea how to look up "tiny little egg-like things" online, haha :)

Monoculture - just one plant species in a row, bed, field, etc

Polyculture - more than one plant species in a row, bed, field, etc.



Those green things? I'd say those are little eggs. :)

:wall: Yep, that's it all right. Where did the pic come from? I tried to look them up so I wouldn't have to bother anyone, but I couldn't figure out how to :) Do you know what kind of eggs they are?

Thank you! Thank you!

Monoculture - just one plant species in a row, bed, field, etc

Polyculture - more than one plant species in a row, bed, field, etc.


Oh, okay, cool! I just plant them all over the place anyway! Guess I have a crazy polyculture kind of garden going on! :dunce:

Those are tomato hornworm eggs.

buzzwords

permaculture

breeding for horizontal pest resistance

fukouka

rudolf steiner

quantum agriculture

the devas, nature spirits, et al

appropriate selection

companion planting

diversity

balance

unity

offerings

soil health

karma

" A person can grow all their calories and nutrition in 1000 square feet or so. It isn't necessary to plant this as monocultures."

Well, I think that would require planting lots of high-calorie per acre food like grains or potatoes. If you want lots of, say, canteloupes, to last you thru the cold season in a temperate climate (stored frozen), 1000 feet would just about be enough to keep you in a years worth of frozen canteloupe pieces, assuming you eat only 1 canteloupe's worth of pieces, a day. One year I had about 500 square feet planted in canteloupes, and I ran out of frozen canteloupe pieces in January. I did eat more than one per day in august when they were in season, and early september. And I had abuot 3.5 cu ft of frozen canteloupe. But I ran out of them in early January. And yues, I ate lots of other food, such as the tomatoes and edamame I grew, and had frozen. I had about 6 cu ft of frozen food total. All except the tomatoes, were eaten, by me alone, by early January. I also ate rice and potatoes that I bought, and lots of pita breads I bought, and avocadoes and tons of citrus fruit -- probably more citrus fruit than melons.

Oh, okay, cool! I just plant them all over the place anyway! Guess I have a crazy polyculture kind of garden going on! :dunce:


Fortunately polycultures don't have to be "polyclutters" (which is what I currently have).

I've attached a couple pics of Rosemary Verey's famous potager at Barnsley House, where polycultures are planted in very formal neat beds.

Thank you so much for all of your help, Ludi!
I've learned so much about gardening on this board so far - I definitely never expected to get so much great gardening advice on a veg*an board!

:bobo:

So they were eggs (I'd been holding out a shred of hope maybe they were something else).

And now there are more than TEN of the cutest little baby monster caterpillars on my tomato plant AGAIN. :wall: Their parents destroyed it the first time... and it was JUST starting to grow back and bud again. It's grown nearly two feet since the caterpillars got it the first time. I've never seen a more healthy, beautiful tomato plant in my life! They had to get that one instead of the ugly mess of a tomato plant growing six feet away from it .... guess that's why they like it, huh. Arrgggggg.

I can't kill them though... Live and learn I guess....

:cry:

I've always had very good luck interplanting marigolds and onions with my vegetables--both are supposed to keep away harmful pests, and I've never had a pest problem.

Horseradish is supposed to have similar qualities.

It's also helpful to plant plants that attract benefical insects, like lady bugs.

Ah, that's good news. I'm definitely planting onions next year. Mmm... I love horseradish but I never thought to grow it! I might do that also. I thought tomato plants attracted ladybugs? No?

I think from now on I'm just going to grow everything from seeds. I'm sure the cute little monsters came along with the plant when I bought it...