I know this is kind of random, but I just heard this little tidbit and thought it was really interesting.

My mom e-mailed me a link to a site that says that way back when, when cars were first becomming popular and just getting ready to be mass-produced, they were trying to decide between the two as fuel for automobiles: 1- gasoline, and 2 - vegetable oil! :vebo: Apparently the only reason gas beat out veggie oil was because at the time, gas was actually cheaper and more readily available.

A lot of you might already know this? I don't know. But it seems to me that this really needs to be put out there! I've talked to a lot of people about it and no one I talked to knew either. It seems like if we could get this info. out to everyone, they wouldn't think the idea of cars running on veggie oil is so ridiculous. A lot of my friends watch those corn-oil commercials and say things like, "How dumb. No one will go for that." They think oil is the way to go because that's what they're used to, but if they knew that the first car manufacturers had veggie oil listed right alongside gas, how can anyone deny it's a great idea?

Guess this turned out to be kind of long... Just wanted to get everyone else's take on this! :)

I think it's kinda cool that they can "recycle" the oil from restaurants. Granted, I don't think they could power the whole American fleet that way, but it's something.

It's interesting too, to drive by the big ol' buses running on the stuff and suddenly have a craving for french fries. :D

Veg oil doesn't contain the same energy density as petroleum, so you can't go as far on a gallon.

Veg oil production can't be scaled up to replace our need for petroleum because we use so darn much.

I'm concerned this push for biofuels will cause (as it is already causing) massive environmental damage and fool people into believing that we can continue our current way of life, rather than making the changes we will need to do to prepare for scarcer and more expensive petroleum.

I think we need to evolve past petrolium and coal based energy.

Solar/Wind/Hydrogen is the way to go!

Veg oil doesn't contain the same energy density as petroleum, so you can't go as far on a gallon. Veg oil production can't be scaled up to replace our need for petroleum because we use so darn much.

Good points... but since we know it's very possible and had been considered so long ago, why not use it alongside others? It has to be better than all the horrible things gas has caused over the years...?


I'm concerned this push for biofuels will cause (as it is already causing) massive environmental damage and fool people into believing that we can continue our current way of life, rather than making the changes we will need to do to prepare for scarcer and more expensive petroleum.

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I'm pretty sure it's far too late for that... We're already on a destructive path; why waste valuable resources when there are other options out there? Either way we're damaging everything around us. I don't think that's going to change... might as well damage at a slower pace and without so much waste...

I think we need to evolve past petrolium and coal based energy.

Solar/Wind/Hydrogen is the way to go!


Hm.. I'd love to know more about them, but from what I've looked into about solar and wind, they'd do quite a bit of environmental damage as well, and I haven't found anything that proves that even the two together would be enough to provide for how much we use. Do you have any websites about either one that I could check out that say something different?

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I'm pretty sure it's far too late for that... We're already on a destructive path; why waste valuable resources when there are other options out there? Either way we're damaging everything around us. I don't think that's going to change... might as well damage at a slower pace and without so much waste...

Biologists don't think it's "far too late" to be concerned about biodiversity. They agree that saving biodiversity is crucial to our own survival.

I don't know what you mean "damage at a slower pace." Biofuel plantations don't "damage at a slower pace." Have you read the thread about the extinction of the orangutans due to palm oil plantations? Palm oil is one of the things biofuel boosters are pushing. :no:

We need to change our way of life to one which requires much less in the way of liquid fuels and other energy. Solar, wind, etc can help provide us with a comfortable life but not in the way we currently live.

At my camp this enviromentalist guy came and talked to us about alternative options. He showed us pics of a whole house run on solar energy. Granted, it's rather expensive to build a house like that, but hopefully that will become more readily available. I'm hoping so, this whole pollution thing is scaring the crap out of me. I can't believe how fast everything is destructing. Makes me very sad.

Just random thoughts.

We need to change our way of life to one which requires much less in the way of liquid fuels and other energy. Solar, wind, etc can help provide us with a comfortable life but not in the way we currently live.


Yea, this is actually the reason I say that it seems to be too late. It's absolutely possible to use solar/wind/etc. energy efficiently without negatively impacting our environment too much, but I honestly can't see the majority of people in our society actually doing this. That's the problem - and why I don't see it as much of a possibility, at least not in the near future. No one wants to change their way of life if it inconveniences them in the least bit, until they think it's too late...

Yea, this is actually the reason I say that it seems to be too late. It's absolutely possible to use solar/wind/etc. energy efficiently without negatively impacting our environment too much, but I honestly can't see the majority of people in our society actually doing this. That's the problem - and why I don't see it as much of a possibility, at least not in the near future. No one wants to change their way of life if it inconveniences them in the least bit, until they think it's too late...

And this is why we need to work as hard as possible to get people to realize that this is urgent and essential. They'll get it at some point, it would just be nice if it was sooner rather than later.

Very true, Blaise. :)

I do tend to agree with you about people not wanting to change, but I don't think that means it's "too late" to change. Just unlikely enough people will change until they are forced to.

I'm trying to transition to a low energy way of life and it's quite a challenge because we are used to lots of cheap energy. But our electric rates almost doubled over the past year, so it's not so cheap anymore, giving us more incentive to cut back on our useage. But alternatives are so expensive compared to grid power (at least in the short term, the upfront cost), we're not able to do much in the way of alternative power. I bought 2 solar panels, but we haven't set them up to do any work yet. 2 solar panels can't do a whole heck of a lot, but boy howdy they were expensive!